Autopsy Rd 5 BELTED! Power turns the Blues lights out

[ItsAllAboutMe]

The media pile on today in both Hsun & The Age is completely over the top. We were outplayed by one of the premiership contenders and lost by 30 points. Hardly a hangable offence. We rightfully deserved a wack after the Collingwood game, but this is just pure click bait knowing our fans will bite.

 

[Coops93]

The media pile on today in both Hsun & The Age is completely over the top. We were outplayed by one of the premiership contenders and lost by 30 points. Hardly a hangable offence. We rightfully deserved a wack after the Collingwood game, but this is just pure click bait knowing our fans will bite.

28 points was flattering with a couple goals in junk time and we all know it.

It was closer to a 40-50 point loss.

 

[sparkyblue]

Rarely do I agree with most pundits, but I agree with all of the media whacks I've read/heard in the last 24 hours. The questions re: development, softness, Cripps, etc are all on the mark and must be addressed by the club. Even Kane fricken Cornes has our number...

 

[Countryblueswitnotattoos]

The problem is we are too predictable when we go forward, we do not kick to a lead, we do not try to separate the backman with multiple leads. We kick to a contest where the opposition stack numbers to out number our small forwards and win the ball back easily. Our small forwards needs space to cause damage and they don't have it which is why most of our small forward goals are always very difficult shots. Betts is great 1 v1 not 1v 3, we are our own worst enemy.

I agree. The behind-the-goals vision of the game will be damning. Hinkley put on a master class in how to beat us and as others have said, Port didn't need to leave second gear. The effort was there, but our avenues were constantly blocked and Port were able to find space over and over again, leading to confusion, poor decision making and skill errors. Kudos to Hinkley. All I can say is - I hope Teague is a quick learner and humble enough to review the vision and admit the game plan and match day tactics were the reason we were rolled so easily. If not, this will be a long season and he will not be there at the end of it.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Williams can't run. Not fit enough.

For $750k - he can get fit during match day!!!!!!

 

[katmanblue]

I haven't seen much JSOS criticism, especially this year.

Then again, half our supporters still think we're not far off it either...

I think a few things need to click. One thing starting to work often makes everything else easier.

It might only be the mid/fwd connection that improves but that will have big effect across the whole team.

Or it might be better ball movement/retention.

Most of it come down to trust. The players dont trust each other.

 

[katmanblue]

join the dots....

.... = ____

 

[FRUMPY]

The amount of posters saying

"It was only 28 points and they are a premiership contender"

Makes me very, very sick.

We've been so bad for so long we just expect to lose as a supporter base now. Its just so sad

Sounds like the round one game most years - its 'we only lost by 4 goals' forgetting the fact we were down by 8-10 goals before they took the foot off the pedal.

 

[Gethelred]

If you can't work out the thrust of the comment, more fool you.

We were never in the contest, Port went in 2nd gear, join the dots....

I don't know what to tell you, other than that I deal with reality, and in reality we lost by 28 points. Not 40, not 80.

And the kind of grovelling, self-injuring bullshit you're wallowing in isn't for me.

 

[Earls Smother]

Here’s my theory: too much ‘almost’ going on at our club. It’s taking players away from their strengths and causing them to lose confidence.

Cripps is ‘almost’ the best player isn’t he comp. He’s fantastic as a ball winner. He’s trying to run and break lines, and doing it badly. He’s trying to push forward but can’t mark or kick. Needs to get back to playing 95% of his time midfield and get back to ‘just’ being a contested beast who feeds others

Docherty is ‘almost’ back to his AA role of floating loosely in the backline, intercepting and creating. Except his timing and confidence are out, he’s lost a step of pace and an ounce of courage, and it’s killing us. Oh, and SPS and Saad are doing similar things and it’s overkill. Docherty needs to just get back to defending well first...

Zac Williams is ‘almost’ an A grade midfielder, but he’s not there in any aspect of his game. He IS the top shelf defender we need, and could probably play wing too...

Murphy and Betts are ‘almost’ still able to do it. They’re hidden in the forward line so what does it matter if they can’t go any more if it keeps a few of the boys happy? Except we can’t have two almost guys on the one line, surely?

McGovern, Martin and Saad - all classic ‘almost’ guys we paid as if they were over the line. All 3 look stunning at times, but have their flaws, and there’s a LOT of just hoping they’ll find that switch that makes them healthy, consistent, and a match winner. Might be a bit harsh on Saad (his almost us disposal and decision making when he’s run off half-back) I guess, but he’s ‘almost’ the best HB in the league

McKay -‘almost a superstar’. But he quits on plays and goes to ground too often, and has poor timing on his leads.

