Autopsy Rd 5 Blues go down to Saints by 3 goals

[pgm87]

Tell me again why SOS didn't pursue Dan Butler?? Cheap as chips and a reasonably smart small forward...??

SOS did didn't he? Pretty sure Butler was tossing up between Carlton and Saints and chose Saints.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Ps, I wasn't drunk last night. I barely ever drink, I was fuming, and I am still fuming.

Well then, an old Churchill quote comes to mind.......

 

[My Hat]

Lets be honest, we know we're not a finals side... and regardless of how well Teague has patched the cracks when we win we never smash anyone (except Gold Coast when they tended to turn bad in the latter end of seasons). In this day and age it's probably un-PC to say this, but seriously our mens team is soft!!! We have zero mongrel!! Not one player on our list has that d-head factor, we're just too nice!!

• Cripps - gun, but a lovely babyfaced boy;
• Docherty - gun, well brought up lad;
• Murphy - nice well brought up lad;
• Casboult - hulk of a man, devout religious boy;
• Walsh - see Murphy;
• Pittonet - hulk, hawks let him go because he's missing that bit of agro they love
• Weits - gun, nice kid, never seen him crash and bash hard
• Simmo - evergreen... takes a s-load of hits, never dishes them out... officially now the biggest loser in the AFL
• Eddie - best small forward ever... way too nice a guy.
• Dow - nice kid, scared to take a hit
• LOB - see Dow
• SPS - bull rider my ars3!!!! he'd be scared to mount a house cat at the moment.
• Martin - Silky, scared to tackle goes in for tackle-less bumps.
• Kreuzer - Lenny/Herman-munster personified

Closest players we have with some dcik to them are probably McGov and Williamson, but they're on the edge of the spectrum.

Seriously not since Waite (who was not much of a mongrel either) have we seen a player really ever get reported (except for that joke of a report made on Murphy by some corrupt umpiring last night).

Teams that have been successful in recent history have had a great blend of tough players, skillful players and a sprinkle of knob jockey on their teams, I could go through lists such as Geelong, Pies, GWS, Richmond, West Coast, Hawks to point out examples, but you know who they are.

Western Bulldogs won a premiership because for 3/4 of a season they found the inner mongrel... then reverted back to being Mr Niceguys most likely because their biggest d-head hasn't done much since.

Even though * are knobs in general, they're scared knobs as they've become a bit gun shy since the Hird era.

I make jokes about SOS never recruiting a player with tatts... our list is like a group of year 12 private students, cleanly shaven, shirts tucked in, tie in place... we seriously have no players with a rough edge to them.

If I was Teague this year would just be a year of developing the youngsters into being able to take a hit, dish out a legitimate hard hit and beg the recruiters to bring in some hard edged players. Send the list to Chuck Norris camp or something. Bite the bullet and trade a Dow/LOB/SPS for some middly skilled hard nuts! We should of gone for a Zac Jones type instead of chasing a nice guy who wanted to come home to be with family/gf.

Our Ladies side has had some success because they're tough and filled with chutzpah!

Come back Jed Lamb, all is forgiven.

 

[Crazyjoedevolamk11]

SOS did didn't he? Pretty sure Butler was tossing up between Carlton and Saints and chose Saints.

Nah....I remember SOS being interviewed at the time & shutting down the Journo saying he wasn't interested in Butler and wouldn't be pursuing him... pretty sure.

 

[murphster]

So now we are playing the Dogs at Metricon on Sun at 6:45 next week followed by Port Adelaide in Rd 7, why are we not still playing Sydney who are now playing Richmond in Qld instead of us, *in peanuts.

 

[jj1978]

Why the narrative that private school boys are soft? As someone who was at a private girls school not THAT long ago, I can tell you the private school boys want to do many things the public school boys are too embarrassed to ask...

What goes on behind closed doors no one sees... sadly playing football is a public spectacle so the Mr Nice Guy persona comes into effect.

 

[haveago]

Really interesting and poignant point.

I listened to a podcast with Chris Judd recently (the Howie Games, for anyone interested) and it was really good. He talks about how he views success and what makes a successful person and things of that nature.

