Autopsy Rd 8 vs Dogs - 16 point loss. Let's not sugar coat it ... we choked!

Who played well for the Blues in Round 8 vs the Dogs?


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jj1978

Norm Smith Medallist
May 11, 2006
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It wasn't really a shootout style game yesterday. Until we sh*t the bed late in the 3rd they had 8 goals. Keep playing the way we were and they kick 11 or 12 goals.

It was one diabolical qtr where they flogged us and Teague was pretty pissed about it

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He was??? How many pieces of furniture got injured?
 

blue healer

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Or those who prefer to have an experienced coach with a proven track record guide us.
Besides the low scoring thing is really a bit of a myth.
If you look at his successful years, you can count on one hand the amount of times they scored below 50 points.
Only in last year's at Freo was there regular low scoring.
His Win- Loss record from 2008-2015 is excellent.

Good cherrypick here. At both clubs he coached he inherited a finals ready side and did what any reasonable coach would have with those lists.

How did he go after 2015 when he started to lose players?

Almost handpicked the time to leave the Saints because he saw the writing on the wall and I struggle to remember one player whose footy actually improved under Lyon. I'm sure you'll be able to find some but I don't reckon there'll be many.

Despite what looks like a good coaching record I don't want to see him at Carlton.
 

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Own The Future

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Nov 8, 2019
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Strangely enough, we aren't that far away, but, there needs to be some tweaks, mostly in mindset from the coaches box which I will detail a little later.
While it may be a simplistic view, I feel our main issue comes from the coaching. I like Teague and was a big proponent for his hiring after the interim period, but I find his temperament quite frustrating. Maybe it’s a generational thing - the modern footballer doesn’t want the ranting & raving coach, preferring a calmer influence - but I must say if that is the demeanour of the HC then the assistants need a bit of fire about them to offset it. Our coaching staff look too timid, too matesy, too complacent. Clearly I do not have any inside knowledge of what happens at training or behind the scenes, but who is revving up the team? Who is scolding a player who is underperforming or not following team rules? Who is holding people to account?
There are gaps in the team for sure, it’s not like a new coach will turn us into contenders overnight. Maybe the losing culture is just so ingrained that we don’t know what it takes to win. Yesterday was proof that a decent lead and control of the game was not enough. As soon as WB got a sniff, it was deer in the headlights stuff from us. The multiple goal runs is an absolute issue that Teague has had ample time to address. He’s had a whole offseason to implement strategies to combat it.
Anyway, what I’m saying is that our assistants are well past their used by dates. Look at Sydney’s coaching staff and you’ll see why their development looks light years ahead of ours. Multiple premiership winners, one on each line. We have ONE in Luke Power.
Something needs to be done. And fast.
 

Press Box Wing

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May 19, 2016
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So frustrated by Pittonet's ruck work the last two weeks but especially this week. So many times got a clean tap but almost every time to Dogs advantage. There seems to be no connection with his midfielders. The only time he was effective was when he grabbed it out of the ruck himself against his inexperienced opponent. I agree the midfield was ordinary but it wasn't entirely their fault. Surely TDK comes in for Pitto.
 
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Arr0w

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 13, 2015
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While it may be a simplistic view, I feel our main issue comes from the coaching. I like Teague and was a big proponent for his hiring after the interim period, but I find his temperament quite frustrating. Maybe it’s a generational thing - the modern footballer doesn’t want the ranting & raving coach, preferring a calmer influence - but I must say if that is the demeanour of the HC then the assistants need a bit of fire about them to offset it. Our coaching staff look too timid, too matesy, too complacent. Clearly I do not have any inside knowledge of what happens at training or behind the scenes, but who is revving up the team? Who is scolding a player who is underperforming or not following team rules? Who is holding people to account?
There are gaps in the team for sure, it’s not like a new coach will turn us into contenders overnight. Maybe the losing culture is just so ingrained that we don’t know what it takes to win. Yesterday was proof that a decent lead and control of the game was not enough. As soon as WB got a sniff, it was deer in the headlights stuff from us. The multiple goal runs is an absolute issue that Teague has had ample time to address. He’s had a whole offseason to implement strategies to combat it.
Anyway, what I’m saying is that our assistants are well past their used by dates. Look at Sydney’s coaching staff and you’ll see why their development looks light years ahead of ours. Multiple premiership winners, one on each line. We have ONE in Luke Power.
Something needs to be done. And fast.
We have to stop cherry picking these assistants from clubs that are currently up and about. Look at the Saints, changing their assistants in 2019, having a rise, now treading water again.

