Autopsy Rd 7 Big loss but some promising signs

[Jabba73]

Wrong thread maybe, but a very interesting and important discussion.

If this is the wrong thread Mods, please swing it over to where you deem it nestles best and we can pick it up from there.

Can't we run it in co-threads? Usually against this, but it seems to be working at the moment ...

 

[Aphrodite]

Wrong thread maybe, but a very interesting and important discussion.

If this is the wrong thread Mods, please swing it over to where you deem it nestles best and we can pick it up from there.

Haven't I already mentioned that Harks!

Not the thread for it Harks.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/next-captain-of-carlton.1146185/page-17

 

[HARKER]

I haven't the capacity to swing 50 odd posts into another thread.

 

[Spuddie05]

Agree on managerial styles but the facts are the facts.

Managing sports is totally different to anything you could encounter in the real world.

Ferguson, Gerrard, Klopp, Benitez, Guardiola, Terry, Clarkson, Hodge.

The names I’ve mentioned above all relate to the style we should be aspiring to, why so many soccer names? Because this is the model our coaches look at and join in with the most. We don’t hear much about this as the AFL do not want to give the ‘other’ ball sport any free air...

Bolts is from the this line of thinking and wants the self discipline to be instilled into this team. It’s time for the extroverts to take control and drag the rest with them...

I hope you're not suggesting extroverts are necessarily more self-disciplined than introverts...certainly ain't the case with my son's football team

 

[Aphrodite]

I haven't the capacity to swing 50 odd posts into another thread.

I do but it's very time consuming & I won't be moving them.

If only people would post in the correct thread.

It's really pretty simple.

 

[goreds]

I hope you're not suggesting extroverts are necessarily more self-disciplined than introverts...certainly ain't the case with my son's football team

Haha!

Let’s say they fly closer to the line!!

 

[Arr0w]

Hey Arrow,

Just popping in to check the final scores?

Last time we spoke, you were happy with the performance... we must have almost won.

Regards,
Blues fan without blue tinted glasses

How do you feel about this week Todd?

Find any positives in the game? Bet i can't find one

But noticed you potting SPS

Supporters like you ..... FMD

 

[Toddski]

How do you feel about this week Todd?

Find any positives in the game? Bet i can't find one

But noticed you potting SPS

Supporters like you ..... FMD

We beat a hapless side in Essendon.

If you're celebrating this, you're the kind of supporter that a club's bank account loves but nobody else respects. 1-8 is not the time to brag mate. You won't win this argument.

The most encouraging thing from Saturday was Bolton's spray on Baguley and a few green shoots. Not to mention having, statistically, the game's best ever contested beast dominating the game. Encouraging, but please let's not crack open the champagne just yet. Settle down please and stop antagonising.

 

[thylacine60]

We beat a hapless side in Essendon.

If you're celebrating this, you're the kind of supporter that a club's bank account loves but nobody else respects. 1-8 is not the time to brag mate. You won't win this argument.

The most encouraging thing from Saturday was Bolton's spray on Baguley and a few green shoots. Not to mention having, statistically, the game's best ever contested beast dominating the game. Encouraging, but please let's not crack open the champagne just yet. Settle down please and stop antagonising.

Caro: "I'm staggered"

 

[Aphrodite]

Oh wow.

 

[Arr0w]

We beat a hapless side in Essendon.

If you're celebrating this, you're the kind of supporter that a club's bank account loves but nobody else respects. 1-8 is not the time to brag mate. You won't win this argument.

The most encouraging thing from Saturday was Bolton's spray on Baguley and a few green shoots. Not to mention having, statistically, the game's best ever contested beast dominating the game. Encouraging, but please let's not crack open the champagne just yet. Settle down please and stop antagonising.

Another win/loss ratio analyst, how compelling

Thought I would go back and check your posts, in case I was being too harsh on you, alas your last 30 odd posts are stained with negativity. You seemed to be a balanced poster in the past, not sure what has made you so bitter of late, perhaps it is the frustration of your expectations.

My money is well spent. If you are not happy, ask for a refund and walk away. Before you do though, have the courage to walk into the club to share your insight, I am sure they will be captivated

You, like many others of late, are the barnacles on the ass of progress

 

[Aphrodite]

We beat a hapless side in Essendon.

If you're celebrating this, you're the kind of supporter that a club's bank account loves but nobody else respects. 1-8 is not the time to brag mate. You won't win this argument.

The most encouraging thing from Saturday was Bolton's spray on Baguley and a few green shoots. Not to mention having, statistically, the game's best ever contested beast dominating the game. Encouraging, but please let's not crack open the champagne just yet. Settle down please and stop antagonising.

Talk about antagonising!

Hey Arrow,

Just popping in to check the final scores?

Last time we spoke, you were happy with the performance... we must have almost won.

Regards,
Blues fan without blue tinted glasses

 

[Aphrodite]

Another win/loss ratio analyst, how compelling

Thought I would go back and check your posts, in case I was being too harsh on you alas your last 30 odd posts are stained with negativity. You seemed to be a balanced poster in the past, not sure what has made you so bitter of late, perhaps it is the frustration of your expectations.