Howie asked him if there was a big change in mentality from the Eagles to the Blues and immediately Chris said yep, big difference. At West Coast everyone in the building was driven by the highest of high goals, the premiership. Every year. He assumed all clubs felt that way as that's what the ultimate goal is. But when he got to Carlton he was surprised to see the "pinnacle" in most guys eyes was so much lower than anything Chris ever considered. He said the biggest goal most guys had was to get signed to a 3 year deal or something of that ilk. That was seen as having made "it", no one really thought about a premiership. They talked about it but it was never truly believed. The biggest goal of the group was to be on the list next year and keep earning that money.

To a degree, I don't think that attitude has ever truly left the group. How many guys on the list now really, genuinely, are putting a premiership as the no.1 goal right now? Cripps and Doc definitely seem that way, maybe Murph and Simmo to a degree as they've gotten older. Aside from that, I don't really know if anyone else on the list unequivocally believes that they can realistically reach the top.


I think a very clear example of this was in Bryce Gibbs first year at Adelaide. The year after the grand final they had a relatively poor year going 10-12 or something similar. Gibbs was asked how he felt about the disappointing year and he responded "It wasn't disappointing for me, 10 wins for me is a good year, I'm used to losing much more than that". I'm paraphrasing but that was basically his point. He was seen as one of the leaders of Carlton and that was his attitude, which is indicative of how the greater playing list would've felt.

I feel like the tide is starting to turn with Cripps and Doc at the top, but there's still a ways to go.

We really missed Jack....last two weeks.....He has the right stuff too!!

 

[DangerousD]

13 possessions 1 tackle
All he showed is he's just another rplaher who picks and chooses when he likes to have an impact on a game

Did you deliberately leave off his 2 goals as it didn’t suit your position?

As I said, he hasn’t been able to piece it all together yet, but his games the last two weeks have had a bit of growth in them.

 

[footyfan1978]

I laugh at people blaming individuals. The truth is that we are a fairly one dimensional team and it shows. We have two players who can be absolutely elite if allowed to be in Doc and Crippa. Most teams will understand that and go to great lengths to limit their influence. We need to find a way to deal with that (e.g. Cripps up forward earlier if needs be, doc onto the ball or man up another StKilda forward making it a 4 on 4 every time, quicker when it happens.

We have a potentially great K.P.D. in Weitering who is a magnificent field kick so should be utilised around C.H.B. so that we can use him going out of defence as much as possible. Somehow we have decided that he is our best option for the big guys which isolates him more at full back and limits the amount of drive that we can get out of him. I would even have sent Levi down to King last night to free J.W. up, he just doesn't miss options.

We have a forward line that can be exciting if we can get quick ball in to tall forwards but can look very top heavy (and be run off very easily) under various scenarios (damp conditions, Marvel, slow ball coming in). There are certain circumstances where we can only play two talls (including Mitch) up there - last night was one of those times.

Whilst Pittonet is a great trier who will always give his all, a few might have over-estimated his actual ability. There is no way that M.K. gets taken apart like that last night. We have to work with what we have and there will be plenty that he beats as well (he may have ended Tom Bellchambers career). We desperately need another big bodied midfielder so that we can be more flexible with Cripps as required. Hopefully Jack steps up there. Ollie Wines divides many but to my mind I would gladly give up this years first - he would improve us immeasurably.

Anyway onwards we go. The important thing from a loss like this is that there have to be learnings. On the field we have learned that we just cannot afford to not match our oppositions intensity early in the game and that at times we have to revert to Plan B, Plan C and so on quicker. On this board we have learned that there are still many who have personal agendas and see a loss as an ideal time to vent them.

Thank * I read a sensible post. Hardly read much here since game last night as too many clowns potting players left right and centre that young and being played in roles not ideal. Then take one browse here today and luckily read this to see there is some sensible people switched onto reality and not just venting with clueless ramblings.

Levi on King seemed an obvious move a coach could make with Weitering a bit undersized and kept out of play so deep for that match up.
Great post mate.

 

[haveago]

Thought since I have so much time I put a summary of each player.

