Review Rd 9 vs North Melbourne: Post game discussion

[PattyKwasagun]

I didn't expect us to win today. I also didn't expect to see us completely dominate a quarter at Etihad against North. So as disappointing as the first half was, the third has encouraged me greatly. I've seen a fair bit of what happened in the first and second quarter, but very little of what happened in the third. This game on it's own is irrelevant, that our team showed not only the determination but the skill and level headedness to pile on that many goals and completely dominate a superior (even if just slightly) opposition impressed me greatly.

Also, after a few weeks of being unsure on Voss, I am now confident in him taking us forward. What we really need, though, are a few assistants with great tactical skills. That is still his big weakness.

We need 2 great midfielders in the draft or via trade week now to get us to where we need to be. Our current midfield is filled with future stars, but not necessarily stars that should be in the midfield. Rocky should for sure, and probably Rich, but I can't help feeling that Redden will end up elsewhere.

 

[The Stid]

Sorry to intrude here, just wondering how Hawksley is travelling? and whether your guys see him being kept on the list for much longer? because he's been with you for a while now, im just interested since my sister is friends with him and i went to the same school as him / played hockey with him. He's a great athlete when i finished my schooling (09) he still held school athletics records for long distance running if i remember correctly and javelin. once again sorry to intrude! And good luck for the game this weekend.

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

For the record, Corn earned his permanent place in the side for mine. He's bloody lucky he got his boot to that ball on the goal line, though.

Just on that, the commentary at the time irked me a bit. Maybe it looked different at the ground, but from the slow mo I certainly couldn't say it would've definitely gone through. the old adage "if in doubt" rang through my head while they were chastising Ace. He had a split second to react, and a defender on his hammer, so he made sure of the result. I really don't think selfishness was what drove him in that moment.

 

[karix]

Just on that, the commentary at the time irked me a bit. Maybe it looked different at the ground, but from the slow mo I certainly couldn't say it would've definitely gone through. the old adage "if in doubt" rang through my head while they were chastising Ace. He had a split second to react, and a defender on his hammer, so he made sure of the result. I really don't think selfishness was what drove him in that moment.

I agree with Ace's decision here. It looked like it was going across the face, or clip the post. Ace would've been able to see that trajectory better than the camera's pick up too.

If you look at where he grabbed it and what he had to do to put it on his boot (IE jump up to stop momentum and pull it back towards himself) I think it would've missed had he let it go.

Just nice to see a bit of goal sense. Certainly got my wife excited when she saw it, so good work there Ace you're doing better than me

 

[acuguy]

Lisle was clearly recruited to play the Leigh Brown role for us. 85% forward and 15% in the ruck. I think it is time for us to give either Retzlaff or Lisle an opportunity to play this role.

The move of Merrett back allows Patful to take the 3rd tall forward and releases Drummond. Regardless of what anyone says about Josh, i think it is a flaw in our plan that we don't endeavour to put the ball in his hands at every opportunity. His kicking is absolute elite!

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

Exactly how I saw it karix

 

[Haso]

Just on that, the commentary at the time irked me a bit. Maybe it looked different at the ground, but from the slow mo I certainly couldn't say it would've definitely gone through. the old adage "if in doubt" rang through my head while they were chastising Ace. He had a split second to react, and a defender on his hammer, so he made sure of the result. I really don't think selfishness was what drove him in that moment.

I absolutely agree, and I don't think it was selfishness either, but he definitely did well to get his boot down and stay vertical without connecting with the ball past the line.

 

[dlanod]

Just on that, the commentary at the time irked me a bit. Maybe it looked different at the ground, but from the slow mo I certainly couldn't say it would've definitely gone through. the old adage "if in doubt" rang through my head while they were chastising Ace. He had a split second to react, and a defender on his hammer, so he made sure of the result. I really don't think selfishness was what drove him in that moment.

I agree - I thought it was quite likely to hit the post and having been in similar positions in various sports, you're always better to make sure of it than letting it go and letting it miss the goal.

 

[lions2010]

I agree that it was a poor selection call, based on what information we are privy to, but it would be good if we could keep this thread for sensible discussion, and leave the 'coach has got no idea' comments for the venting thread.

I like the move. Brisbane need to develop towards the future not try and fill gaps. I have been a critic of vossy but it is very clear his motivation this year is to build depth in the list, which so far I believe has been a ramping success. I say keep it up.

 

[Nick Lions]

Anyone else in favour of seeing Blacky rested next week, despite his injury being "not serious" according to Vossy. Rather give him two weeks and make sure he's right to go for the second half than risk losing him for the second half. As we saw yesterday, the younger guys stood up when he was subbed as they couldn't just leave the hard work to Simon. We're gonna get knocked off next week, so what's the harm in giving a young bloke a go and making sure the champ is fit and firing.

 

[lions2010]

Anyone else in favour of seeing Blacky rested next week, despite his injury being "not serious" according to Vossy. Rather give him two weeks and make sure he's right to go for the second half than risk losing him for the second half. As we saw yesterday, the younger guys stood up when he was subbed as they couldn't just leave the hard work to Simon. We're gonna get knocked off next week, so what's the harm in giving a young bloke a go and making sure the champ is fit and firing.

Yes I support it. Need to manage black to end of year before he hangs the boots up.

 

[Haso]

Anyone else in favour of seeing Blacky rested next week, despite his injury being "not serious" according to Vossy. Rather give him two weeks and make sure he's right to go for the second half than risk losing him for the second half. As we saw yesterday, the younger guys stood up when he was subbed as they couldn't just leave the hard work to Simon. We're gonna get knocked off next week, so what's the harm in giving a young bloke a go and making sure the champ is fit and firing.

