Autopsy Rd 5 Blues go down to Saints by 3 goals

[BigBreakfast]

* be feeling even worse after our loss tonight I imagine.........

Retroactive but.. * will be on top of the world. As opposed to...

 

[BigBreakfast]

They are way better than us so its us thays going nowhere

Ummmm.

 

[BigBreakfast]

Saints are going better than us and are ahead of us at the moment. They are more skilled, better through the midfield and a lot quicker.

We were exposed badly for poor skills. Fumbling and everytime a passage of play was built and the game opened up we turned it over by foot. We are such a poor kicking side. We couldn't hit targets against Essendon last week but got away with it. This week they just rebounded quickly the other way. The other thing is the basic hand eye skills. How many attempted spoils failed to hit the ball which resulted in a St Kilda score! Same with marking attempts that don't touch the ball. Real basic footy and coordination skills lacking from us.

The other thing we dropped was matchups. King is too tall for Weitering. Jones should have been on him or we probably should have moved Casbout onto him and let Weitering roam a bit more. Weitering is a body on body player and doesn't have a great leap.

It wasn't a good game for us, exposed a lot of our weaknesses. Poor kicking, poor midfield and a bit slow.

Yes the umpiring was bad and went against us. They got paid a lot of frees for things that are usually let go, very small stuff or stuff they got wrong, we got none of that. God knows why.

Betts - Thought he battled well and tried his best but it was tough for our forwards. I thought his pressure was better this week.
Casboult - Terrible game. Dropped marks and butchered it by foot but the delivery didn't help.
Cripps - Having a really mediocre season compared to last and he was toweled up last night. Had an impact going forward but when we go forward it's ugly.
Cuningham - Battled away in the midfield for not much. Didn't use it overly well, didn't win a lot of the ball, didn't seem to have that physical presence at the contest to be a real inside player.
Curnow - Has his moments but is just a below average mid and he has slowed down. Did some good things, battles away but his kicking is a liability.
Docherty - They clamped down on him but he still had a fair game, nothing wrong with his performance.
Gibbons - Seriously the coach has this one wrong, he should be playing on the ball. He's on of few who competes physically and has a real go. Quiet day for forwards but he impacts every stoppage he is at, thing is he never plays on the ball.
Jones - Terrible first half, decent second half. Just made a meal of this game, took some good intercept marks but it was a messy game for him. Get's smashed in the air by little blokes and it's not unusual for him to be beaten in the air by smaller players. Need him to lift, find a bit more strength or something.
Martin - I thought he was pretty good. He has a physical aspect to his game and his skills are nice. Handy player.
McGovern - This guy needs to learn how to lead and to run because he just never gets on the end of it like he should. Got to wonder whether he knows how to get to the right spots at the right time. Perhaps it's our ball movement.
McKay - Terrible game, set the tone early by being outmarked a few times, just not good enough. Yes the delivery was bad buy he had to halve those contests. Kept getting caught up with the other talls and just seemed to be in all the wrong places.
Murphy - Just not a day for outside players, our midfield was beaten and he didn't find it until he went on the ball late in the game.
Newnes - Got a bit of it in junk time but did nothing of note. Was made to look slow. He's not a bad player but he's not great either.
SPS - Fairly absent. Turns it over in bad places. Just didn't seem in the game at all.
Philp - A Much better game this time around. Still a long way to go.
Pittonett - An adequate game this week, did some good things, gets in the right spots.
Plowman - He's too slow. Wasn't a fan of a moment he got caught up the ground and didn't push back hard into defence. Teams just keep going through him. He does a lot of things right but I feel we are waiting form someone better, bigger and quicker to come along.
Setterfield - Thought he was ok, leg speed is an issue but he got in the thick of things and fought for the ball which was good but IMO he's just a player.
Simpson - Apart from one shocking kick his game was good. Why can't all our player play the game the way he does!
Walsh - Battled hard but it just wasn't going his way.
Weitering - Had a shocker, towelled up by king. Weitering needs to start hitting a bit harder and develop a good body spoil.
Williamson - Apart from one bad fumbling effort his game was pretty good. Competes physically and he can kick.

Pay the effort. We have sweet FA of it!

 

[BigBreakfast]

Steele was ******* disgusting last night. Holding Crippa before the ball and then locking in a tackle when he got it... and got rewarded for it

Watch Curnow every week. That's modern footy. Man up.

 

[Jabba73]

Had a few bad days in these
Cheers. Provides stability. Something we lack. Serious Plow fan!

Not enough love for Plowman

 

[BigBreakfast]

Not enough love for Plowman

I'm with you, Jabba. Plow rocks, who would play in our backilne in 2020 consistently? With our midlield?

 

[Eiffel 65]

Did our 2's play prior to this game?