Jack Martin - Execptional, should play more midfield than forward. Knows how to use the ball well and his i50 entry are brilliant.
Patrick Cripps - Okay performance, got outworked in the 1st but slowly got into the game. I think its more of that Jack Steele is blooming into a great midfielder for the Saints.
Sam Docherty - Okay performance, I guess he is isn't used to a tag?
Liam Jones - Ying and Yang. Woeful first half, second half was brilliant and courageous.
Will Setterfield - Brilliant 3rd qtr, needs to be consistent and perform all 4 qtrs to become an A-grader.
Kade Simpson - The usual, give it is all. Just missed a few targets that he usually hits.
Marc Murphy - Meh, seen better. Needs more ball as he is probably one of the best users.
David Cunningham - Disapointing conisdering how good he was last week.
Michael Gibbons - Underatted, becoming a great B-Grade midfielder. Has nice side steps and can hit a target.
Marc Pittonet - Okay performance, did well against an up and coming Ruckman Marshall.
Ed Curnow - The usual, did the dirty work. Thought he got the wrong end of a few umpire calls.
Lachlan Plowman - Just did he job really, nothing flash nor nothing terrible.
Jack Newnes - eh, really not a big fan? Bit of a soldier. He is never to play +1 back again.
SPS - Okay, missed a lot of targets that he usually hits.
Tom Williamson - You can see that he is trying to create space and run. But sometimes ran into trouble. I can accept a player trying and creating. Honestly I would keep encourging it.
Sam Walsh - 2nd year blues, really. I feel like the lower game time kinda mutes his insane atheletic ability to keep on running.
Jacob Weitering - First quarter meh, rest of the game did his job. All I can say is, I can understand why SOS wanted the King Brothers. Max and Ben will be monsters in a few years with their height and reach.
Sam Philip - Good second game, did his job, needs time to develop. Looks a tad lost out there?
Levi Casboult - Really off game from him, didn't help with some atrocious forward entries.
Eddie Betts - Can't really do much with our forward entrance. Great goal though.
Mitch McGovern - eh, disapointing from him. I hate players who bump and not tackle. I reckon there was a few holding the balls if he just tackled.
Harry Mckay - Same as Levi.

Changes

Zac Fisher for Sam Philip
Matt Kennedy for Newnes

A very good wrap up IMO but JSOS has to come in if right I would have thought

 

[DangerousD]

Really sh*t game last night from selection of team to coaching to the collective mediocre first half in particular.
Really pissed me off, not as much as Dees game but not far off. I was hoping another side angling to get above middle of ladder we could beat, but not to be.
I just hope the ideas of team structure are actually genuinely thought through and lessons learned we been getting away with some poor setups and too slow to actually learn lessons and make changes. Three or four changes in how we are setting up our team have to be made. Got no confidence the thinking is right in team selection until we pick our team right. Totally out coached last night. Learn the ******* lessons boys, FFS!!!

What are your selection concerns? Who’s in that shouldn’t be and for who?

 

[M_I_G]

Pittonet was given a lesson by Marshall.

SPS, Willo and Jones combined for 5 goals in direct turnovers.

Teague didn’t seem to have a Plan B for when Docherty was tagged out (which is ironic because I used to give Ratten grief about never having a Plan B).

Philp did some nice things - hope the confidence continues to grow from here.

Ed Curnow slamming the ball on the boot is hitting Mitch Robinson like levels.

SPS is nearly good for one or two crucial and costly slips per game (would be keen to see his chosen footwear!)

They were just more fluid and worked harder to open us up for longer whenever they had the ball.

tbh we could do a lot worse than Mitch Robinson running round in blue

 

[DangerousD]

Really interesting and poignant point.

I listened to a podcast with Chris Judd recently (the Howie Games, for anyone interested) and it was really good. He talks about how he views success and what makes a successful person and things of that nature.

Howie asked him if there was a big change in mentality from the Eagles to the Blues and immediately Chris said yep, big difference. At West Coast everyone in the building was driven by the highest of high goals, the premiership. Every year. He assumed all clubs felt that way as that's what the ultimate goal is. But when he got to Carlton he was surprised to see the "pinnacle" in most guys eyes was so much lower than anything Chris ever considered. He said the biggest goal most guys had was to get signed to a 3 year deal or something of that ilk. That was seen as having made "it", no one really thought about a premiership. They talked about it but it was never truly believed. The biggest goal of the group was to be on the list next year and keep earning that money.