Our main issues go way beyond that, gamestyle, setups, player positions, that's where focus is needed
 

bigblueboy

Team Captain
Aug 20, 2007
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Can see everyone still hurting with the disappointment.
I loved Teague's response in the Presser about Eddie. "I don't give a stuff what the journo's think".
I feel for Teague. I think the game plan is sound. It is failure to implement and lack of players mental strength letting the team down
The game plan is sound if it aligns with the attributes of the players fulfilling it. At the moment, we have zero midfield defensive pressure and get killed on the outside - this results in high numbers of opposition forward 50s and ultimately big scores kicked against.
All opposition clubs know that if they breakeven in the initial contested situations, we are vulnerable. Outside of Curnow and Walsh, who of our mids work hard enough the other way?
Teague's game plan doesn't match our midfield skillset - Cripps, Cuningham, Williams, Setterfield, Dow, SPS, Stocker, O'Brien, Gibbons, Murphy, Kennedy, Fisher, Martin - who out of these would you say are hard-running defensive mids??
 

Percy2257

Give Me Back My Skateboard ?
May 11, 2019
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For those who are rationalising defeat in the belief that 'realistically' we were never going to beat the Dogs - what a cop-out.. could almost call it a Carlton cop-out. We were up by 5 goals late in the 3rd - regardless of your pre-game expectations, to lose from there is a failure.

The Stocker turnover was a howler - first the kick, then the handball... but it happens, esp to young players. More concerning is that I'm not sure Stock has hit a single short or medium pass yet. Kicking has been way off. I don't mind him in defence, presuming his kicking improves.

SPS with his 15m pass to the contest on the boundary when we were clinging to the lead - I literally couldn't believe what I was seeing.

You couldn't see it on TV, but Cas really screwed up with the ball at HB - had Cuningham loose and streaming through CHF/HF. Would have been a certain score and likely a goal bc we had them outnumbered. Cas goes wide to Gibbons who mind-blowingly goes the short chip to Fog for a contest, who then handballs to Bont and Dogs were away.

3 awful moments during the last qtr with blame squarely on the players - repeat offenders, at that.

There were plenty of other moments - Weiters had an amazing game but he still fluffs his kicks more than he should .. I reckon it's when he does the Buddy curve - two out on the full; not good enough. These are the little things that need to be ironed out. Doc so often just bangs it on his boot, and regularly panicking as well.

I want the Club to come out and tell us whether Cripps and ZWilliams are still hampered by injury and maybe even give some specifics - it would make the whole situation far more tolerable. Writing has been on the wall for Cripps - I said after last week that he was a genuine liability for chunks of the game. Same for most of yesterday. I don't buy that it's bc he's attempting 'superman' things - something else is going on... if there is nothing else to blame other than form, I can't recall a greater fall from grace. Zwilliams is a much much better player than what he has produced - surely he's carrying something. If they're playing him injured, at least put him in his comfort zone at HB.
Why don’t the journalists start being assertive, even a bit aggressive, in press conferences with Teague about injuries to key players. The journalists can refer to the annoyance and frustration of large numbers of fans as expressed on forums like this, Twitter and talk back radio.
The club gets away with too much BS.
 

FRUMPY

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We have to stop cherry picking these assistants from clubs that are currently up and about. Look at the Saints, changing their assistants in 2019, having a rise, now treading water again.

Our main issues go way beyond that, gamestyle, setups, player positions, that's where focus is needed
so coaching then?
 

Iamcarlton

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Oct 11, 2015
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Chopping and changing our targets up forward won't help much, if at all.

We need to address the issues in the middle as a priority.

I'd give Cripps the rest he clearly needs and use his omission to challenge the other guys to step up their games.
Whilst i agree about the midfield i slightly disagree about the forwardline although we are scoring freely at times we are still not getting enough forward pressure .
Low fwd 50 tackles again with 6 i feel we have too many slowish smalls running around up fwd Owies Betts to a lesser extent, Fogarty and Gibbons that cant put enough meaningful perceived pressure on the oppo especially in rundown situations .

I think Honey now and possibly Durdin in a few weeks would be a good move both can run down from behind which is what we need more of imo .
Given our unacountable midfield i actually think it is imperative to make it harder for the oppo to exit our 50 .
Personally think Gibbons is best used as a mid despite his early round brilliance .
I dont think he is being used in a way that is benefitting us now and would be the one id drop back for either Honey or Durdin to be given a few weeks .
 

Davey33

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Jun 21, 2017
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Good cherrypick here. At both clubs he coached he inherited a finals ready side and did what any reasonable coach would have with those lists.

How did he go after 2015 when he started to lose players?

Almost handpicked the time to leave the Saints because he saw the writing on the wall and I struggle to remember one player whose footy actually improved under Lyon. I'm sure you'll be able to find some but I don't reckon there'll be many.

Despite what looks like a good coaching record I don't want to see him at Carlton.
Some would argue Carlton are a finals ready side.
I'm not sure he'd be a good decision because on paper Malthouse had that great record also and we know how that turned out but still
Good cherrypick here. At both clubs he coached he inherited a finals ready side and did what any reasonable coach would have with those lists.

How did he go after 2015 when he started to lose players?