My money is well spent. If you are not happy, ask for a refund and walk away. Before you do though, have the courage to walk into the club to share your insight, I am sure they will be captivated

You, like many others of late, are the barnacles on the ass of progress

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/jacob-weitering-criticism-is-unfair-or-fair.1189382/page-30

 

[Arr0w]

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/jacob-weitering-criticism-is-unfair-or-fair.1189382/page-30

Nothing positive in there

 

[Gethelred]

I analyse Carlton because I love the club and want it to succeed. I post criticism on here not to revel in our failures but to try and highlight our deficencies so we can improve.

Here's the trick, though. You might not revel in our failures, but you certainly do when you feel you have been proven right, especially over someone you've had a run in with before.

And you're not gunshy to have a crack at the poster ahead of the post.

Here's an idea; if they attack you, report the post. Argue the point, rather than go like a bull at a gate when someone has a go at you, because your posting is littered with examples of people attacking your post and you responding like it was a personal attack.

Above and beyond all else, describing yourself as 'a blues fan without rose tinted glasses' or referring to others as deluded is not how you prove your points correct. If your points are good, they have evidence to support them. Use that, instead of rhetoric that sounds good and sets up a diametry where the only positions available are yours and those that disagree with you.

 

[Soapy V]

We beat a hapless side in Essendon.

IMO that shows a complete lack of understanding of where we are at. Yes, Essendon are poor atm but so have we been. If you saw the excitement and confidence in the kids after the game you wouldn't question it. It meant so much. Sometimes the tough ugly wins in adverse times can mean so much more than just winning on ability.

IMO it was such an important win on so many levels. What stood out for me was it was our "kids" that stood up when we needed them. Some really special moments

Can't see anything but positives from such a performance.

 

[Toddski]

IMO that shows a complete lack of understanding of where we are what it means. Yes, Essendon are poor atm but so have we been. If you saw the excitement and confidence in the kids after the game you wouldn't question it. It meant so much. Sometimes the tough ugly wins in adverse times can mean so much more than just winning on ability.

IMO it was such an important win on so many levels. What stood out for me was it was our "kids" that stood up when we needed them. Some really special moments

Can't see anything but positives from such a performance.

Definitely positive to win. That's not my point.

Using this one win as ammo to take a pot shot at me for being critical of the club lately. Ridiculous. That's my point.

Echo chamber in here though, so I'm wasting my breath. Keep patting each other on the back and ignoring the facts.

In reference to the other poster above. I don't need to write evidence down. Look at the ladder and look at our performances over the last decade. Read the first hand experiences of Carlton supporters and our so called "leaders". Something has stunk at this club for some time now. Accept it, rectify it and move on.

 

[Soapy V]

Definitely positive to win. That's not my point.

Using this one win as ammo to take a pot shot at me for being critical of the club lately. Ridiculous. That's my point.

Echo chamber in here though, so I'm wasting my breath. Keep patting each other on the back and ignoring the facts.

IMO that's what causing the angst. Firstly, stop making it personal and then stop assuming people don't know what's happening. Most people realise where we are at and the issues we have at the moment. That's why it was such a good win.

 

[HARKER]

IMO that shows a complete lack of understanding of where we are what it means. Yes, Essendon are poor atm but so have we been. If you saw the excitement and confidence in the kids after the game you wouldn't question it. It meant so much. Sometimes the tough ugly wins in adverse times can mean so much more than just winning on ability.

IMO it was such an important win on so many levels. What stood out for me was it was our "kids" that stood up when we needed them. Some really special moments

Can't see anything but positives from such a performance.

Essendon are currently exactly where I don't want to see us end up, again.

It doesn't matter how much talent you stack up when a 'every man/woman for him/her self' prevails or is allowed to evolve.
How Essendon felt compelled to sign Worsfold on for another two years after one game this year, needs to have a spotlight put on it.

Please Carlton. Let's never, ever open up situations that lead us into that quagmire again.

 

[Coops93]

Possibly Taylor Walker banning Lever from B&F for "disloyalty" while schmoozing Gibbs to leave Carlton at the same time?

Hypocritical d***head with the maturity of a peanut.

It's not quite as simple as that though is it. There were a fair few issues with Lever regarding his attitude about the whole thing. He was apparently bragging to his teammates about how much money he was going to make leaving Adelaide among other things. It was much, much more than just his leaving Walker took issue with. Also it wasn't only him that took issue with Jake, he was just the most publicly vocal, as the captain would be.

Didn't see him have any issues when Cameron or Dangerfield left, both of whom are bigger losses to Adelaide than Jake Lever.

 

[Soapy V]

Essendon are currently exactly where I don't want to see us end up, again.

It doesn't matter how much talent you stack up when a 'every man/woman for him/her self' evolves or is allowed to evolve.
How Essendon felt compelled to sign Worsfold on for another two years after one game this year, needs to have a spotlight put on it.

Please Carlton. Let's never, ever open up situations that lead us into that quagmire again.