SPS is almost a good hbf, but isn’t the most natural defender and has a Clanger tendency that hurts there too much.

Lm has It’s no surprise that I come away from these games incredibly frsutrated as we ‘almost’ compete with top teams. We matched Port for contested possessions, tackles, inside 50s, etc but got smashed overall.

It’s also no surprise that the players who I come away happy with are guys just playing their role, where we’re not trying to ‘almost’ them. Plowman, Ed Curnow, Jones, Casboult, Newnes, Pittonet: we know what they are, we give them their job, and they do it. We aren’t trying to play Pittonet as a forward; Plowman gets killed when for some reason we play him on resting midfielders like Martin and Gray but is otherwise rock solid, etc.

Note: we have been here before and it’s a trend. Weitering was almost ruined by being played forward in his second year. Dow has been ruined by trying to turn an accumulating mid into a forward. Cuningham and Fisher the same. We tried to make Walsh a wing last year and while he was fine enough, he’s AA calibre as a mid.

There’s a version of our team that just grows in confidence and starts winning these games imo: something like:

- Williams to the backline and into the primary small defender role. Plowman the third tall but never the extra small. Docherty more defensive, Saad run.

- Stabilise the midfield: Cripps (distributor), Curnow (stopper), Walsh (versatile) with SPS (versatile) and two of Dow/Cuningham/Stocker/Setterfield inside. Newnes, Cottrell OR Murphy, and then SPS/Cuningham/Walsh having some outside sets. Most of these guys play 90%+ of their game time midfield.

- Forward line of Fogarty, Gibbons, Cottrell or Murphy, McKay/McGivern/Casboult and then at some point Fisher/Martin forward. Again, just 7 guys (add Newnes or Cuningham now if needed) who basically play forward. None of this pinch hitting forward. All the stalls tackle hard and chase. All the talls can compete in the air.

Basically - just simplify roles, stop trying to make guys versatile and something they aren’t, stop hoping 26 year old blokes who are good/solid will become superstars and focus on getting the basics right. If we do that I honestly think we have the best depth in the league, top end talent on every line and would be a premiership threat THIS year.

Of all the posts I've read, this is the one I want to most believe is accurate. If we are "almost" there, then there is still hope that we have got the rebuild right.

Like most on here, we have spent the past 6 years patiently waiting for "it" to click. We entered this year with renewed hope it was about to happen. We've won 2 games we should have and were honourable in defeat against Tiges. BUT, every time we have one of these games that we want to feel will really show us that we have genuinely improved (Pies and Port), we feel let down. Hence the understandable disappointment levels.

The "almost" syndrome that you refer to is a lot more palatable than the alternative - that SOS has got a lot of high picks and trades wrong and we are in for more years of painful rebuilding/resetting/reshuffling/resigning ourselves to mediocrity.

I reckon we sent a lot of banged up players into that contest because of the lack of options due to injury. Cripps is not right, Saad, Casboult and Williams are sore, Newnes has to be struggling given some of his efforts. Whether the heat at Metricon was a general factor in our lack of sharpness - Gold Coast were completely uncompetitive against the Dogs when the game was alive.

If you add to your "almosts" some (or optimistically all) of the following: Charlie, TDK, Carroll, Durdin, Kemp, Ramsay, Philp, then we can stay positive. At least for another week.

 

[17SetMeFree]

And.....

he offered to play CHF if needed...

 

[17SetMeFree]

For $750k - he can get fit during match day!!!!!!

The concerning thing is, fitness, injuries and recovery.
IGAF for reputations of personnel, if you can't deliver, get TFO.

other clubs, their players are just bigger through the core, legs and shoulders
Fogarty, fringe player and geelong, looks like a powerhouse.

when we play the power game (round 1) hard running, hard tackling, it seems we can't get up the following week.
incidentally , IMO round 1 was our best game, even though it was a loss

 

[JustaBattler]

Teagues game plan is / was get ball to forward line ASAP and lock it in and play the territory game for repeat entries - simple as that. In answer to the turnovers which hurt on rebound between the arcs - the remedy proposed was a more tempo approach - minimising the physical ask on players in transition and allowing for proper behind-the-ball structures. the tempo football requires a level of kicking skill and drilling - that is probably not there.



Against Richmond Carlton was able to move the ball extremely efficiently and was able to lock it in for a territorial win for a good part of the game - Richmond were able to win the game by dominating for longer periods - illustrated by their 75 entries.
Against Collingwood the midfield transition was stymied - Collingwood successfully blocked fastball movement and used faster forwards to score in a much more open forward line for them.
Against Fremantle the midfield transition was pretty much evens
Against Suns Carlton was able to fall over the line in a very unconvincing display - apart from the last quarter which was a dominant performance by Carlton
Against Port the midfield transition was absolutely non existant and forward defensive pressure - non existent

the question is what did Port do to be able to so comprehensively stop any sort of quick or effective transition between back half and forwards?