To a degree, I don't think that attitude has ever truly left the group. How many guys on the list now really, genuinely, are putting a premiership as the no.1 goal right now? Cripps and Doc definitely seem that way, maybe Murph and Simmo to a degree as they've gotten older. Aside from that, I don't really know if anyone else on the list unequivocally believes that they can realistically reach the top.


I think a very clear example of this was in Bryce Gibbs first year at Adelaide. The year after the grand final they had a relatively poor year going 10-12 or something similar. Gibbs was asked how he felt about the disappointing year and he responded "It wasn't disappointing for me, 10 wins for me is a good year, I'm used to losing much more than that". I'm paraphrasing but that was basically his point. He was seen as one of the leaders of Carlton and that was his attitude, which is indicative of how the greater playing list would've felt.

I feel like the tide is starting to turn with Cripps and Doc at the top, but there's still a ways to go.

That’s quite interesting and I can see, in a side that rebuilding, a lot of guys would be thinking that way. It also says a little about Judds ability to lead and break a mould of poor culture. He was with us 8 years, supposedly had a great work ethic and mentality, but was his work ethic and mentality forced on to others?

Murphy, Simpson, Kruz would all know that, they aren’t winning a premiership, they are filling in time for others to catch up, what does this do to a culture or do do foster an elite winners mentality?

 

[Elmer_Judd]

tbh we could do a lot worse than Mitch Robinson running round in blue

Even if I wanted Robbo back (which I don't), I have no doubt President LoGuidace would not allow it, he was very scathing of him when we axed him, plus he made a few insulting remarks about club and the players whilst at Brisbane.

He has burnt his bridges at this club, I doubt he will ever be welcomed back as a former player when he retires either.

 

[footyfan1978]

What are your selection concerns? Who’s in that shouldn’t be and for who?

Forward line regularly too top heavy. Sometimes it actually works on the odd game like v Cats.. More often though it does not. I am never confident when I see McGovern and Casboult both playing down there at same time. Need more speed and crumbing ability down there. We picked Newnes as a de-listed free agent mature body player. That is what he is. Great, a little more depth for times of injuries. This guy should not be in our 22 regularly. If we had a list of 6 or 7 injuries to younger guys we could play on wing, I am fine with him in team in those rares games But for FFS, he should be down amongst the 35th to 44th player in our thinking for team selection each week, in line with how he got added to the list as depth foot soldier. I am not happy seeing guys we need to develop in seniors like Stocker or O'Brien fit and able to play and this guy in ahead of them. It is just fundamentally wrong in thinking long term. As another poster said, Weitering ideally should be used on half back line and only sparingly on last line of defence to make use of his great kicking. Like the Andrew Walker mistake of past we are playing someone in backline that is not a defender first guy. SPS should not be be locked into thinking he is a half back flanker. I think it is stifling his creativity and playing too careful that not in line with his strengths. There are a few things about midfield setups annoying me but that is still a work in progress so less forgiving there right at this moment. But first thing is get the half back line setup to strength of team Weitering should be there and SPS further up the ground. Newnes just should not be in side and Stocker should be in such a shortened game time season. It makes no sense that a guy we invested in long term that only real knock is tank is not being picked in a seniors to blood him perfectly with game time shortened. He should be in the ******* midfield and stop being ******* so cute with team selections. Get Newnes out of that side right ******* now. Driving me bonkers to see him selected when so many others with much better upside available but playing scratch matches instead. That is just totally flawed in thinking at selection meetings.

 

[Sinjin Smith]

 

[Michael Jezz]

SOS did didn't he? Pretty sure Butler was tossing up between Carlton and Saints and chose Saints.

