Autopsy Rd 9 - If only games went for 1 quarter aka Still the Hawks bunnies

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Macca43

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I think I am finally able to bring myself to talk about footy again.

I missed the first quarter of the game and my recollections of the rest of the game are blurred by the fog of frustration and anger that descended on me as we got simply smashed in the second quarter and never left from then on but here are my thoughts for what they are worth.

1) We made a massive mistake going with Moore over TDK - with Natanui awaiting on Sunday we need to make that change.
2) Our effort actually hurt us - I was pretty impressed by our tackling pressure but we couldn't stop of the hawks getting the ball away and eventually they found the loose man. Also too often we had multiple players charging at the contest and spoiling each other creating the loose man for the hawks - need to be smarter not harder.
3) Bad options - Jones and someone else coming out of defence from a free kick/mark laced out the opposition with no Carlton player anywhere near them, Cripps (?) burned Eddie Betts in the pocket, Cripps tried to take on the man on the mark, McKay gave off the hand ball after marking on 50 (I could go on) - need to be smarter.
4) Hawthorn had a good day, last week the hawks couldn't hit a target under no pressure, this week they couldn't miss a chest from a scrambled kick - the 4 umpiring decisions at the start of the last (deliberate against Pittonet, the missed throw, not paying advantage to Murph and the high tackle against Willo) capped off a good day.
5) Cripps wanted to do it all -when Cripps is at his best he is dishing off handballs setting people into space, this week all he wanted to do was take on the tackler use his speed and kick long - not his go.
6) Newnes continues to frustrate - I missed his 2 goals but that fumble in the middle of the ground had me once again yelling "f..king Newnes" - we have some young blokes who deserve a shot, he wouldn't be the worst one to make way.
 

Own The Future

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My seats were on the wing half forward for this game so got a good perspective of the whole ground...what was really obvious or what it appeared to be was our lack of fitness in that second quarter...maybe they had spent all their tickets in the first..time and again it seemed Hawthorn just ran off our guys to easy and we couldn't chase.....??
Excellent point.
It was mentioned on the telecast that in the first quarter our pressure stats were off the chart, basically above elite. The commentator (I believe it was Nick Riewoldt) wondered if it was sustainable. The evidence clearly shows it is not. I’d rather 80-90% pressure over the whole game, than 110% for one and virtually nothing for the rest.
 

Michael Jezz

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If anybody saw the look on Cripps face after the game, it was that of a guy who was well and truly over his team mates, and their lack of heart. The club needs to get another quality A grade midfielder in the team to help out Cripps. Until that happens we are staying fixed in the bottom 4-6. If we lose Cripps to a long term injury then you will see how exposed we become in the midfield. McGovern has been a complete flop and unless something drastically changes, he will be lucky to see out his over inflated contract. If and when Princess 'Megan' Curnow ever graces the field again, I can't see how you can have McGovern in that team.

Kennedy is not upto AFL. Been saying it for the past two years, but they keep playing him. SPS is going backwards in his development and perhaps time to look to a WA club for a trade. Walsh will be a champion just needs time. Setterfield goes missing when it gets hard Cunningham needs to work on his defensive game. Murphy, really needs to give it away. His disposal is getting worse as each year passes. We also need another quality ruckman as Pittonet is a 5 year project at best. Pointless blaming the forwards when the ball does not come into their area after quarter time. If the players are struggling with 15 min quarters imagine when the game goes back to normal next season.
I prefer to keep Cripps but we might be the type of club, that needs to lose cripps to face the reality of building an even midfield. Carlton aren't exactly a smart, dynamic organisation
 

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The Dog

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As much as we needed Andrew Russell to sort the lads out physically, we need an equivalent in the sports psychology realm. Our lads make some god awful baffling decisions at key points of games. There is not one shred of an effective winning mentality in this side. Skill errors are one thing and part of the game, but the right mentality, professionalism, and composure are crucial if we are ever going to be more than a side that shows flashes of brilliance now and then.
Totally agree. Our team is mentally fragile and has been for 20 years.

We need to address this ASAP before it besets another generation of players. At my work corporate conference the past two years we've had Richmond's sports psychologist and mindfulness coach Emma Murray present. It's amazing how simple her concepts are but the impact is clear.

Surely the club is onto this area given our CEO is from from Richmond, but the way we capitulate it's hard to tell.
 

Manhattanite

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Disagree - while I think Teague has room for improvement in his coaching as he’s still new to it, he has also had the team play some pretty exciting and awesome footy. We have gone from 18th to scoring to 5th in less than a year. We have gone from 5 wins in 35 games or whatever it was to 5 in 10 or 11. Etc etc.

There’s been significant improvement but it can’t be linear. The team lacked composure on Friday - I don’t think it was skills related but above the shoulder stuff which can be rectified.

Ross was a great coach but we don’t need him. Teague has shown enough so far and he will only get better.