 

[BigBreakfast]

Kane Cornes is on his anti Sam Walsh bandwagon again.Says Carlton made a mistake picking him and it should finally own up to that fact. Discuss

if Walsh hadn’t been taken then who? Rozee?

Sam will reward our club in time. Kid is beast who will garner league wide respect in time. Depth legend ...

 

[BigBreakfast]

Why you take losing personally for ? It's not your own performance to take personally ..it's a squad of players representing themselves ..their families ..their teammates ..their coaching staff ..their team ..the/their club ..they don't go out to play for you and me .. so you gotta ask yourself should I take losing personally ... I don't ..I grew up in the early 70s around princess park / parkville Brunswick area I loved watching Bruce doull Wayne Johnston Ashman hunter McClure etc ..going around ..this is a new group of players ..give them a chance to reach their potential

And

Sometimes you just lose a game because your opponent is more switched on than you for that week. St.Kilda came to play and were better than us, we played horribly as a group yet ended up losing only by 18 points.

It's not quite as apocalyptic as some are making it out to be, we just aren't quite there yet.

How often are we not quite there yet? Been a while since we were there!

 

[DangerousD]

Watching Marshall has made me wonder how good it would be to blood and develop De Koning. Marshall has become amazing within 12 months of consistent game time.

Hes a rippa, i can't believe we and every other club missed him. In comparison to TDK, Marshal is 4 years older, which is a huge gap in ruckman years.

 

[SurreyBlue]

I don't understand the constant references to 20 years of whatever. We're all quite aware of our lack of success over recent times but whats achieved by constantly talking about the past however many years? Your options are either to hang tough until things turn around ( and I think the signs are there that we are on that path) or you walk away from it all.

This isn't the same club that it was even as recently as 5 years ago so references to anything that happened before then really aren't too relevant.

Disagree. The club has continuously illustrated that it hasn’t changed or learnt by it’s insipid performances. It gets opportunities to stand up and show it’s growth and it keeps failing, especially when it becomes the hunted. Been happening for 2 decades. I’d be interested in your examples of our professionalism off and on field that highlights a successful cultural environment.
I also take offence with posters suggestion others who highlight such issues can’t ‘hang tough’ and should flower off.
Really offended!!! I’d go as far as saying insulted!!!

 

[DangerousD]

Players should know their limitations.

True this, our players also need to know there teammates limitations too and who calls for a ball, across goal when there is an opponent right there?

 

[BigBreakfast]

I addressed your post regarding Doc and Cripps, specifically what Teague could have done with taggers. If you want to discuss other aspects, perhaps you can read my other thoughts which also address player outputs

One of your lines is the exact reason why you just don't get, regarding pride, which is flawed. Pride should never be a consideration, it is about how to get the best out of a player/team in any given game.

Teague reacted, unusually, too slow to combat the situation or players weren't adhering to instruction, whichever it was, it is on Teague to manage that situation

Cripps wasn't on the move, could have gone to another opponent at stoppages creating a free teammate, any teammate should have provided multiple blocks, gone forward earlier, etc

Doc, could have respected his direct opponent, or been moved earlier to provide more drive rather than still trying to say off trying to play his sweeper role

What have you got to offer as a keyboard critic on the game, rather than on my direct response to your post regarding Teague and his decision making around Doc and Doc, which you turned into some non existent agenda of me solely blaming the coach?

Try adding something without your condescending bullshit

If you want to discuss players, let's have it, I will be brutally realist as always

Arrow, hard to fight for our blokes right now. We will, in all likelihood, miss another final series and what is next. Another high pick, another optimistic preseason, bring on 2021/22.

 

[BigBreakfast]

I wonder how much of a role the psychologists play in list management? I’ve quite sure they’d be involved when it comes to the potential draftees? But I wonder whether they have a role in terms of profiling the club psychology, whether that be just players or players and off-field staff, and then potential trade recruits etc.

I guess what I’m wondering is, focusing on players, whether in their duties as psychologists do they discuss with the football department/list mgmt team and talk about, for instance, the overriding positive and negative elements of the playing group’s mentality and the need to introduce certain type of character traits, thereby, having an influence on which players we look to trade in?

... and if they’re not, whether they should be

Soft cap spend? What direction is the right one? Will see when the cuts kick in. Make players accountable!

 

[Eiffel 65]

Kane Cornes is on his anti Sam Walsh bandwagon again.Says Carlton made a mistake picking him and it should finally own up to that fact. Discuss

if Walsh hadn’t been taken then who? Rozee?

Walsh has been solid this year, but some might say he's been a little underwhelming given the expectations.

We need to remind ourselves that he's only in his second season. He's still developing.

Walsh built his game on power running. Shorter quarters have taken away his number 1 asset, so it's only natural for his game to be impacted.

