Autopsy Rd 4 Blues beat Suns but it wasn't pretty

[JustaBattler]

They just had greenwood do as much as he could get away with at the stoppages and the umps weren't focusing on that area this week it seems so Crippa got held more and more.

What is more concerning is that setters started wing 50% of his bounce attendances. Thought it was clear he's no good there.... The highish pressure acts he has to me scream 2nd to the ball. Not actual pressure.

Should be played on ball but not good enough to replace Ed or fast/skilled enough to replace Walsh/Williams...so he is a rotation that Teague is trying to squeeze value out of by playing as a defensive wingman as much as an onballer and his wing time probably sees him too knackered to be effective in on ball minutes - so atm is a player who is very much second to the ball - and isn't enjoying the game at all.

Same as Dow a natural on-baller not good enough ( see above) who is being played as a forward - sans any of the developed skill set required to succeed there- two roles being asked of a player not developed enough to do so - and the MC hoping time will sort things out.

Martin/Fisher absences keeping him there for now - whilst Cuningham/Kennedy/Stocker/ etc are trying for same position(s)

 

[lily of laguna]

Where were the set plays?

Exactly, wasn't like we didn't know the match ups before game day.
We couldn't we have at least tried the old belt it forward and have a player running forward instead of rushing to the ruckman's feet?
It didn't have to be every contest but 3 or 4 a quarter would have got the ball in our forward 50 real quick.
Are our coaching unit/midfield players that set in their ways we couldn't adjust to suit the matchups?

 

[Aphrodite]

 

[murphster]

I read that Ramsay put his hand up in the 2nds and not Stocker so much. We lost to Box Hill Hawks in the nd convincingly but in poor in a performance Ramsay was a standout.
Hope he carries his good form into rnd.1, We need the youngsters want a game in the seniors and work hard to get it.

That’s the second week in a row Ramsay has put his hand up playing as a mid, which is after all where he made his draft bones in the second half of his u18 year, good contested ball winner and a really nice user, kicked 2 goals as well he’s a beauty, was a very good pick where we got him in the draft and another one like Philp that oozes resilience.

 

[El Topo]

Should be played on ball but not good enough to replace Ed or fast/skilled enough to replace Walsh/Williams...so he is a rotation that Teague is trying to squeeze value out of by playing as a defensive wingman as much as an onballer and his wing time probably sees him too knackered to be effective in on ball minutes - so atm is a player who is very much second to the ball - and isn't enjoying the game at all.

Same as Dow a natural on-baller not good enough ( see above) who is being played as a forward - sans any of the developed skill set required to succeed there- two roles being asked of a player not developed enough to do so - and the MC hoping time will sort things out.

Martin/Fisher absences keeping him there for now - whilst Cuningham/Kennedy/Stocker/ etc are trying for same position(s)

Given the pre draft comparisons to Patrick Dangerfield, the club made a big mistake in not introducing Dow through the forward line while he built his strength and fitness. Now he's in a position where he needs to adjust to the speed of the seniors, but also needs to round out his game outside of the centre bounce, all while overcoming a serious case of Post Bolton Stress Disorder.

It's difficult to think of a more poorly managed young player anywhere in the competition.

 

[Stephene]

thought it was a hard fought away win in difficult conditions with the oppo coming at us time and again and us being good enough to get the win...well done boys...now onto Port....

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Thanks for that - I do remember reading that somewhere too.

In terms of our poor balls skills on the night, the commentators kept mentioning the humidity as the reason. However, I recall a post earlier in this thread by someone who attended the game saying it was a perfect night for footy and the humidity actually shouldn't have been a factor. Did anyone else have any thoughts about this part?

It was clearly very slippery and the ball the same....

Commentators made mention of it frequently.

The Gold Coast, who train in it, were just as bad....perhaps conditions were far from perfect?

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Ugly win, but you have to learn to win ugly. Should have been 30+.
Still doesn't change some of the question marks around selection. I love Levi and have backed him many times in the past, but his form in the lead up to this game did NOT warrant selection. The hot and humid conditions did NOT warrant his selection. The fact that GC had massive concerns about the ruck position did NOT warrant his selection.
And at the end of the game, his performance probably proves that to be right, although it was admittedly not a great night for the big forwards, but that just kind of helps to prove the point. A smaller, more mobile line-up probably would have been better. Either let Pitto ruck the whole game, or let Jones and Harry give him a chop out in their respective arcs. The fact that Cripps and Curnow even contested some ruck contests shows that even Silvagni could have helped out.
Anyway, on to the next one. Hopefully we can take it up to Port like we did last year.