That is the game plan V opposition score.

the answer is that Levi/Harry/McGovern were in the main totally shut out of the game and crumbing ability was pretty much non existant - but why was the Carlton midfield so easily beaten on the defensive side of the game? The answer is Ports midfield was stronger and more skilled compared to Carlton's.

Even so - the facts say that Carlton's extremely poor conversion rates in forward line was the single biggest explanatory factor in points differential between the two sides. Whilst Port were able to have an extremely accurate game on goal - Carlton had an extremely inaccurate game on goal. When one side struggles with transition and has to run harder for longer each way because of significant skill differentials- the forwards have to be able to make the most of their opportunities to be competitive - too many players missed too many set shots that Port were kicking at the other end - simple as that.

We now have Martin | Fisher and SOJ out of the forward line - all these players are important to scoring ability and also forward pressure.

At the same time it is pretty clear that the through the middle run caper - something that worked extremely well in the first two games- has been not on - because Saad the primary exponent is obviously playing at less than 100% fitness.

Switching ball movement another positive factor on display in the first two games has now disapeared.

Teague has lost both rebound run capability and forward pressure capability - against a fully manned Port in good form - it was always going to be a slog.

People don't like 'excuses' and label facts with pejorative exclamations - but Teague is in the middle of a perfect storm as far as game day options go due to the unavailability of key elements in the side - a developing middling side needs all its best on ground to beat a genuine contender.

When everything is clicking for one team and everything is clunking for the other- the look of the game is ugly for one side.

Disappointing to lose a game and look as ordinary as we did for sure - but I don't take too much out of the expected result - except that set shot kicks need working on - and this has been a constant for a long time now.

 

[Stamos]

I agree. The behind-the-goals vision of the game will be damning. Hinkley put on a master class in how to beat us and as others have said, Port didn't need to leave second gear. The effort was there, but our avenues were constantly blocked and Port were able to find space over and over again, leading to confusion, poor decision making and skill errors. Kudos to Hinkley. All I can say is - I hope Teague is a quick learner and humble enough to review the vision and admit the game plan and match day tactics were the reason we were rolled so easily. If not, this will be a long season and he will not be there at the end of it.

Hasn't seemed to have learnt from the Collingwood game...

 

[Stamos]

I don't know what to tell you, other than that I deal with reality, and in reality we lost by 28 points. Not 40, not 80.

And the kind of grovelling, self-injuring bullshit you're wallowing in isn't for me.

Sure we lost by 28, but that margin flattered us significantly.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

One could say, getting back to basics is the small forwards have one job. When the ball goes to talls, the small try their hardest to follow the main tall target so when there is no mark they are their at the drop to lock it in.

Is it as effective as a lead from a small? Not at all, but it rolling up sleeves and going blue collar method. You need to walk before you can run. Locking in the ball had been disastrous and we are 18th on the ladder for this.

Forget top 8 if this goes out the window for opposition going coast to coast.

The average non existent one on one pressure in allowing oppo defenders too much latitude by simply not covering the loose outlets through a lack of accountability, our forward press is extremely poor we don’t get up far or quick enough to help contain and stifle oppo movement, we stand in no mans land when zoning guarding useless space contributing to your chances of providing little impact on general play and when they are in possession...
While I’m venting my other complaint is our ball transition, it’s average, lacking variety & method, no quick movement up through the middle of the ground we tend just to go wide and up the wing with kick outs or in general play, easily missed goals, poor turnovers and decision making are continuously hurting us sure but we still are lacking a sustainable brand of football atm we have holes in our methods and gamestyle all across the board...

 

[Sector 7G]

Teagues game plan is / was get ball to forward line ASAP and lock it in and play the territory game for repeat entries - simple as that. In answer to the turnovers which hurt on rebound between the arcs - the remedy proposed was a more tempo approach - minimising the physical ask on players in transition and allowing for proper behind-the-ball structures. the tempo football requires a level of kicking skill and drilling - that is probably not there.



