Review Rd 7 vs Collingwood: Post game discussion

[patfullfankezz]

Swan having to go to ff should have been a positive for us. It gave our midfielders the chance to compete without the presence of one of the premier on ballers in the competition. We just didn't take advantage of the opportunity. I do think this is the type of game where our young and inexperienced midfielders will learn a lot about what is required at the top level.

Gonna go out on a bit of a limb here, and state that maybe the players could have done something about that. Surely one of the defenders could have seen Swan move to FF and quickly said to Raines "Here, take my opponent, I think you'd better stay in the midfield." Start taking the initiative and read the play a bit better. Maybe if one player starts showing that sort of leadership, the others will follow. Start them talking to each other and taking ownership of their roles within the team.

 

[acuguy]

kezza, spot on! That is what the best teams do,they make those decisions on the field without the coaching staff being involved. We are a fair way off having the nous to or confidence to do this.

 

[Gibbo_88]

Re: Lions v Collingwood

In association football terms we seem to be "parking the bus" we set up too many men behind the ball and do bugger all offensive running because we have no confidence in being able to hit targets, maintain possession or see a man on the lead up the ground because they are all hiding around defensive 50 which means a more skilled team has heaps of options to toy with us until they get a scoring shot. If they do by chance lose the ball we have no options up the ground to release pressure so we just end up resetting their attack and giving them another f50 entry.

Yes, yes and yes. After 15 minutes into the first quarter when we were getting slammed and it was locked in our defensive 50 I started looking at where our players were positioned up the ground when we got the ball back and who moved up the ground quickly when we were on the end of a turnover and who was in a position to run ahead of the footy. It was a pathetic effort, so many of our midfielders were running at about 50% speed early in the game when we needed them to sprint so we never had numbers at the contests on the wing. It looks like a team shot for confidence and that some players were thinking along the lines of 'why sprint up the field when we're just going to turn it over and I'll have to run back here anyway'.

I think we're going to see just about every team try to lock us in their forward 50, 2 weeks in a row its proven that if you can do it for a quarter we go into our shells and our midfielders confidence plummets. The only thing I can get out of our game plan is it looks like our focus is to flood.

I've always been a big fan of Polks so haven't been as p'd off about his games as others but last night was it for me. When you see someone stuff up a kick or handball, its great when they have that bit of extra energy to try get the ball back but his body language was pretty bad.

Was a huge positive to see Longer play a full game when he looked exhausted last week. Cameron Wood really should have been able to dominate Longer. Everyone knows he is a very average ruck but he has a fair bit of experience and should be able to handle a 1st year player so that was great work by Longer last night.

Had someone sitting two rows back that was a 50/50 mix of Hammo and LR44 who provided the entertainment for the night. He was saying how badly we had stuffed up our drafting the last few years on Redden and Polec, how useless Raines, Maguire and Staker were while also carrying on about all our players not manning up the second there was a turnover.

 

[Zhesty]

I would bring Hudson back in to do the majority of the rucking and get Merritt to give him a bit of help. Losing Mitch was always going to make these things tough.

 

[Bucking Beads]

I would bring Hudson back in to do the majority of the rucking and get Merritt to give him a bit of help. Losing Mitch was always going to make these things tough.

But then we still won't have Merrett down back.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I wish the rest of our team was as composed and smart as 19 year old Jared Polec. Anyone else notice how cool he is under pressure?

 

[Milk Steak]

I wish the rest of our team was as composed and smart as 19 year old Jared Polec. Anyone else notice how cool he is under pressure?

Too many guys in our side play like they're holding a hand grenade at the moment,shit themselves and just wanna get rid of to anyone. They just need to get some composure and not have "just boot it" as the only thing in their head

 

[Grimreepah]

I still feel uncomfortable with all three of Merrett, Maguire and Patfull in the team. IMO the only position that either of them can play is as a lock down key defender. And the maximum number of those in a team should be two. There seems to be a reluctance to drop any one of them, and we've played them in different positions to squeeze them all in, but it hasn't worked. Rather than keeping them there because they don't deserve to be dropped, I would rather put more of an emphasis on getting the right balance.

 

[The Golfing Lion]

Well done to the mods for starting this thread up. Might just wait a day and check for this each loss from now on.

I think that whatever the coaching staff can do to have Merritt back at fullback needs to be done. McGuire looks to have secured his position to share the 2 talks with him with Patfull the 3rd tall releasing Drummond to roam up the wing.

If we get the defence stable I think we have enough tall forward options with Brown, Pat K and Ace up forward now. The Merritt move was an option when Brown was injured but I think it has compromised our defence to much to remain an ongoing option.