Imo because he was forced to pursue eddie betts and given the likelihood of papley next year and the development of a youngster or 2, Butler may not have had more than a year in the side

 

[DangerousD]

Forward line regularly too top heavy. Sometimes it actually works on the odd game like v Cats.. More often though it does not. I am never confident when I see McGovern and Casboult both playing down there at same time. Need more speed and crumbing ability down there. We picked Newnes as a de-listed free agent mature body player. That is what he is. Great, a little more depth for times of injuries. This guy should not be in our 22 regularly. If we had a list of 6 or 7 injuries to younger guys we could play on wing, I am fine with him in team in those rares games But for FFS, he should be down amongst the 35th to 44th player in our thinking for team selection each week, in line with how he got added to the list as depth foot soldier. I am not happy seeing guys we need to develop in seniors like Stocker or O'Brien fit and able to play and this guy in ahead of them. It is just fundamentally wrong in thinking long term. As another poster said, Weitering ideally should be used on half back line and only sparingly on last line on defence to make use of his great kicking. Like the Andrew Walker mistake of past we are playing someone in backline that is not a defender first guy. SPS should not be be locked into thinking he is a half back flanker. I think it is stifling his creativity and playing too careful that not in line with his strengths. There are a few things about midfield setups annoying me but that is still a work in progress so less forgiving there right at this moment. But first thing is get the half back line setup to strength of team Weitering should be there and SPS further up the ground. Newnes just should not be in side and Stocker should be in such a shortened game time season. It makes no sense that a guy we invested in long term that only real knock is tank is not being picked in a senior to blood him perfectly with game time shortened. He should be in the ******* midfield and stop being ******* so cute with team selections. Get Newnes out of that side right ******* now. Driving me bonkers to see him selected when so many others with much better upside available but playing scratch matches instead. That is just totally flawed in thinking at selection meetings.

Fair play, I’m confused on Stocker too, especially with the shortened game time.
Im disappointed in Gov as I thought he would be more a link between defence and attack which he’s not, one thing I like when Harry and Charlie play together, was how high Harry would play, get him up the ground and allow the other two to be the targets.

Bit harsh on Newnes to a degree, he’s been serviceable, we have to try find a balance between winning and creating a culture that demands players not be gifted games and developing players long term. Next game, hopefully Fish comes in for someone and maybe one of the forwards is dropped to send a message.

I think we need to pick our battles this year, like they do in the premier league, field our best possible 22 for games we think we should win and rest 2-3 older guys in games we probably won’t, to give more exposure to other players.
If Simmo is retiring, then he should be rested a few times this year, same with Betts.

 

[Bearded Carpenter]

Lets be honest, we know we're not a finals side... and regardless of how well Teague has patched the cracks when we win we never smash anyone (except Gold Coast when they tended to turn bad in the latter end of seasons). In this day and age it's probably un-PC to say this, but seriously our mens team is soft!!! We have zero mongrel!! Not one player on our list has that d-head factor, we're just too nice!!

• Cripps - gun, but a lovely babyfaced boy;
• Docherty - gun, well brought up lad;
• Murphy - nice well brought up lad;
• Casboult - hulk of a man, devout religious boy;
• Walsh - see Murphy;
• Pittonet - hulk, hawks let him go because he's missing that bit of agro they love
• Weits - gun, nice kid, never seen him crash and bash hard
• Simmo - evergreen... takes a s-load of hits, never dishes them out... officially now the biggest loser in the AFL
• Eddie - best small forward ever... way too nice a guy.
• Dow - nice kid, scared to take a hit
• LOB - see Dow
• SPS - bull rider my ars3!!!! he'd be scared to mount a house cat at the moment.
• Martin - Silky, scared to tackle goes in for tackle-less bumps.
• Kreuzer - Lenny/Herman-munster personified

Closest players we have with some dcik to them are probably McGov and Williamson, but they're on the edge of the spectrum.

Seriously not since Waite (who was not much of a mongrel either) have we seen a player really ever get reported (except for that joke of a report made on Murphy by some corrupt umpiring last night).

Teams that have been successful in recent history have had a great blend of tough players, skillful players and a sprinkle of knob jockey on their teams, I could go through lists such as Geelong, Pies, GWS, Richmond, West Coast, Hawks to point out examples, but you know who they are.

Western Bulldogs won a premiership because for 3/4 of a season they found the inner mongrel... then reverted back to being Mr Niceguys most likely because their biggest d-head hasn't done much since.

Even though * are knobs in general, they're scared knobs as they've become a bit gun shy since the Hird era.