Against Richmond Carlton was able to move the ball extremely efficiently and was able to lock it in for a territorial win for a good part of the game - Richmond were able to win the game by dominating for longer periods - illustrated by their 75 entries.
Against Collingwood the midfield transition was stymied - Collingwood successfully blocked fastball movement and used faster forwards to score in a much more open forward line for them.
Against Fremantle the midfield transition was pretty much evens
Against Suns Carlton was able to fall over the line in a very unconvincing display - apart from the last quarter which was a dominant performance by Carlton
Against Port the midfield transition was absolutely non existant and forward defensive pressure - non existent

the question is what did Port do to be able to so comprehensively stop any sort of quick or effective transition between back half and forwards?

That is the game plan V opposition score.

the answer is that Levi/Harry/McGovern were in the main totally shut out of the game and crumbing ability was pretty much non existant - but why was the Carlton midfield so easily beaten on the defensive side of the game? The answer is Ports midfield was stronger and more skilled compared to Carlton's.

Even so - the facts say that Carlton's extremely poor conversion rates in forward line was the single biggest explanatory factor in points differential between the two sides. Whilst Port were able to have an extremely accurate game on goal - Carlton had an extremely inaccurate game on goal. When one side struggles with transition and has to run harder for longer each way because of significant skill differentials- the forwards have to be able to make the most of their opportunities to be competitive - too many players missed too many set shots that Port were kicking at the other end - simple as that.

We now have Martin | Fisher and SOJ out of the forward line - all these players are important to scoring ability and also forward pressure.

At the same time it is pretty clear that the through the middle run caper - something that worked extremely well in the first two games- has been not on - because Saad the primary exponent is obviously playing at less than 100% fitness.

Switching ball movement another positive factor on display in the first two games has now disapeared.

Teague has lost both rebound run capability and forward pressure capability - against a fully manned Port in good form - it was always going to be a slog.

People don't like 'excuses' and label facts with pejorative exclamations - but Teague is in the middle of a perfect storm as far as game day options go due to the unavailability of key elements in the side - a developing middling side needs all its best on ground to beat a genuine contender.

When everything is clicking for one team and everything is clunking for the other- the look of the game is ugly for one side.

Disappointing to lose a game and look as ordinary as we did for sure - but I don't take too much out of the expected result - except that set shot kicks need working on - and this has been a constant for a long time now.

Good summary. Only other thing I would add is that our tall defenders were unable to intercept mark as they had in other games and their 3rd tall in Marshall had a mismatch that allowed them to set up forward entries and put our defence on the back foot.

 

[Gethelred]

Sure we lost by 28, but that margin flattered us significantly.

Did I say it didn't?

I have been told - by our very own Michael Jezz, no less - that I need to look at results. I have been told for years that looking at the why is providing excuses, reasons why we have not been successful, as though I personally have influence over what the club chooses to do with its football department or list management. I have been told that it's sick to point out the fact that we lost by 28 points, in this very thread.

We. Lost. The. Game. That's the reality. We lost the game by 28 points, in what was the third smallest margin of the round. Results are blowing out this year; you had a 2 point loss, a 27 point loss, then us; everyone else lost by way more. We've played this year the team that came top of the ladder last season and the premier for two of our 3 losses, with the other being to a team which came sixth last season regardless of how disappointing it was.

Tell me what part of what I am saying is not fact.

I am getting rather tired of being told to think something, say something. Adhere to the groupthink of spiraling negativity on here. I'm getting sick of the perennial bipolar nature of this board, because either we're a smokey for top 4 one week or it's '25 years of failure' the next.

 

[17SetMeFree]

Hasn't seemed to have learnt from the Collingwood game...

one thing that was glaring for me was, an inability or lack of confidence, fitness to break lines and formation resets of opposition
since the Richmond game. Our boys did reset well in turnover situations in that game.
That went missing in the remaining games. The forward entries in the port game, were just dumb, over and over again, same delivery
and same exit out for them. No deliberate bringing the ball to the ground, all trying to pack mark in low percentage situations, mostly on the fat side
I also noticed, many players walking after losing the ball / turnover. Cripps was the worst defender. Its almost as that part of his game has left him .

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

I agree. The behind-the-goals vision of the game will be damning. Hinkley put on a master class in how to beat us and as others have said, Port didn't need to leave second gear. The effort was there, but our avenues were constantly blocked and Port were able to find space over and over again, leading to confusion, poor decision making and skill errors. Kudos to Hinkley. All I can say is - I hope Teague is a quick learner and humble enough to review the vision and admit the game plan and match day tactics were the reason we were rolled so easily. If not, this will be a long season and he will not be there at the end of it.

If both teams had of kicked straight - so including Port - we would have comfortably won.

Imagine Port without Gray, Rosee, Dickson, Amon Wines, Boak - ok - now you have Carltons team with injuries. I blows my mind that people are unable to see the effect of having 2/3rds of your best forwards out - plus 2-3 of your midfielders out does to the team.