 

[Last of the Roys]

Just to pick on one player - Polkinghorne - what is the point of him being in the team?

Doesn't win the ball. Is slow. His tackling his OK, but we need players that can win the ball first or keep up with their opponents. In 2009 he was good as a lead up forward, but I haven't seen that in him for years.

Someone called him a list clogger on the thread last night. It may be a bit harsh, but I was yelling the same thing at my T.V.

Yeah he is not alone in that. I have to say I was also less than impressed with Harwood again - he seems to be developing in a similar mould to Polkinghorne - has very little fitness / ability to actually get to a contest.

And that is our number one biggest problem at the moment - being constantly out numbered at every single contest all over the ground because we don't have the run / fitness / drive to push ourselves up and back all day long like modern footy requires.

I would much rather we play Beams and / or Bartlett. It may not fix the problem, but I know the status quo definitely won't so I want to see what they might be able to do about it.

 

[Last of the Roys]

And just to add something to my own point. It is not like our main midfielders are ultra elite in terms of their running / fitness ability. Leaving Black to one side - Rich, Rockliff, and to a lesser degree Redden all have issues in terms of getting to all of the contests they need to.

Of course they are still good players and have many other good attributes. But that doesn't help us win a contest when we are always outnumbered.

That is why I think Beams, Bartlett, and Zorko might be able to help. I have heard they all good at winning the ball - and they seem like they should be more suited to building that fitness / running base that we need.

 

[thoselionslads]

Longer battled well, but will need time to develop an understanding with the mids. Hit outs even with Wood, but didn't seem to be a whole heap going to advantage. Although this did improve in the 2nd half.

I was amazed at how many times we fumbled. Not just one person, but pretty much everyone. And at the worst times. It's like the opportunity for a fast break causes them to lose their composure.

I think dumb footy is very deflating for the players, and can almost be contagious. We looked fairly rudderless, and I'm not sure how much the players develop as a team, or individually, when that's the case.

We all know that the ball at the Gabba' gets slippery and greasy, but at times it felt like the Pies had a dry ball and we had the same ball as the Cats game!

All of Collingwood's classy players were just so clean and efficient with their skills. Absolute class above us.

 

[Bucking Beads]

I still feel uncomfortable with all three of Merrett, Maguire and Patfull in the team. IMO the only position that either of them can play is as a lock down key defender. And the maximum number of those in a team should be two. There seems to be a reluctance to drop any one of them, and we've played them in different positions to squeeze them all in, but it hasn't worked. Rather than keeping them there because they don't deserve to be dropped, I would rather put more of an emphasis on getting the right balance.

Agree with this and it is causing quite a problem IMO. Only time these 3 should be in the same side is when we play an extremely tall side like West Coast and Maybe Geelong and Hawthorn??

 

[iBeng]

Just thought id add this little note from an article I just read on the lions site:

In fact, the Lions’ Round 7 team will be made up of seven players who have played less than 25 AFL matches, and 11 players with less than 50 games of senior experience.

In comparison, the Magpies will field a side with just three players with less than 25 games experience and only five with 50 matches or less

So 18 under 50 players vs 8 under 50 players. Thats a pretty significant gap, when you consider experience, time spent playing as a group and maturity.

 

[Jimmy Two Hands]

I still feel uncomfortable with all three of Merrett, Maguire and Patfull in the team. IMO the only position that either of them can play is as a lock down key defender. And the maximum number of those in a team should be two. There seems to be a reluctance to drop any one of them, and we've played them in different positions to squeeze them all in, but it hasn't worked. Rather than keeping them there because they don't deserve to be dropped, I would rather put more of an emphasis on getting the right balance.

Bingo. Patfull out for mine.

 

[JasRulz63]

We left Cornelius out of the side for a long time because his work rate wasn't up to scratch, and not applying enough defensive pressure. How is Karnezis in this regard? Particularly in applying enough pressure. Haven't see much of the Lions this year with no Foxtel and being in Melbourne. Saw the Essendon game (unfortunately), but he came on late as the sub.

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

I still feel uncomfortable with all three of Merrett, Maguire and Patfull in the team. IMO the only position that either of them can play is as a lock down key defender. And the maximum number of those in a team should be two. There seems to be a reluctance to drop any one of them, and we've played them in different positions to squeeze them all in, but it hasn't worked. Rather than keeping them there because they don't deserve to be dropped, I would rather put more of an emphasis on getting the right balance.