I make jokes about SOS never recruiting a player with tatts... our list is like a group of year 12 private students, cleanly shaven, shirts tucked in, tie in place... we seriously have no players with a rough edge to them.

If I was Teague this year would just be a year of developing the youngsters into being able to take a hit, dish out a legitimate hard hit and beg the recruiters to bring in some hard edged players. Send the list to Chuck Norris camp or something. Bite the bullet and trade a Dow/LOB/SPS for some middly skilled hard nuts! We should of gone for a Zac Jones type instead of chasing a nice guy who wanted to come home to be with family/gf.

Our Ladies side has had some success because they're tough and filled with chutzpah!

Both 4b2 and I concur with you.

 

[footyfan1978]

Fair play, I’m confused on Stocker too, especially with the shortened game time.
Im disappointed in Gov as I thought he would be more a link between defence and attack which he’s not, one thing I like when Harry and Charlie play together, was how high Harry would play, get him up the ground and allow the other two to be the targets.

Bit harsh on Newnes to a degree, he’s been serviceable, we have to try find a balance between winning and creating a culture that demands players not be gifted games and developing players long term. Next game, hopefully Fish comes in for someone and maybe one of the forwards is dropped to send a message.

I am not too harsh on Newnes. It is people selecting him in side week after week that piss me off. He is just doing what he is doing. Limited footballer that mature bodied foot solider that should have been a leader in reserves team this year and only played in seniors if we had too many injuries. That is the context of him picked up as de-listed free agent. He should be seen in that light on selection. 35th to 44th type player on list. Not in top 22...

As for forward line, yes, ideally Harry and Charlie is what we got when we up and about. Frustratingly we cannot have that right now. Mini Gov is an enigma. Never really made sense to me why he was recruited. I thought it was a Bolton ask to recruiting department or maybe it was his and Teague's idea but it never made sense to our list needs. But now he is on list, it is time to see what he can do. So far, the enigma is what he continues to seem to be. Not really key position player but still a tall marking forward line not have the crumbing numbers and speed we really need. I've always thought his best use is simply as a swing man, where you play from week to week if you have a role for him in the 22. With Jack Silvagni, Charlie Curnow and Marchbank all injured of similar size I am ok with him in the 22 but being played exclusively as a forward, I am just not sure what we are doing to balance of forward line. It is too top heavy with him and Levi there. If last night Levi matched up on King down back it would have meant forward line not too top heavy and Weitering free up to play centre half back and better drive from back half into a smaller more mobile forward line. Coaching group just seem too stuck on same setups and not enough switching things around at both ends.

 

[alfo]

go watch his game against the dogs last year

If you're referring to the first game where we won by 40 points, then my argument still sticks.
Easy to run around with confidence when the rest of the team is doing the same
No real massive bodies in the dogs' midfield anyway.

 

[Coops93]

That’s quite interesting and I can see, in a side that rebuilding, a lot of guys would be thinking that way. It also says a little about Judds ability to lead and break a mould of poor culture. He was with us 8 years, supposedly had a great work ethic and mentality, but was his work ethic and mentality forced on to others?

Murphy, Simpson, Kruz would all know that, they aren’t winning a premiership, they are filling in time for others to catch up, what does this do to a culture or do do foster an elite winners mentality?

He mentions that even when the on field was coming good off the field organisation still wasn't going well. So to a degree I think he did turn around the players mindsets, at least for a little while, before the club off field fell apart. A few finals wins and even being prem favorites at one point. I don't think he can be completely to blame for not turning the individuals around as their input ispart of the equation as well and he discusses that a little bit, mentioning one small regret he has or something he'd do differently is try to have a little more input into the list when he was captain.

A captain isn't really the person list calls should come down to, but that tells me he thinks he was playing with guys who didn't have that winners mentality and maybe had the chance to have some input on who to keep/target but chose not to, which he regrets.


On the second point, it's interesting, it depends on how much they buy in to really mentoring the young kids. If they are passionate about it I don't think it hurts too much, but it's hard to say without knowing what is driving them. Murphy, at least publicly, has talked about being around for finals success.

 

[alfo]

There lies the problem with our recruiting.
Too many players recruited with lack of foresight into positions playable and athletic/aerobic capabilities at AFL level.