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Arr0w

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Newnes panic and coughs up a t least a goal a week to counter his goal.
This week 1 was taking advantage from a free kick directly in front and a handball at the top of the square when Setters was free and could easily have kicked the goal. Not as if he created the opportunities.
Eddie would be goalless under those circumstances
 

Macca43

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Easy Macca, it was somewhat tongue in cheek, but you would have to agree his input this year, especially last 3 weeks is befitting his age

No surprise to most of us
2nd at the blues for goals scored on Average (behind Levi), second at Carlton for Goal Assists on average (behind McGovern) 4th at the blues for Score Involvements (behind Cripps, Martin and Levi) on average - he is far from playing at his best but that is far from a bad year and definitely not the stats of a player who isn't creating their own goals.

He is doing about what I expected.
 

Arr0w

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2nd at the blues for goals scored on Average (behind Levi), second at Carlton for Goal Assists on average (behind McGovern) 4th at the blues for Score Involvements (behind Cripps, Martin and Levi) on average - he is far from playing at his best but that is far from a bad year and definitely not the stats of a player who isn't creating their own goals.

He is doing about what I expected.
More selective stats. Should we include the percentage of turnovers v disposals?

All while being a permanent/predominante forward/inside 50 player while most of the others you mentioned have played other roles

If he is not careful, soon he will get passed by defensive wingmen for goals scored

Sugarcoat it anyway you like, but he has been extremely underwhelming, but that's no surprise to most
 

SurreyBlue

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Disagree - while I think Teague has room for improvement in his coaching as he’s still new to it, he has also had the team play some pretty exciting and awesome footy. We have gone from 18th to scoring to 5th in less than a year. We have gone from 5 wins in 35 games or whatever it was to 5 in 10 or 11. Etc etc.

There’s been significant improvement but it can’t be linear. The team lacked composure on Friday - I don’t think it was skills related but above the shoulder stuff which can be rectified.

Ross was a great coach but we don’t need him. Teague has shown enough so far and he will only get better.


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Well said.
If you review the game, you'll see it was all about composure and assurance and not application or talent/skill. One of our biggest culprits was Martin! :oops:
Everything just seemed to fall for Hawthorn and it was as if everything we tried was in vain. The smallest of knock on's on the quick kick just fell for them.
They had the lucky star on their side last week, no doubt.

ps. Gibbons and Betts had games they would forget. Setterfield and Cuningham did little, and add Martin and you can see why we struggled.
 

T2B_

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More selective stats. Should we include the percentage of turnovers v disposals?

All while being a permanent/predominante forward/inside 50 player while most of the others you mentioned have played other roles

If he is not careful, soon he will get passed by defensive wingmen for goals scored

Sugarcoat it anyway you like, but he has been extremely underwhelming, but that's no surprise to most
I don't see why that should be too controversial an opinion. I think most even expected he would have some good games, good cameos even, and then some quieter ones or even be rested.

I love Eddie, think he's one of the most freakish little forwards the game has seen, and somehow an even better human being, but father time comes for everyone eventually. I will enjoy whatever he has left to give.
 

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Arr0w

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I don't see why that should be too controversial an opinion. I think most even expected he would have some good games, good cameos even, and then some quieter ones or even be rested.

I love Eddie, think he's one of the most freakish little forwards the game has seen, and somehow an even better human being, but father time comes for everyone eventually. I will enjoy whatever he has left to give.
Me too, love Eddie. Was angry/gutted with his departure, especially where it would have been easy to retain him. MM, looking at you.

Forget the name, or what a player has done in the past, but just focus on output

This week, would you retain a 33 year old small forward that has kicked 1 goal in 3 games?
 

COBALT BLUE

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A lot of names being thrown up as not being good enough, a lot of Murph bashing, he sure does have some deficiencies but how many people can remove their bias when discussing who to drop? A lot laying the boot in to Newnes, 6 touches, yuk, not many kicking Cunners out, not a single possession after half time, not many people demanding more from Willo, who’s been quiet, SPS, 8 possessions, Eddie Betts has struggled most games, but we love him, so we say nice things.

Murph struggles to tackle and spoil, but weigh it up, whos worse Murph getting 15-25 touches a game or Cunners, Newnes, Willo, Betts, Plowman, SPS, Jones?
We cannot drop our 22
We do not need to to a Bolton and blood draftees or flood 22 with kids......we KNOW what will happen
Hawks had a lot of famous. Ins.....and were hungry

It's not surprising

Am not keen on Moore....
We need Back this
Gov
Marchbank(is he match fit)
Silvagni
Fish
 

T2B_

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Me too, love Eddie. Was angry/gutted with his departure, especially where it would have been easy to retain him. MM, looking at you.

Forget the name, or what a player has done in the past, but just focus on output

This week, would you retain a 33 year old small forward that has kicked 1 goal in 3 games?
No, if he's due a spell might as well give him one. The only caveat to that would be if the break makes a difference and said player trains the house down, knowing what they are capable of, then maybe not.

Though in this case the bye isn't much of a break at all.
 

