Autopsy Rd 5 BELTED! Power turns the Blues lights out

[FRUMPY]

Flick on SEN it is Carlton fans driving the discussion. Everyone is sounding extremely frustrated.

Nuffies love to be frustrated and vent. Nuffies call radio stations

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[Poorman53]

I can understand your thinking and love your optimism. Just curious - Did you watch the game on TV or were you at the ground?

I was there, and from my eye, it was an absolute thrashing. Forget about the scoring shots and inside 50s for a moment. Think about this - how often did we kick to an outnumbered contest? How often did Port have players in space? The difference was stark.

Our players were caught out of position over and over again. We had to work harder and the pressure resulted in poor decision making and skill errors. In many cases, our players looked confused and made poor decisions because they didn't have any options downfield. Port on the other hand were brimming with confidence. They knew what to do. It was impressive to watch. They had more time and space and didn't have to work as hard. So what you think were lucky plays, I would say were the end result of a good game plan that was working.

That's my take anyway. Sorry to be a Negative Nelly. I just hope Teague and co watch it, learn from it and educate the players. If they are strutting around Princes Park thinking, like you, that we were unlucky and patting themselves on the back because we had more scoring shots and more inside 50s, then we are in big trouble.

I think he is a troll

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

I can understand your thinking and love your optimism. Just curious - Did you watch the game on TV or were you at the ground?

I was there, and from my eye, it was an absolute thrashing. Forget about the scoring shots and inside 50s for a moment. Think about this - how often did we kick to an outnumbered contest? How often did Port have players in space? The difference was stark.

Our players were caught out of position over and over again. We had to work harder and the pressure resulted in poor decision making and skill errors. In many cases, our players looked confused and made poor decisions because they didn't have any options downfield. Port on the other hand were brimming with confidence. They knew what to do. It was impressive to watch. They had more time and space and didn't have to work as hard. So what you think were lucky plays, I would say were the end result of a good game plan that was working.

That's my take anyway. Sorry to be a Negative Nelly. I just hope Teague and co watch it, learn from it and educate the players. If they are strutting around Princes Park thinking, like you, that we were unlucky and patting themselves on the back because we had more scoring shots and more inside 50s, then we are in big trouble.

I was interstate this weekend so unable to attend. However have attended most games in Melbourne and watched broadcast and "other perspectives" - ground view definitely varies - the Fremantle one was an excellent case in point as you could see the players sitting on the ground stretching out their legs when the ball was at the opposite end showcasing the extreme tiredness.

That said - there is absolutely zero chance I would place one over the other for providing definitive understanding.

The terrible failures of CFC in the last 1st, last 2nd and early 3rd quarters where just as obvious - as were the positioning issues. Glaring. However Port were also making absurdly bad mistakes as well.

Fundamentally Port had three periods where they broke free. This is more about the team either stemming these periods and responding rather than some systemic failure of our rebuild or "sack Teague".

I genuinely believe that SPS is a massive liability in our back line he repeatedly costs us straight up turnovers and goals, like Liam jones has in the past / now, however he has such limited penetration - it is terrible from a backline perspective of breaking lines. He does however have incredible ability to thread a needle and so should be in the centre forward line delivering to leading forwards - this is happening because of Murph.

Both captains were showing shocking leadership and should be put on notice - enough dropped marks, kicking to opposition in forward line, failure to convert simple set shots. Enough.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

I think he is a troll

How so ?

 

[Poorman53]

Nuffies love to be frustrated and vent. Nuffies call radio stations

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk

I don't disagree, I just think the supporters are helping to drive it to some extent. I personally don't mind the heat coming on.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

B

We are 3rd last in inside 50 tackles Harry yes Harry is our leader with 6 .
Our small forwards as a group bar a couple of exceptions are seriously letting us down here .
Murph now a permanent forward in 5 games has a paltry 1 .
2/3 of our total of 41 are from our talls Harry Cas and Jack and mids Crippa Walsh and Ed .
Interestingly West Coast have less but given their tall forwards actually lead up the ground and most likely mark more often and they have real quality crumbers it isnt such an issue for them .
Its a real issue for us imo .

Spot on...
Besides an ageing Betts, all our small forwards are makeshift midfielders whom don’t provide the necessary pressure or have the class & craft that the proper and dangerous smalls possess... also the great pressure chasing and tackling causing turnovers and goal assists you get from them as well...

 

[Stamos]

Mate - last quarter we kicked 3 goals to their single goal, we missed 6 shots on goal. Even if we had of pegged half of those shots we would have lost be 6 points.