SPS
Kennedy
Dow
Stocker
All recruited in belief they would be midfielders, yet I’m not seeing it.

Yes 100%, still don't know what role SPS was intended for when he was drafted. Didn't fill any glaring needs then. Still doesn't fill a need now.
Kennedy was too slow, we just needed an extra big body, a desperation call.
Dow, if he continues to butcher the ball and have zero awareness he isn't going to last long.
Stocker, jury still out, however in his second year and still not pushing for selection. One has to wonder, we saw him as the 6th best player in the draft. How many players from his draft year have already played more games than him?

Recruiting needs to be really spot on from here on. A new set of eyes amongst that department may help. Elite kicking is a must, surely by 18 you know what type of kick a kid will have.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Woke up thinking about that performance last night again. It hurt to see an effort like that from our group. Especially in the first half, it was inexcusable. They looked like they didn't fancy a game, didn't even want the ball. Zero fight, zero hunger. By the time they competed properly, they had already lost.

I do not recall the last time I saw Carlton handle the slightest expectation well. I don't recall the last time a Carlton group visibly hungered for more than keeping their noses above water in the competition. There is an appearance of satisfaction where there should not be. I'm a blow-in to this country, this game. I've only lived here for 12 years. I hear Carlton people talk about the glory days, and it means nothing to me. I've not witnessed the slightest pulse of greatness anywhere at the club. Just big talk, followed inevitably by disappointment. At best we have been brave losers (West Coast Elimination Final) or plucky underdogs having their day (Beating Richmond from 9th). These have been the pinnacle, the top of the mountain, in my time. That's it, in 12 years. There are notable exceptions to this acceptance of ritual mediocrity, men who you watch and see pride burning in their guts when they play. I don't forget this, but they have been the exception.

I have occasionally dropped into this forum over the years and enjoy everyone's contributions, especially in pre-season when hope springs eternal. There seems to be an assumption that we are on the cusp of a bright gleaming future at Carlton. There is always comfort in a 'tomorrow' mindset. It conjures for us a phoney inevitability that we can't resist. The truth is that without application it is not coming. Without application it's a fantasy. When you look at the lists for the top sides do you see stars everywhere? High draft picks everywhere? Or are they the top sides because of their hunger, application, discipline, consistency of effort, and manic will to win? The best teams are those who - as one - have decided to seize today, not tomorrow.

Despite not being a top team, that's simply what our opponent did last night. They won because they wanted to. They set out with singular purpose, and didn't wait around, they made it happen with effort and application to the task. That's what I want to see from Carlton, not tomorrow, but today. Everytime they take to the field. A singular purpose. Win, or go down fighting tooth and ****ing nail. We've all waited patiently for a talented list to be assembled. We have one now. No more tomorrow, Carlton.

Quality post.
It's the mindset of a team that can be extremely difficult to turn around and we have been losers for the entirety of this millenium, I have faith that Doc and Cripps are two that have the desire, application and drive to reach the pinnacle but we don't really know where a lot of our youngsters are at. The Geelong game was a clear example of a team with a losing mindset versus that of a team with a winning mindset. We completely outplayed them for three quarters and in the end were lucky to take home the four points after holding a huge lead late into the game. There is no magic cure for this, the only way is experiencing wins, but as you said we need the application and a winning mindset that demands a premiership or else we will never get there. We have enough recruits who are now experienced enough to no longer be able to apply a "tomorrow" mindset (I like the term).

I remember watching a documentary on Manchester United and listening to Beckham recall his experiences through their glory years. It didn't matter how much they were down or how late in the game it was, they knew they would generally win. Their ability to snag a win late in the game when they were having a down day was phenomenal. We are the opposite, if we have a lead late in the game there is still that losing mentality in the background, it's almost like they prefer to be behind to take the pressure off. The only way to turn this around is through winning experience and the only way to gain winning experience is to, as you say, fight tooth and nail.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Nah....I remember SOS being interviewed at the time & shutting down the Journo saying he wasn't interested in Butler and wouldn't be pursuing him... pretty sure.

Yeah, that's how I remember it Crazy Joe Davola