People are seriously expecting Carlton to go from 11th to beating the 2020 and 2021 Premiers - with half their best team out (easily top ten) - with complete melts about it.

We outscored them, totally dominated in 2 quarters and they had some ridiculous lucky plays and decisions go FOR them and against us.

That team on Saturday night would have beaten almost every other team in the league.

Seriously reminding me of the sacking of Ratten - team had 17 of their starting list out injured when he was sacked - absolutely no idea on this forum sometimes.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

Teagues game plan is / was get ball to forward line ASAP and lock it in and play the territory game for repeat entries - simple as that. In answer to the turnovers which hurt on rebound between the arcs - the remedy proposed was a more tempo approach - minimising the physical ask on players in transition and allowing for proper behind-the-ball structures. the tempo football requires a level of kicking skill and drilling - that is probably not there.



Against Richmond Carlton was able to move the ball extremely efficiently and was able to lock it in for a territorial win for a good part of the game - Richmond were able to win the game by dominating for longer periods - illustrated by their 75 entries.
Against Collingwood the midfield transition was stymied - Collingwood successfully blocked fastball movement and used faster forwards to score in a much more open forward line for them.
Against Fremantle the midfield transition was pretty much evens
Against Suns Carlton was able to fall over the line in a very unconvincing display - apart from the last quarter which was a dominant performance by Carlton
Against Port the midfield transition was absolutely non existant and forward defensive pressure - non existent

the question is what did Port do to be able to so comprehensively stop any sort of quick or effective transition between back half and forwards?

That is the game plan V opposition score.

the answer is that Levi/Harry/McGovern were in the main totally shut out of the game and crumbing ability was pretty much non existant - but why was the Carlton midfield so easily beaten on the defensive side of the game? The answer is Ports midfield was stronger and more skilled compared to Carlton's.

Even so - the facts say that Carlton's extremely poor conversion rates in forward line was the single biggest explanatory factor in points differential between the two sides. Whilst Port were able to have an extremely accurate game on goal - Carlton had an extremely inaccurate game on goal. When one side struggles with transition and has to run harder for longer each way because of significant skill differentials- the forwards have to be able to make the most of their opportunities to be competitive - too many players missed too many set shots that Port were kicking at the other end - simple as that.

We now have Martin | Fisher and SOJ out of the forward line - all these players are important to scoring ability and also forward pressure.

At the same time it is pretty clear that the through the middle run caper - something that worked extremely well in the first two games- has been not on - because Saad the primary exponent is obviously playing at less than 100% fitness.

Switching ball movement another positive factor on display in the first two games has now disapeared.

Teague has lost both rebound run capability and forward pressure capability - against a fully manned Port in good form - it was always going to be a slog.

People don't like 'excuses' and label facts with pejorative exclamations - but Teague is in the middle of a perfect storm as far as game day options go due to the unavailability of key elements in the side - a developing middling side needs all its best on ground to beat a genuine contender.

When everything is clicking for one team and everything is clunking for the other- the look of the game is ugly for one side.

Disappointing to lose a game and look as ordinary as we did for sure - but I don't take too much out of the expected result - except that set shot kicks need working on - and this has been a constant for a long time now.

Last quarter was exactly as you describe - locked in our half for 20+ minutes. We would have won in the last quarter but for incredibly poor kicking at goal - this is what is freaking me out about this post match melt down. How many people have re-watched the game.? Very few I suspect.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

28 points was flattering with a couple goals in junk time and we all know it.

It was closer to a 40-50 point loss.

Not one Carlton fan is disagreeing, however when Saints lost by 90 points, Suns by 62, Bombers by 57, Hawks 49 & North are 0-5.. For the focus to be on Carlton is ridiculous.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

Sure we lost by 28, but that margin flattered us significantly.

We played really well and it reflected the poor kicking for goal. Port had 2 x 10 minute patches that tore the game open. Straight kicking (even for both teams) Carlton would have won - and that would have been the upset of the entire season.

 

[Coops93]

Not one Carlton fan is disagreeing, however when Saints lost by 90 points, Suns by 62, Bombers by 57, Hawks 49 & North are 0-5.. For the focus to be on Carlton is ridiculous.

Carlton invited this pressure when they publicly announced we expect to play finals.

Focus has been on the Saints a fair bit as well as the Bombers and people have been calling for Buckleys job for a few weeks already. It's not like the focus is solely on Carlton at all.

 

[Poorman53]

We played really well and it reflected the poor kicking for goal. Port had 2 x 10 minute patches that tore the game open. Straight kicking (even for both teams) Carlton would have won - and that would have been the upset of the entire season.