We had four more shots on goals than Port - that is statistically important and tells a different story than the melts in this, and other threads, about an injury depleted team that finished bottom half of the table last year against this years flags favorites.

Just providing perspective and a bit of reality on the issue.

The game was over.
We were 43 points down at 3 quarter time, and Port were happy to take it easy given that they had come off a very hard game against the Tiges, had injuries, and we never put them under any scoreboard pressure.

Are you really hanging your hat on junk-time goals?

 

[Stamos]

Quick question re the bolded bit (haven't watched any of the game).

Do you believe we kicked to the outnumbered contest primarily due to slow ball movement or poor decision making or both?

Reason I ask is that kicking to an outnumbered contest due to slow ball movement can be for several reasons:

Players up the ground are not pushing to make space (so that's an effort thing), the kicker has no confidence and goes backwards or slows play down by taking his time to move the ball on (concerning if lacking confidence in one's own skills but can also be as a product of the first reason), players have been pushed wide by the opposition guarding the corridor ie around the boundary play (I think opposition teams do this to us a lot because it slows us down and then we seem to be extremely susceptible to turning it over)

Poor decision making is poor decision making and tbh you can lay that at the door of the recruiting guys.

I think the poor decision making is more can be laid at the door of our gameplan/structures/coaching.

 

[Original Moody Blue]

It's funny to think before the season I thought we would likely finish 10-12. If all things why right possibly sneak into the 8. I had sides like Swans and Crows below us. Didn't realise 10-12 was generous because in reality we are a bottom 4 side still.

Firstly our list management is a disgrace, not picking up a Ruckman was a mistake. Pittonet is not a number 1 option and is our only option....

Secondly our fitness staff including the "best in the business" Russell is a joke. I honestly don't remember a time we ran out a game. Our spread and transition defence is laughable. Rolling out a slob like McGovern who still isn't fit is equally embarassing.

Our coaching and development is the worst in the league. We play players out of position. Struggle to develop and integrate young talent and refuse to move on from relying on the same old..

Tonight's game was more of the same, it's not even the losing that bothers me sadly. It's the fact the effort is just not there and hasn't been for a long time.

Our off and on field leadership and culture has to be fixed or we will never improve

As I have previously said and was smashed for it at the time, the alarm bells should have been ringing after the Crows match last season. Got smashed by the wooden spooner, and then carried off one of their players who elected to leave us, because we are great guys. Have a drink with him, go out with him kiss him and do whatever else you want, but do it away from the eyes of the footy world. The Crows players were shaking their heads in disbelief.
Teague did not even know they were going to do that and he immediately knew what a terrible look it was, and the message it sent to other clubs.
Our club is not a mentally tough group.

Mark my words, when we end up playing Hawthorn they will use every dirty Clarkson tactic in the book to beat us, and they will, because we are mentally weak. That is why they keep beating us..

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

B

Spot on...
Besides an ageing Betts, all our small forwards are makeshift midfielders whom don’t provide the necessary pressure or have the class & craft that the proper and dangerous smalls possess... also the great pressure chasing and tackling causing turnovers and goal assists you get from them as well...

Our problems are coming from the inclusion of players who are only 70%. Murphy although contributing well this week - this is "relative" to Murphy. His output is shockingly bad - as is Eddies. No one wants to dismiss them - but they are a liability on a huge scale.

Owies kicked 4 on the weekend - and does 2+ almost every week. Philp, Cuningham, Honey need another shot. Cuningham from my reading was ready to come in after blitzing and will be a straight in.

Fisher, Martin, Curnow, Silvagni, Cuningham, Cuningham, Philp firing we are an entirely different team.

 

[Brackets]

I've rewatched the 1st quarter. Will need to spread the rest out.

Things that stood out:
- We started well but couldn't hit the scoreboard. Not necessarily through bad play, just didn't go our way.

- McKay's biggest issue is misreading the ball drop. I expect the defender aids in this but he ends up under the ball needing to mark it almost behind his head, which is why he so often dives.

- Kennedy's lack of run were direct contributors to their first two goals. He had space on Byrne-Jones and Houston but lacked intent or desire to defend and allowed them to run pass for the goal assists.

- Cripps too often thinks it's not his job to defend. Drops out after the initial contest too readily.

- Said it pre game but we can't play Cripps, Ed and Kennedy together. He's depth for one of these two at best.

- Pitto is depth, not a starting ruck. His inability to pressure around the ground has us playing a man down.

