Review Rd 7 vs Collingwood: Post game discussion

[weevil]

But if Merrett is not being effective as a forward or a second ruck then what is the point? Better to keep him in the position which he was in the running for All Australian last year before being injured.

The last three games we have been totally smashed in the first quarter. We then end up playing catch up footy for the rest of the night. Aren't we best to try and keep our best backman in his best position and try and get some settled structure to our game?

I like Ash being down in the forward line. He added some spark and zip when he was there.

I don’t entirely disagree at all.

But it’s not like we are getting smashed by opposition KPFs. In a team that has been getting flogged Goose has been doing a great job. Big Red might do a little better, but it is just not a major weakness for us.

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

I don’t entirely disagree at all.

But it’s not like we are getting smashed by opposition KPFs. In a team that has been getting flogged Goose has been doing a great job. Big Red might do a little better, but it is just not a major weakness for us.

Where it becomes a weakness is in the development aspect of the side. I don't think anyone expects our long term spine to have 2 undersized kpd's & a kpf that's better than both of them down back. If, as is widely acknowledged, the current setup is a stop gap, we would be better off putting Lisle up forward to play the backup ruck/kpf role, and learn something from the experience. The continuance of the current plan seems to be wasting valuable game time. Imo If we're going to get hammered, we should at least try'n get something out of it.

 

[weevil]

Where it becomes a weakness is in the development aspect of the side. I don't think anyone expects our long term spine to have 2 undersized kpd's & a kpf that's better than both of them down back. If, as is widely acknowledged, the current setup is a stop gap, we would be better off putting Lisle up forward to play the backup ruck/kpf role, and learn something from the experience. The continuance of the current plan seems to be wasting valuable game time. Imo If we're going to get hammered, we should at least try'n get something out of it.

Until very recently Lisle has not been performing well at reserves level so has not really been a genuine option. Agree that now it may be worth giving him a shot

I think the other big long term development issue is getting games into McKeever.

 

[Milk Steak]

Where it becomes a weakness is in the development aspect of the side. I don't think anyone expects our long term spine to have 2 undersized kpd's & a kpf that's better than both of them down back. If, as is widely acknowledged, the current setup is a stop gap, we would be better off putting Lisle up forward to play the backup ruck/kpf role, and learn something from the experience. The continuance of the current plan seems to be wasting valuable game time. Imo If we're going to get hammered, we should at least try'n get something out of it.

Agree. If as people say,we are building for the future and results are not so important, why the stop gap measure of Merrett playing forward if it is generally acknowledged that it is not a future position for him. What better time to give a young tall time in the AFL than now

 

[karix]

The good...

- This thread. Great idea I thoroughly approve.
- Having someone on the forward line with actual goal sense (Karni)
- Maguire on Cloak
- Raines on Swan (FF match up excluded)
- The effort we put in the 2nd and 3rd Qs especially the 3rd
- Blacky creeping forward. I liked it, just having some more composure up there was great.
- I like Hawksley's effort, but damn I liked Zorko's more. He was hard at the ball and quick with good delivery.
- Longer was great, as he builds his tank he'll be more of an asset around the ground too.
- Watching Maxwell shank two kicks in a row coming out of defense
- We had a bunch of collywobble drunks invade the Lions members seating to rub the loss into us and I had the cops kick them out. Highlight of my night.

The bad..

- Huge amount fumbles and basic ball skills (especially under pressure)
- Lack of run. I think this is partially confidence, but we need to get more men to the contest without being stupid about it (IE pointless flooding)
- Lack of accountability for your opponent. Twice I was watching Rich giving orders and directing traffic while his opponent floated off him and took a mark. Happened to Banfield as well.
- Awareness. We need more of it. I think I saw Hanley have a handball fired at him that he had no idea was coming - which gave them a turn over.
- Lack of clean hands
- Lack of anyone wanting to actually take responsibility and try something, it was like watching them play hot potato sometimes
- Woeful handballs - hit the target, grab it first time, make sure your target is on your team, only handball to a man who is ready to receive one, don't do big loopy handballs.
- The umpiring. Wouldn't have changed the result but god there were some bad/inconsistent calls (The Shaw Incident being a prime example)

The options...