It's taken us 15 years or so to finally start moving past the salary cap issue. This drugs issue will last with them for 20 years or more. It's bigger and more destructive than people realise

 

[HARKER]

It's taken us 15 years or so to finally start moving past the salary cap issue. This drugs issue will last with them for 20 years or more. It's bigger and more destructive than people realise

Essendons problems are their problems. I for one don't readily subscribe to shadenfreude, but have been concerned that our club could fall into our bad ways again. Every little win points us in a better direction and may keep some wolves at bay.

I just want to see us come through this difficult period and not just remain unified but to grow our status as a club. That would be.....nice.

 

[Toddski]

Essendons problems are their problems. I for one don't readily subscribe to shadenfreude, but have been concerned that our club could fall into our bad ways again. Every little win points us in a better direction and may keep some wolves at bay.

I just want to see us come through this difficult period and not just remain unified but to grow our status as a club. That would be.....nice.

It would be nice. I believe we will because I rate SOS and I think our new leaders will change the culture significantly.

Soapy I'm not the one making this personal. None of my initial comments are directed at posters. I speak openly about are strengths and failures. Shooting down and harassing posters for having a critical opinion is not the way forward. When it gets to a point where other posters feel more comfortable private messaging me their support, rather than risk being bullied on a forum, then you know something isn't right. I think we have a culture on this board, similar to the club has had over the past decade.

 

[Arr0w]

Definitely positive to win. That's not my point.

Using this one win as ammo to take a pot shot at me for being critical of the club lately. Ridiculous. That's my point.

Echo chamber in here though, so I'm wasting my breath. Keep patting each other on the back and ignoring the facts.

In reference to the other poster above. I don't need to write evidence down. Look at the ladder and look at our performances over the last decade. Read the first hand experiences of Carlton supporters and our so called "leaders". Something has stunk at this club for some time now. Accept it, rectify it and move on.

Toddski, this is what really irks me

"I post criticism on here not to revel in our failures but to try and highlight our deficiencies so we can improve" A fair and reasonable statement, but then your solution is to trade a number 1 pick player, with stats showing no one comes close to him as a KPP in their first 2 years in the game over the last 10 years, to trade him for what ever we can get? You call that a constructive solution?

"Further, if you want to create a community online, where supporters feel heard, then belittling and ganging up on individual posters for having opinions you disagree with, is not the best strategy."

"Echo chamber in here though, so I'm wasting my breath. Keep patting each other on the back and ignoring the facts."

As opposed to suggesting we have "Blue Tinted Glasses on", because our opinion differs from a small section of supporters?

"positive genius" arrow

I have been a member for 43 years, I have seen the great and the pathetic

You really have no idea, perhaps go back and view all my posts. I am and will be critical if I believe it is warranted

For many years, through the Pagan and Malthouse appointments, I was extremely critical, of coaching, development and especially list management/recruiting.

Yet, over the last 2 or so years, I see the courage of our club, to remove many of the internal anchors as well committing, for the first time to a professionally planned rebuild. As such I believe we are on the right path, I could not give a stuff about the upcoming speed humps, I have always been concerned with the mindset, a mindset, which has finally changed for the better.

"Look at the ladder and look at our performances over the last decade"

You are entitled to live in the past, which I guess explains you missing the small ongoing positives, perhaps draw a line when SOS and Bolton entered the club, it may help you with what we are undertaking

Lastly, you are happy to take a pot shot at me after the Crows game, then cry foul when I return serve?

Have any opinion you want, be as brutal as you want to be, but be prepared for a counter argument

Edited: More than happy to take this private, or give you my number, to discuss it, so there are no misconceptions

 

[Gethelred]

Echo chamber in here though, so I'm wasting my breath. Keep patting each other on the back and ignoring the facts.

That paragraph is exactly what I'm talking about; you're setting up a purely black/white dichotomy, in which you are on the side of good and all who disagree with you, regardless of why they disagree with you or the differences in why they disagree, are not.

In reference to the other poster above. I don't need to write evidence down. Look at the ladder and look at our performances over the last decade. Read the first hand experiences of Carlton supporters and our so called "leaders". Something has stunk at this club for some time now. Accept it, rectify it and move on.

Intellectually lazy to refuse to argue with me on the basis that I can 'look to the ladder and our performances over the last decade', because I have. Like most who are on here, I watch the games; I despaired when we recruited Malthouse, when he sold away our forward line for a series of worse replacements, when we truly bottomed out and got rid of him. I've watched Bolton, and I've observed time and time again that a rebuild, ie the selling off of resources slowly and targeting the right talent through the draft is the only means teams have become successful sustainably outside of father/sons, COLA, Priority picks and Academy selections. I'll continue to argue for my points, because it's worthwhile to do so.

By refusing to argue with me, you are condemning this place to truly become an echo chamber; by playing the man not the ball, you are refusing to argue your point and instead arguing your personality over mine, and sorry to say mate but you aren't that interesting a read. Windhover's a chance to beat most at that kind of thing, but you ain't him.