 

[Dunna Heartknee]

Given the pre draft comparisons to Patrick Dangerfield, the club made a big mistake in not introducing Dow through the forward line while he built his strength and fitness. Now he's in a position where he needs to adjust to the speed of the seniors, but also needs to round out his game outside of the centre bounce, all while overcoming a serious case of Post Bolton Stress Disorder.

It's difficult to think of a more poorly managed young player anywhere in the competition.

We've all got PBSD
It's bloody painfull Isn't it.

 

[JustaBattler]

Given the pre draft comparisons to Patrick Dangerfield, the club made a big mistake in not introducing Dow through the forward line while he built his strength and fitness. Now he's in a position where he needs to adjust to the speed of the seniors, but also needs to round out his game outside of the centre bounce, all while overcoming a serious case of Post Bolton Stress Disorder.

It's difficult to think of a more poorly managed young player anywhere in the competition.

We are only now in the position of having our own VFL team and a list with enough young draftees worth developing. I think we all forget just what a basket case Carlton was compared to most other teams - only a few years ago.

COVID has also put a huge stop on reserves development last year and the impacts are still being felt- with reduced CLub spend allownace etc....

Carlton has had to also make some hard deciiosns on where to spend money in trades - Martin/McGovern/Williams/Saad are all significant and when on field all make the tream better- a fit Martin/Fisher would probably see Dow out of the side and working on his craft in VFL a fit Newman might see more midfield or forward time for SPS etc etc

this is why I really dont care much about the whole draft thing - it is development that matters not high draft picks- we got lucky with Weitering and Walsh - but the odds were very much our way with both.

 

[Broadside]

This is also (BTW) why I don't like games like Supercoach. Statistical dominance can be manipulated by role.

Tuohy's difference in stats between his career at Carlton and Geelong can be completely explained by the change in his role. At Carlton, he sat behind Doc and Simpson as a rebounding defender, and had to play with a more defensive mindset; at Geelong, he played in Simpson's role, and they actively looked to get the ball into his hands as they exited back 50.

He averaged 5 possessions more a game, and people bemoaned another player 'coming into their own' away from Carlton.

Tuohy always had an elite kick, it didn't take a rocket surgeon to know he could be used better, even Brad Chris Scott figured it out!

 

[Gethelred]

Tuohy always had an elite kick, it didn't take a rocket surgeon to know he could be used better, even Brad Chris Scott figured it out!

Sure. Don't know what that has to do with what I'm saying; that statistical dominance on a footy field is almost always coach driven.

Liam Jones looks like a million bucks in dry conditions because he's the nominated player. In his absence, it'd be Weitering, or McGovern, or Doc, or Levi; in fact, it's been Doc and Levi and Jacob before. Tuohy looked improved in Geelong's setup because he was playing the role Doc did in our jumper.

AFL's a team sport; you genuinely need the lesser lights to allow a player like Dusty to shine. The establishment and the media's obnoxious obeisance towards individuals and individual brilliance ignores this.

 

[jezzajay]

Thanks for that - I do remember reading that somewhere too.

In terms of our poor balls skills on the night, the commentators kept mentioning the humidity as the reason. However, I recall a post earlier in this thread by someone who attended the game saying it was a perfect night for footy and the humidity actually shouldn't have been a factor. Did anyone else have any thoughts about this part?

I was at the game...was hot and sweaty...humidity was a real factor.
I had a kick with some kids on the Suns practice oval before the game...ball was dewy and slippery then(let alone the sweat), made comment with one of the kids dads it could be a sloppy game.

Felt like the longest game I’ve ever been too...half way through the third quarter I was feeling for the players as you could see it was getting to them. Absolute dour affair. Slog!!
The fumbles explains a lot. Not a great night conditions wise for the forwards so gotta cut them some slack.
Ball was bouncing around a bit like a pinball...

In saying that it was awesome to be back at a game and amongst fellow bluebaggers. No doubt we out numbered the Suns supporters.
Was interesting overhearing a turncoat ex magpies supporter explain why he switched to the Suns as a supporter...his mates (Carlton supporters) got stuck right into him...hilarious!!

 

[jj1978]

Just watching Dee's v Cats...
wish we had of hired Mark Williams as an assistant. He's a tactical genius and a kicking master coach.....
CB

We could of offered him more $$$ than Teague to come be the assistant, he wouldn't as he hates the Blues. But he did convince Shiel to go to *, so he did us a huge favour!