Agreed. The only argument that counters this is Merrett being up there to ruck. He is no great ruck & does very little as a forward. I'd be far more comfortable with FB: Sauce CHB: Goose & Joel being given a spell. Bring in Lisle to play forward/back up ruck.

 

[kylegee28]

A question for those at the game or who were paying very close attention to the coverage.

During the 3rd quarter (I think), was Blacky playing in the forward 50?

The coverage seemed to show that he was already there when the ball was coming in, and he looked fantastic down there.

 

[Milk Steak]

Agreed. The only argument that counters this is Merrett being up there to ruck. He is no great ruck & does very little as a forward. I'd be far more comfortable with FB: Sauce CHB: Goose & Joel being given a spell. Bring in Lisle to play forward/back up ruck.

Spot on. I don't just get annoyed with Merrett being up forward because he isn't a goal threat, the move also annoys me because he is pretty ineffective as a ruck,so I don't see the point. Lisle is the closest thing we have to forward/ruck and I'm not overly bothered that he isn't in amazing form,give him a couple of games and see if he flourishes

 

[Last of the Roys]

Just thought id add this little note from an article I just read on the lions site:

..

So 18 under 50 players vs 8 under 50 players. Thats a pretty significant gap, when you consider experience, time spent playing as a group and maturity.

I haven't looked at the actual numbers myself this week (I did last week), but it is not cumulative. It is just 11 of our team who have played less than 50 games (7 of those 11 having played less than 25) vs. 5 from Collingwood (3 of those 5 with less than 25 games).

Anyway, it is still a huge gap.

 

[jackess]

I liked McGrath being released further up the field. Still drifted in and out of the game but his speed and agility really stood out.

 

[weevil]

I still feel uncomfortable with all three of Merrett, Maguire and Patfull in the team. IMO the only position that either of them can play is as a lock down key defender. And the maximum number of those in a team should be two. There seems to be a reluctance to drop any one of them, and we've played them in different positions to squeeze them all in, but it hasn't worked. Rather than keeping them there because they don't deserve to be dropped, I would rather put more of an emphasis on getting the right balance.

This is one of the points I have been trying to make for a while. People keep on blindly saying that Big Red has to go back without realising that it causes significant issues with the structure of the side.

Not having Mitch any more really changes things.

 

[Balony_pony16]

I liked McGrath being released further up the field. Still drifted in and out of the game but his speed and agility really stood out.

I agree...he looked a real class player at times. Give him a heap of games forward and see what form he can play himself into

 

[Lockie]

This is one of the points I have been trying to make for a while. People keep on blindly saying that Big Red has to go back without realising that it causes significant issues with the structure of the side.

Not having Mitch any more really changes things.

But if Merrett is not being effective as a forward or a second ruck then what is the point? Better to keep him in the position which he was in the running for All Australian last year before being injured.

The last three games we have been totally smashed in the first quarter. We then end up playing catch up footy for the rest of the night. Aren't we best to try and keep our best backman in his best position and try and get some settled structure to our game?

I like Ash being down in the forward line. He added some spark and zip when he was there.

 

[Shaka]

I want to raise a few areas I see as causing our non-competitiveness:

Mindset - the team is playing as the hunted and not the hunter. There is a lack of self belief which is being fed internally. Comparing the average age/number of games is an excuse not to put in the level best. Contrast this with GWS who go out with an attitude of trying to win against all odds;

Lack of leadership in the midfield - Blacky is a good footballer but I don't think he is that vocal to command the troops in the middle. Leading by example has it's place but we need a commander in that area to grab the youngsters together and guide them through. Jonno does that with the forwards and for this reason, I'd rather Merrett goes back as he is the 'General' in the backline. Goose doesn't ooze that much authority I don't think but we need some attitude in the middle;

Individualism - it appears that there are two teams in there; those with contracts beyond this year with the aim of getting more and more game-time and those hoping to cling to a spot next year. Of the later, I reckon there are three groups - certainties to go like Buchanan, Stiller & Bewick, the most likely (Hawksley, Sheldon, Hudson & Black - the last two may just call it a day) and the likely, Acorn, Rezty. While it's inevitable that some players will leave, playing from a position of trying to prove you are worth another contract can create individualistic approaches.

Workrate: There always seems to more opposition players in contests and our players ain't just working hard enough. Yesterday, we were smashed in the first term because our guys were all reactive and the Pies worked hard, especially young Sinclair who seemed very hungry for the footy. With the exception of Rich and Redden, and later when Zorko came on, I just didn't see that level of intensity. Banfield tried although skills let him down.