- To many players are reactive not proactive. They'll sprint 20m behind when their man runs off the ball but won't work hard in the first instance to block them from getting it.

- To many players want to be at the end or next link in the chain rather than creating it.

Yeah some of the misses and disposals were poor but as a cohesive and balanced team we're a mile off it.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Williams can't run. Not fit enough.

Exactly! and totally inexcusable. He demanded big dollars plus full time midfield role... and he got them...

Only positive is, it's very early, only 3 games in... but what was he doing during preseason?

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

The game was over.
We were 43 points down at 3 quarter time, and Port were happy to take it easy given that they had come off a very hard game against the Tiges, had injuries, and we never put them under any scoreboard pressure.

Are you really hanging your hat on junk-time goals?

They absolutely did not "take it easy" - if we had of kicked straight they would have lost. That simple. We totally dominated and they were getting desperate. They were however dead on their feet after last week and having spent all their cookies in the 2nd and 3rd quarters - thats footy, thats how you win - let the other team run ragged then come home with a wet sail.

Again - we had 9 scoring shots to their 2 - we smashed them in the last and couldn't kick straight. Its just a fact.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

Exactly! and totally inexcusable. He demanded big dollars plus full time midfield role... and he got them...

Only positive is, it's very early, only 3 games in... but what was he doing during preseason?

Williams was awesome l- seriously where is this coming from ?

 

[Stamos]

They absolutely did not "take it easy" - if we had of kicked straight they would have lost. That simple. We totally dominated and they were getting desperate. They were however dead on their feet after last week and having spent all their cookies in the 2nd and 3rd quarters - thats footy, thats how you win - let the other team run ragged then come home with a wet sail.

Again - we had 9 scoring shots to their 2 - we smashed them in the last and couldn't kick straight. Its just a fact.

At which point in the last quarter were we straight kicking away from winning?
After the mid-way point of the 3rd, the closest we got was the final margin of 28. We were held at arm's length.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

As I have previously said and was smashed for it at the time, the alarm bells should have been ringing after the Crows match last season. Got smashed by the wooden spooner, and then carried off one of their players who elected to leave us, because we are great guys. Have a drink with him, go out with him kiss him and do whatever else you want, but do it away from the eyes of the footy world. The Crows players were shaking their heads in disbelief.
Teague did not even know they were going to do that and he immediately knew what a terrible look it was, and the message it sent to other clubs.
Our club is not a mentally tough group.

Mark my words, when we end up playing Hawthorn they will use every dirty Clarkson tactic in the book to beat us, and they will, because we are mentally weak. That is why they keep beating us..

Chairing a player off has absolutely no relevance on a game of football.

 

[Coops93]

- Cripps too often thinks it's not his job to defend. Drops out after the initial contest too readily.

I think that's him trying to have an impact on the outside, something he's emphasised the last couple of years.

If you look at his stats at his best he averages ~ 6.5 tackles a game and 15-17 contested possessions a game with about 10-11 uncontested possessions and 7-8 clearances. I'll ignore last yr, shorter games and all that, but this year he's down to 4 tackles a game and about 13 CP, 13 UP a game with 6 clearances. I think he's trying to get outside and maybe get a head of the ball, as opposed to getting lazy in defence. We need him to get back to his 16 CP, tackle games and 7 clearance game.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a contested beast with not so much inside game. Bont and Martin can do things on the outside others can't, but Cripps does things inside neither of them can do and he should be proud of it instead of thinking he's got to do more.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

At which point in the last quarter were we straight kicking away from winning?
After the mid-way point of the 3rd, the closest we got was the final margin of 28. We were held at arm's length.

Just read my post - the answer is there. Here it is again - we had 9 scoring shots to their 2. We completely dominated them the entire last quarter. They couldn't even get it out of our back line - we had 4 or 5 direct shots on goal all of which could have gone through.

Its not even an argument - we totally smashed them in the last, they were spent and were desperate, exact opposite of "taking it easy".

Its on kayo if you need it.

 

[Sector 7G]

I think he is a troll

I think he is David Teague

 

[Aphrodite]

Just read my post - the answer is there. Here it is again - we had 9 scoring shots to their 2. We completely dominated them the entire last quarter. They couldn't even get it out of our back line - we had 4 or 5 direct shots on goal all of which could have gone through.

Its not even an argument - we totally smashed them in the last, they were spent and were desperate, exact opposite of "taking it easy".

Its on kayo if you need it.

Kayo now.

 

[Aphrodite]

Bad kicking is bad football.

We lost.

Onto next week!