Brackets

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Sorry I don’t agree with your line of thinking. I have never heard of negative excuses being made for a player that kicks goals. I will take every goal we can get. If newnes has the nouse/goal sense to put himself in an advantageous position to score then that is a good thing in my books. We only kicked 7 goals last week.
Hawks scored 14 goals after Newnes kicked his second. You don't think his 2 possessions (1 effective) in this time had any part in this this?

He fumbled a ball that led to a direct goal. Every other mid had at least double his pressure acts. Both his goals were on the end of Setterfield's work. Kicking a soccer goal when we've got a shot on goal, and being 1 of 5 options (see below) Setterfield could have given it doesn't make up for the rest of it.

Screenshot_20200803_180901.jpg


He had a terrible game. I don't have him in my outs but he was one of the worst on ground.
 

SurreyBlue

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If anybody saw the look on Cripps face after the game, it was that of a guy who was well and truly over his team mates, and their lack of heart. The club needs to get another quality A grade midfielder in the team to help out Cripps. Until that happens we are staying fixed in the bottom 4-6. If we lose Cripps to a long term injury then you will see how exposed we become in the midfield. McGovern has been a complete flop and unless something drastically changes, he will be lucky to see out his over inflated contract. If and when Princess 'Megan' Curnow ever graces the field again, I can't see how you can have McGovern in that team.

Kennedy is not upto AFL. Been saying it for the past two years, but they keep playing him. SPS is going backwards in his development and perhaps time to look to a WA club for a trade. Walsh will be a champion just needs time. Setterfield goes missing when it gets hard Cunningham needs to work on his defensive game. Murphy, really needs to give it away. His disposal is getting worse as each year passes. We also need another quality ruckman as Pittonet is a 5 year project at best. Pointless blaming the forwards when the ball does not come into their area after quarter time. If the players are struggling with 15 min quarters imagine when the game goes back to normal next season.
Horrible post. I suggest you watch the game again.
Just a few points:
Cripps was probably more disappointed in his own game and the team losing then his teammates.
McGovern wasn’t playing on Friday, although he does frustrate, surely you cannot include in this weeks summary.
Kennedy busted a gut all day and was one of our better midfielders applying pressure on the opposition.
Setterfield was moved from the midfield to the forward line.
Cuningham spent all day in the forward line with a strap bigger then our facial masks.
 

BigBreakfast

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Excellent point.
It was mentioned on the telecast that in the first quarter our pressure stats were off the chart, basically above elite. The commentator (I believe it was Nick Riewoldt) wondered if it was sustainable. The evidence clearly shows it is not. I’d rather 80-90% pressure over the whole game, than 110% for one and virtually nothing for the rest.
I think fatigue bit us badly v Hawthorn. Going to happen, or has happened to every team this season. Conflation of factors: fatigue, Hawthorn best game in who know how long, lack of rotations, hero ball, youth, resulted in a dismal display. Serious case of “can’t take that back but, next time up let’s...”
 

Accidental genius

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Hawks scored 14 goals after Newnes kicked his second. You don't think his 2 possessions (1 effective) in this time had any part in this this?

He fumbled a ball that led to a direct goal. Every other mid had at least double his pressure acts. Both his goals were on the end of Setterfield's work. Kicking a soccer goal when we've got a shot on goal, and being 1 of 5 options (see below) Setterfield could have given it doesn't make up for the rest of it.

View attachment 926596

He had a terrible game. I don't have him in my outs but he was one of the worst on ground.
yeap whole team performed poorly. i wouldnt drop newens.
 

Manhattanite

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Hawks scored 14 goals after Newnes kicked his second. You don't think his 2 possessions (1 effective) in this time had any part in this this?

He fumbled a ball that led to a direct goal. Every other mid had at least double his pressure acts. Both his goals were on the end of Setterfield's work. Kicking a soccer goal when we've got a shot on goal, and being 1 of 5 options (see below) Setterfield could have given it doesn't make up for the rest of it.

View attachment 926596

He had a terrible game. I don't have him in my outs but he was one of the worst on ground.
That’s a pretty cool shot - it’s rare to see 5 different players running unmanned for an open goal - we really had the run in the first quarter.


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DangerousD

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TO me the reason Newnes should be dropped isn't his possessions but his fumble in the centre circles when Williamson had put on a good block for him which led directly to a Hawthorn goal. He has far too many of these moments for an experienced mature player.
Thats fair enough, 6 possessions in a game isn’t good enough and yes he does seem to be a player who panics at stages, he isn’t alone by the way, i Just have an issue with people bashing Newnes but flossing over Cunners, who I believe has been worse. Or bashing Murph but saying nothing about SPS.

For too many it’s about how you feel about a player and not what the players are producing.
 

DangerousD

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We cannot drop our 22
We do not need to to a Bolton and blood draftees or flood 22 with kids......we KNOW what will happen
Hawks had a lot of famous. Ins.....and were hungry

It's not surprising

Am not keen on Moore....
We need Back this
Gov
Marchbank(is he match fit)
Silvagni
Fish
I just want players who are not playing well to be dropped, obviously can’t drop them all but the worst 3 maybe, regardless of the names.
 

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