 

[MileHigh]

Dow by hand is elite. He has learnt what his limitations are with kicking and is doing just what he needs to do which is chop in hard, get the ball and find a player on the move.

 

[Stamos]

Coaches' Votes

6 - Sam Docherty

15

Sam Docherty

Age

30

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.3

5star

K

15.1

5star

HB

7.2

4star

M

6.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

CL

1.1

3star

D

22.6

5star

K

16.0

5star

HB

6.6

4star

M

7.0

5star

T

0.6

1star

CL

0.4

3star

D

11.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.4

4star

CL

0.6

3star

(CARL)
5 - Jacob Weitering

23

Jacob Weitering

Age

26

Ht

195cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.8

4star

K

9.1

4star

HB

4.7

3star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.3

3star

MG

189.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

16.8

4star

K

10.8

4star

HB

6.0

4star

M

6.0

5star

T

0.8

3star

MG

263.4

4star

(CARL)
5 - Ed Curnow (CARL)
4 - Liam Jones

19

Liam Jones

Age

33

Ht

199cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

134.5

2star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.1

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.4

2star

MG

116.3

2star

D

9.4

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

(CARL)
4 - Hugh Greenwood (GCFC)
3 - Jack Bowes (GCFC)
2 - Touk Miller (GCFC)
1 - Samuel Walsh (CARL)

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Pitt had 56 hitouts and 18 to advantage, which is pretty good, but if you analysed it further there would have probably been 18 to disadvantage and 20 that were to neither sides advantage.

So in short it was pretty much a random outcome from ball ups/throw ins

In the very good analysis of the centre bounces it would be good to comment on the outcome -scoring shot, stoppage I50 or turnover. there is really no much point getting a centre clearance if it results in a turnover 100% of the time

The boundary umpires didn’t help, struggled to get it halfway to the normal contest point when throwing it in on so many occasions I lost count, must have been the Eleni/Williamson boundary ump equivalents. NFI at all


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Gethelred]

It really is a bit of a shame that Touk Miller

11

Touk Miller

Age

28

Ht

178cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.7

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

12.3

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

5.4

5star

CL

4.2

5star

D

22.0

5star

K

11.4

4star

HB

10.6

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.8

5star

CL

4.1

5star

D

17.8

5star

K

5.8

3star

HB

12.0

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.0

5star

got stuck up there. He's a gun, a dedicated clubman, and he'd be much more highly regarded if he played for any other club.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

I am not. I hate playing gcs up there. We rarely beat them

Really ? I believe we have only lost to them twice up there (including once in the last 30 seconds of the game)
We have a better record against the Suns at Metricon than we do in Melbourne/Marvel for some odd reason.

 

[Gethelred]

The boundary umpires didn’t help, struggled to get it halfway to the normal contest point when throwing it in on so many occasions I lost count, must have been the Eleni/Williamson boundary ump equivalents. NFI at all


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

The throwins were shallow sure, but I think that worked to our favour more than it did theirs.

 

[HarryFlashman]

Just goes to show the ruck is the most over rated position on the ground.

Unless they can take marks and impact play around ground they are fairly useless.

This is why we do desperately need TDK back. Has the athleticism to take marks and kick goals.

Pure tap ruck work is just so overated

Until u need the clearance & they knock it down the throat of mid or forward & it results in a shot at goal You’re right, but they are kinda handy at times

 

[Arr0w]

Coaches' Votes

6 - Sam Docherty (CARL)
5 - Jacob Weitering (CARL)
5 - Ed Curnow (CARL)
4 - Liam Jones (CARL)
4 - Hugh Greenwood (GCFC)
3 - Jack Bowes (GCFC)
2 - Touk Miller (GCFC)
1 - Samuel Walsh (CARL)

Incredible spread, 8 different players getting votes

 

[F_therest]

Really ? I believe we have only lost to them twice up there (including once in the last 30 seconds of the game)
We have a better record against the Suns at Metricon than we do in Melbourne/Marvel for some odd reason.

Its because we've played at metricon at night where its slippery and we actually excel in the wet. We have some big bodies, we can lock the ball in our forward half easier and jones/weitering types dominate.

At marvel its dry and fast and we get exposed by speed and quick ball movement.

 

[Gethelred]

Incredible spread, 8 different players getting votes

Kind of represents the evenness of the game, given that we didn't kick clear when we had the opportunity.

 

[Ken Navies]

We could of offered him more $$$ than Teague to come be the assistant, he wouldn't as he hates the Blues. But he did convince Shiel to go to *, so he did us a huge favour!

Really hope we’re going hard at Leppitsch. Would be perfect for us.