In contrast, the shorter quarters play into Rozee's hands, as he is more of a bust/moments player.

What fans need to remember is that we got more than a player. We got someone who's going to lead and drive the standards of the club in years to come.

 

[BigBreakfast]

Aints only $20 million in debt.

good thing Gillon is a Saints fan to help prop them up........

Above us on the ladder though. Mattered in 80s.

 

[BigBreakfast]

I’m not worried about other sides, I’m asking your opinion on whether you think our history of being a cellar dweller, our history of losing and a lot of our players being a part of that, contributes or contributed to us going into our shell against the cats or has an affect on our poor starts?

Many have mentioned it seems our players only switch on once we are behind and the pressure is off, do you think there’s any truth to that, if yes, is that due to a losing mentality?

Ive seen many posters talk about what happens when a player spends too much time injured or too much time in the 2s, that they become 2s players, I’m paraphrasing here, I feel losing is the same and a lot of the mentality is ingrained, doesn’t mean it doesn’t go away but it takes time.
[/QUOT

The reverse c

DeKoning will play, when he's actually ready to play and that's the way it should be, there's no great need to rush him right now.

English was played, panned, played and panned. How long do we hide TDK? Play the kid ffs!

 

[Michael Jezz]

Another band wagoner, bring it on

You are deluded. Think you can build a great side without draft focus and tackling does not matter (illogical) You are the one on the bandwagon with implied support for Liddle, and MLG

 

[Arr0w]

Arrow, hard to fight for our blokes right now. We will, in all likelihood, miss another final series and what is next. Another high pick, another optimistic preseason, bring on 2021/22.

Never had us making finals this year, more a competitive mid table side, which seems to be around the mark so far

 

[Kernafides]

Never had us making finals this year, more a competitive mid table side, which seems to be around the mark so far

Hope you're right but its conceivable that in a fortnight we'll be 15th.... doubt that's what the club expected. Our mid tier players never seem to consistently step up so we just keep treading water.

 

[Arr0w]

Hope you're right but its conceivable that in a fortnight we'll be 15th.... doubt that's what the club expected. Our mid tier players never seem to consistently step up so we just keep treading water.

Many connotations

We showed late last year that we were competitive/successful against other mid table sides, that doesn't seem to have changed

 

[Iamcarlton]

Im not sure if its my Blue tinted glasses, but i was spewing at Curnows 2 holding the ball free kicks, i was supportive of Clarksons comments regarding there needing to be more paid, but not at the expense of prior opportunity, which both times i didn't think he had.
Were they harsh?

As soon as I heard the AFL say they will be tougher on HTB my first first thought was here we go its gonna be no genuine attempt time again from the umps .
This does my head in wrapped up no chance its coming out no prior **** I hate the bozos running our game .

 

[gab213]

Disagree. The club has continuously illustrated that it hasn’t changed or learnt by it’s insipid performances. It gets opportunities to stand up and show it’s growth and it keeps failing, especially when it becomes the hunted. Been happening for 2 decades. I’d be interested in your examples of our professionalism off and on field that highlights a successful cultural environment.
I also take offence with posters suggestion others who highlight such issues can’t ‘hang tough’ and should flower off.
Really offended!!! I’d go as far as saying insulted!!!

If you choose to be insulted that's your decision, I never said there were no issues that need addressing, the posts I talk about don't rationally address any issues past the same old lines...the last 20 years blah blah blah nonsense. If you can't acknowledge the difference in the club now to what we had 15 years ago, 10 years ago, 5 years ago then I am not going to waste my time trying to explain it as people who want to see nothing but darkness will continue to do so regardless of what anyone says.

Maybe you (not you personally but the collective you that you're insulted on behalf of) should take responsibility for introducing these tired old themes into all different threads for the responses you will get. As far as I can tell this thread was for the discussion of one game not for a discussion of the 'past 20 years'.

 

[Arr0w]

I don't understand the constant references to 20 years of whatever. We're all quite aware of our lack of success over recent times but whats achieved by constantly talking about the past however many years? Your options are either to hang tough until things turn around ( and I think the signs are there that we are on that path) or you walk away from it all.

This isn't the same club that it was even as recently as 5 years ago so references to anything that happened before then really aren't too relevant.

Because it is easier to reference the last 20 years, to justify what they think of our current situation/progress

This club has changed dramatically from prior to 2015 at pretty much every level

 

[gab213]

English was played, panned, played and panned. How long do we hide TDK? Play the kid ffs!

Yes of course let's just play the kids and then when we are being slaughtered let's then talk about how crap they are and why can't our club develop players as others do. A never-ending cycle of mediocrity as we have seen for the past 20 years, right? Is that how it works?