 

[Blue since 72]

I think the poor decision making is more can be laid at the door of our gameplan/structures/coaching.

Am wondering about this game plan. From what I get from Teague it seems to be fast ball movement (no surprise that's every teams go to) and forward half pressure locking it in with ideally deeper forward entries for our talls to either mark or bring to ground for our smalls to pounce on.

If we're going with a taller forward line another option is how WC set up where all their smaller players just clear out and allow the talls to lead up at the ball one on one (Pies did this to us with DeGoey and Elliott to great effect). Of course you've gotta move the ball quickly and accurately to make this work and we don't seem to be much good at that.

TBH the WC setup would work better for our forwards as none of Harry, Mitch, JSOS or Charlie (crossed fingers) are brutes who stand under a high ball and out muscle opposition back men, they're all athletic types who work better on the lead. Even JSOS looks better leading at the ball carrier.

Our only forward built like a brute is Cas and he doesn't really play that way too often.

So yeah perhaps game plan is not right for this group (once again you can't ask players to play to their strengths and then give them a game plan that doesn't allow them to). Add in players being played out of position and players who shouldn't even be playing and no wonder we're ****ed.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I enjoyed this. Agreed with most of the ratings. The only addition I'd have is more discussion about the role the players are in and whether it suits them. For instance we know Kennedy shouldn't be pushed up on to a wing. It's just not his go.

Fully agree with your Cripps assessment and enjoyed the emotion you showed.

Also, we are in sync on Doc. Thought he was better than most here give him credit for. Those dropped marks have clouded things for them.

Lastly, it has been a couple of years since we stopped doing the BigFooty Blues podcast. I don't feel any urgency to fire it back up when there are quality products such as yours filling the void. Your fan responses after the game are awesome too.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Our problems are coming from the inclusion of players who are only 70%. Murphy although contributing well this week - this is "relative" to Murphy. His output is shockingly bad - as is Eddies. No one wants to dismiss them - but they are a liability on a huge scale.

Owies kicked 4 on the weekend - and does 2+ almost every week. Philp, Cuningham, Honey need another shot. Cuningham from my reading was ready to come in after blitzing and will be a straight in.

Fisher, Martin, Curnow, Silvagni, Cuningham, Cuningham, Philp firing we are an entirely different team.

Murphy and Betts are certainly liabilities for different reasons and give an insight of how depleted we actually are in both lack that our list possess in this type of player and injuries to some of our better players as makeshift forwards...

Martin Cunners and Fish were all recruited as midfielders all actually possess all the necessary traits of speed, skill, evasiveness, run and spread our midfield could absolutely do with, for a number of reasons only Martin is being given a role through there atm...

So all three are have been played as forwards with Martin being a genuine FWD/MID, Fisher with more time and development has the smarts & skill to be a dangerous small, Cunners has displayed on occasions he can get to some good spots & kick goals playing forward as well, I’d prefer all three being part of our midfield setups and rotations...

Philp isn’t a small forward he’s a midfielder/wing, Honey has some exciting qualities but some deficiencies that need working on, Owies keeps kicking goals the reserves level they are not the goals of a proper crumbling small but if the club wants to find out more about him then put him in and see for yourselves, still has a lot to work on but if he can bring unconditional pressure that’s a good starting point...

 

[Stamos]

Am wondering about this game plan. From what I get from Teague it seems to be fast ball movement (no surprise that's every teams go to) and forward half pressure locking it in with ideally deeper forward entries for our talls to either mark or bring to ground for our smalls to pounce on.

If we're going with a taller forward line another option is how WC set up where all their smaller players just clear out and allow the talls to lead up at the ball one on one (Pies did this to us with DeGoey and Elliott to great effect). Of course you've gotta move the ball quickly and accurately to make this work and we don't seem to be much good at that.

TBH the WC setup would work better for our forwards as none of Harry, Mitch, JSOS or Charlie (crossed fingers) are brutes who stand under a high ball and out muscle opposition back men, they're all athletic types who work better on the lead. Even JSOS looks better leading at the ball carrier.

Our only forward built like a brute is Cas and he doesn't really play that way too often.

So yeah perhaps game plan is not right for this group (once again you can't ask players to play to their strengths and then give them a game plan that doesn't allow them to). Add in players being played out of position and players who shouldn't even be playing and no wonder we're f’ed.

While the kick inside 50 is a glaringly obvious issue, I'm more worried about our structures around the ball, and between the arcs. The way we make it so hard for us to move the ball without pressure, while making it so easy for the opposition.