- Big red needs to be in defense, I don't care if he kicked a great goal, I would rather someone else be kicking it. This means we have to play Longer and Huddo. Which won't always be an option, so one of the other tall forwards will need to do badly in the ruck for us, or maybe McKeever?

- I'm not sure if Lisle is big enough to play in the ruck, I got the impression he's got a bit of a light frame?

- Ace and Karni both need to be developed as soon as possible. We can't do one then the other, but we cant keep them both in the forward line, as our forward line would be too tall. Karni was playing half back in the ressies, could he do it in the firsts? Do we even have room for him there?

- Continue with Ash in the forward line with Banfield and Zorko. There is potential there they need time to gel though and learn how to work together.

 

[blynd_freddie]

The good...

- This thread. Great idea I thoroughly approve.
- Having someone on the forward line with actual goal sense (Karni)
- Maguire on Cloak
- Raines on Swan (FF match up excluded)
- The effort we put in the 2nd and 3rd Qs especially the 3rd
- Blacky creeping forward. I liked it, just having some more composure up there was great.
- I like Hawksley's effort, but damn I liked Zorko's more. He was hard at the ball and quick with good delivery.
- Longer was great, as he builds his tank he'll be more of an asset around the ground too.
- Watching Maxwell shank two kicks in a row coming out of defense
- We had a bunch of collywobble drunks invade the Lions members seating to rub the loss into us and I had the cops kick them out. Highlight of my night.

The bad..

- Huge amount fumbles and basic ball skills (especially under pressure)
- Lack of run. I think this is partially confidence, but we need to get more men to the contest without being stupid about it (IE pointless flooding)
- Lack of accountability for your opponent. Twice I was watching Rich giving orders and directing traffic while his opponent floated off him and took a mark. Happened to Banfield as well.
- Awareness. We need more of it. I think I saw Hanley have a handball fired at him that he had no idea was coming - which gave them a turn over.
- Lack of clean hands
- Lack of anyone wanting to actually take responsibility and try something, it was like watching them play hot potato sometimes
- Woeful handballs - hit the target, grab it first time, make sure your target is on your team, only handball to a man who is ready to receive one, don't do big loopy handballs.
- The umpiring. Wouldn't have changed the result but god there were some bad/inconsistent calls (The Shaw Incident being a prime example)

The options...

- Big red needs to be in defense, I don't care if he kicked a great goal, I would rather someone else be kicking it. This means we have to play Longer and Huddo. Which won't always be an option, so one of the other tall forwards will need to do badly in the ruck for us, or maybe McKeever?

- I'm not sure if Lisle is big enough to play in the ruck, I got the impression he's got a bit of a light frame?

- Ace and Karni both need to be developed as soon as possible. We can't do one then the other, but we cant keep them both in the forward line, as our forward line would be too tall. Karni was playing half back in the ressies, could he do it in the firsts? Do we even have room for him there?

- Continue with Ash in the forward line with Banfield and Zorko. There is potential there they need time to gel though and learn how to work together.

YEP!

Also, gotta love “first gamers intensity”!!

Wish it could be bottled and run out at every break in play with the powerade – oh and while we’re on magic potions, a mixture of experience and skills in the other bottle would not go astray either!

 

[PTizzle]

Re: Lions v Collingwood

Thought we missed Ace last night.

Agreed. Maguire was very good, granted, but Merrett back in defense with him and Ace up forward looks a lot more suitable. I think Ace would have kicked 2+ which is reasonable.

Goose is great. I'm a fan but I do call for his head, but he tends to deny me by producing a good performance. He seems to love the club - I have no doubt the younger blokes do too, but Goose has the experience to back it up.

Stiller deserves his 100th against GWS and Zorko should play a full game. I'm not notching it in as a win, just another game, but these are the kind of situations which allow this.