Almost handpicked the time to leave the Saints because he saw the writing on the wall and I struggle to remember one player whose footy actually improved under Lyon. I'm sure you'll be able to find some but I don't reckon there'll be many.

Despite what looks like a good coaching record I don't want to see him at Carlton.
Good cherrypick here. At both clubs he coached he inherited a finals ready side and did what any reasonable coach would have with those lists.

How did he go after 2015 when he started to lose players?

Almost handpicked the time to leave the Saints because he saw the writing on the wall and I struggle to remember one player whose footy actually improved under Lyon. I'm sure you'll be able to find some but I don't reckon there'll be many.

Despite what looks like a good coaching record I don't want to see him at Carlton.
 
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Percy2257

Give Me Back My Skateboard ?
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The game plan is sound if it aligns with the attributes of the players fulfilling it. At the moment, we have zero midfield defensive pressure and get killed on the outside - this results in high numbers of opposition forward 50s and ultimately big scores kicked against.
All opposition clubs know that if they breakeven in the initial contested situations, we are vulnerable. Outside of Curnow and Walsh, who of our mids work hard enough the other way?
Teague's game plan doesn't match our midfield skillset - Cripps, Cuningham, Williams, Setterfield, Dow, SPS, Stocker, O'Brien, Gibbons, Murphy, Kennedy, Fisher, Martin - who out of these would you say are hard-running defensive mids??
Let’s be realistic. We do not have enough talented, skilled players. That said, we only need 3 or so players of that ilk.
The club has to be ruthless and realistic at the trade table at the end of the year.

In the meantime let’s hope we stay toward the bottom of the table so we get a high draft pick and we should start blooding younger players like Durdin.
 

Broadside

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Jul 15, 2007
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Good cherrypick here. At both clubs he coached he inherited a finals ready side and did what any reasonable coach would have with those lists.

How did he go after 2015 when he started to lose players?

Almost handpicked the time to leave the Saints because he saw the writing on the wall and I struggle to remember one player whose footy actually improved under Lyon. I'm sure you'll be able to find some but I don't reckon there'll be many.

Despite what looks like a good coaching record I don't want to see him at Carlton.
I don't like his game style - at all - but for a tiny bit of luck he could have had 2 flags at St Kilda and for errant goal kicking, a flag at Freo. He is a good coach.
 

JustaBattler

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May 31, 2012
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The only players in VFL yesterday who looked AFL ready and had genuine superiority in play against their rivals were: Newman | Honey | TDK and Durdin - Ramsay did a few nice things and looks a future player but is way off the required sustainable efforts required - Carroll looked good in moments as well but coming back from a long spell off.

the standout blokes i would be investing AFL time into - right now are TDK and Honey - TDK because he plays like a great tap ruck and a very good mid around the ground and Honey because he has exceptional speed is a great set shot kick and has mongrel - Durdin will be playing a small forward role at some stage this year too I think.

As for Dow Lob and Setterfield - they weren't interested much yesterday is the best I can say....
 

Just Kreuzing

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It wasn't really a shootout style game yesterday. Until we sh*t the bed late in the 3rd they had 8 goals. Keep playing the way we were and they kick 11 or 12 goals.

It was one diabolical qtr where they flogged us and Teague was pretty pissed about it

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Talking more about Teague’s mindset and game plan, he stated pre match it would be a high scoring shootout type game and we need to score more than them....

He needs to get his own thought process and strategy on developing a better balance between offense & defense to keep them to a more manageable score.

5 times in 8 games we have conceded 100+ pts, North the only team worse....
 

macca_74

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Jan 5, 2019
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We were 25 up and our next 4 shots at goal were points. We just couldn’t kick a settler.

We were so close to breaking them.

Dogs mids def ran through and over us after that. We didn’t man up.

One thing our mids do under pressure is lose their shape. They all collapse in on the ball and inevitably it spilled to an outside Dog.

We just don’t have the real Cripps or Williams right now and it’s hurting us badly.
This! At the game it was very noticeable that the dogs midfield just had to get it to the outside of congestion any way possible (didn’t even really have to be any real purpose) and they would be away.
 

blue healer

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Apr 25, 2010
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The only players in VFL yesterday who looked AFL ready and had genuine superiority in play against their rivals were: Newman | Honey | TDK and Durdin - Ramsay did a few nice things and looks a future player but is way off the required sustainable efforts required - Carroll looked good in moments as well but coming back from a long spell off.

the standout blokes i would be investing AFL time into - right now are TDK and Honey - TDK because he plays like a great tap ruck and a very good mid around the ground and Honey because he has exceptional speed is a great set shot kick and has mongrel - Durdin will be playing a small forward role at some stage this year too I think.

As for Dow Lob and Setterfield - they weren't interested much yesterday is the best I can say....
I didn't see any of the VFL but if your last sentence is even close to true we are going to struggle. If we don't have players pushing hard for a spot the midfield depth we thought we had is a pipe dream.
 

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