Bartlett or Polkinghorne as the sub. Banfield should probably be out but probably won't be and may have a field day against GWS. This I don't mind as he seems to be a confidence player. As long as Voss puts glue on his hands I'm sure he'll do okay.

I like McGrath up forward and would stick with him. Have seen a lot of calls to trade him, perhaps kneejerk, but he has worked hard for the club and makes a good small forward, something of which we are desperately in need of. That's despite the fact he'd have little to no currency on the market going on evidence. I think he has the capability to kick 40 goals in a season if given an extended run.

Speaking of which, we need to give players that run. It's crap losing like this. But it's going to be more crap if we change 5 times a week and still lose like this with no structure.

Voss isn't a bad coach as far as I've noticed. He is just soft, which is bizarre given his playing career. Watching Bluey McKenna they seem a bit alike. I was reading an article today about a 7 year Gold Coast coaching contract for Voss back in 2008 or so and had a chuckle. If he gets the hard edge out he could easily be a decent to good coach, the playing group seems to love him and he has the cattle if he can work out how to use them.

A lot of blather which I'll probably contradict soon, but I'm not in as terrible spirits as I thought I might be a day after the Pies loss. To be honest the biggest thing I'm worried about is how little we're scoring, and other clubs are in the same boat.

EDIT:

I wish the rest of our team was as composed and smart as 19 year old Jared Polec. Anyone else notice how cool he is under pressure?

For reals, he is going to be a bloody star. A fantastic pick. You'd expect someone at a pick like him to come in and do something but he has done above and beyond.

I won't write too many more words (my keyboard broke and I bought a new one to ramble, it seems ) so I'll just say great posts by IanHaso, PatfullFankeez

I still feel uncomfortable with all three of Merrett, Maguire and Patfull in the team. IMO the only position that either of them can play is as a lock down key defender. And the maximum number of those in a team should be two. There seems to be a reluctance to drop any one of them, and we've played them in different positions to squeeze them all in, but it hasn't worked. Rather than keeping them there because they don't deserve to be dropped, I would rather put more of an emphasis on getting the right balance.

It's unfair to Patfull somewhat, because he hasn't been bad (in fact, apart from last weekend he has been very good imo), but I agree. We can't carry so many talls and until Leuey comes back we need to work out a realistic solution to our forward 50. Merrett is a stopgap and has done as well as can be expected, but he is a fantastic defender and that cannot be denied. It's time to bring in a genuine forward who can play ruck. Although stocks are as thin as Charlie cooking his family cabbage soup, Voss needs to make the call.

Looking at our team we have a lot of small to medium backmen and a lot of talls (although not young KPD's, which should be recognised). We seem to be playing far too many backs and although blokes like Adock can make it in the midfield and McGrath can kick goals it does need to be addressed.

There's also a lot of tall-ish players on our list. Crisp should be the prototype for this. The boy isn't small, as I'm sure many have noticed, but plays midfield easily and can kick (or at least at) goals. Karnezis is another candidate to step up.

In short, we need to keep McGrath up forward. Weevil has made good points throughout the thread. Talls need to be re-assessed and the midfield, well, frankly needs a rocket up them. Let Harvey be the bad guy if needs be.

Absolutely rambling now, sorry mods.

 

[cmt26]

Biggest positive to come out of the game was Zorko getting a game at last. This now means that we don't have to put up with posters continually whingeing about him not playing seniors. One can only hope Bartlett gets a gig next week and we don't have to put up with anymore arguments about team selection that lack any logic and sense.

 

[Crazy_Webby]

I think Simon Black should spend more time in the forward line. The few times it came in when he was up there he gathered the crumb every time and had a shot on goal.

 

[troppo]

I think Simon Black should spend more time in the forward line. The few times it came in when he was up there he gathered the crumb every time and had a shot on goal.

I totally agree. Perhaps it's just his class but he while he was down there he kicked one and could easily have kicked another two. He made it look a lot easier than the struggle the rest of them have had to get a score on the board.

 

[RU_]

We need Black in the centre though. We need to set a team, and keep it win/loss/draw. Get a single team playing together and playing well, rather than swapping everyone around week in week out.