I seem to remember a story at the start of the season with an interview with Blacie, where he was saying that it was likely he would miss some games here and there to stay fresh at his age. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a factor next week.

 

[Tassie4ever]

We got flogged in the ruck and that's where the game was decided.

Longer has gone very well leading up to this game and realistically is entitled to an off day at his stage of development.

But for the selectors to leave him one out is a bad one. A very bad mistake.

 

[jackess]

We got flogged in the ruck and that's where the game was decided.

Longer has gone very well leading up to this game and realistically is entitled to an off day at his stage of development.

But for the selectors to leave him one out is a bad one. A very bad mistake.

Sandilands dominates the ruck but Freo often loses the clearances. I don't think you can blame the rucking for Brisbane's poor performance in the first half. It was the same ruck setup in the second half when the Lions dominated.

Although I agree Hudson probably should've played.

 

[Sanchez365]

Did anyone notice Golby trying to pull off some Drummond like kicks? Quite a few times I saw him try to pull the kick at the last moment with that strange stab like pass that Drummond has. Hope he can make it a little more reliable, could be a great weapon.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

I agree that it was a poor selection call, based on what information we are privy to, but it would be good if we could keep this thread for sensible discussion, and leave the 'coach has got no idea' comments for the venting thread.

Fair enough, you're the Boss, but I think you do me a dis-service. You took the time to quote me so presumably you read my post in its entirety. Having watched the game live (four rows from the front), I indicated that my pre-game prediction about being monstered in the ruck was borne out and made what I thought were direct but accurate observations about our performance in the first half (and got some "sensible discussion" response posts). I finished with a conclusion that the coach's observations at the presser indicated he just didn't get it. Not sure why that constitutes a vent.
And yes, everything said on this site is subject to "what information we are privy to", but it doesn't mean we can't express a view and that we may not be right. If Hudson was injured/sore/being rested then I take it all back. If not, they erred, that's all.

 

[Quigley]

A few comments from me:

- the big problem for me is not the coach its the players. Quite simply they do not run hard enough. They walk around, don't spread when we have the ball and just jog to toward the ball when the opposition have it. The speed at which we operate when the ball is turned over (both ways) is massively noticable when compared with the top teams. When we get the ball our players seem to stand around and expect it to end up with the opposition again rather than sprinting forward and to space. This causes the player with the ball to have to make a difficult kick/HB and makes our skills look even worse. There is a definate lack of committment to work in our team.

- Voss loves to have guys who can play multiple positions but then only uses them in one position. We were getting belted in the clearance, Green and Zorko are good in the clearances. We should have used them there. He values flexibility in his players but uses very little of it at game time.

- Rocky was nowhere for a lot of the game yesterday and has been very inconsistent this year. I understand he is getting tagged but when he is getting tagged he can still get in there and tackle. His tackling has fallen right away over the last 4 or so games. He needs a kick up the bum and to be told that if the ball is not coming to him he needs to be tackling his butt off to make up for it.

- Yeo and Bewick were in the side to provide run. Yeo provided some and was solid in his first game. His skills are the thing which have always concerned me and that was evident again. He needs to work on his kicking over the next year. I would give him another game next week but after the bye I would look at a couple of others. Bewick I think has been tried a few times over the last year and a half and is starting to get into the "not at this level" basket.

- Cornelius chased the hardest of our tall forwards and really put in the effort on a few occasions. He again took some nice clean marks and is starting to get the confidence that he can play at this level. Now he needs a few more games in a row.

- Zorko finished the game very strongly when he was green lighted to get into it. Tackled very well and just mixed it up. He needs to be thrown in there more often.

- Hanley was the BOG for us I think. Calm and controlled the back. Worked well with Drummond and got up the ground more in the second half when we needed his run. Loved his work.

- Golby looks like he has also been greenlighted to get up the field more and become involved in the go forward. He is a fixture at the back and is as solid as any of the vets around him. For such an inexperienced player this is a great sign.

- The blow torch must surely be on Polkinghorne. There would be more than a few in the reserves who have done more and would kill for the run Polkinghorne has had in the team. Beams and Harwood have to be in line for a recall.

The ins and outs for WC for me:

Out - Polkinghorne, Bewick, Black (inj), Lester
In - Beams, Harwood, Polec, Hudson

I am also seeing Wrigley as a certainty as soon as he can be promoted off the rookie list.

 

[jackess]

Bit harsh on Rocky I think. Sure 2 tackles isn't good enough but he had 13 contested possessions, the next best for the Lions being 9 and 7 clearances the next best being 3. In a game where the Lions were smashed in contested footy and clearances I think Rocky played really well.

 

[Quigley]

Not a bad game compared to the rest of the team but by his own personal standards I though it was definately below par. We rely on Rocky a lot for spread. He wasn't doing that yesterday.

When he is at the top of his game he is also tackling very well. The drop in tackles indicates a drop in work rate from him I think.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

My impression from watching it closely yesterday is that Redden's possessions are more obvious than Rocky's. Redden, although not particularly fast, can break away and run through the lines whereas Rocky does a lot of nice things in close and then turns up out wide or up forward when no-one seems to notice. I like that combo. Having said that, Rocky was pretty inconspicuous in the first half.
I also think Raines has been under-rated and does a fantastic job negating the opposition's best midfielders. Trouble is he isn't very damaging offensively and it means we are really one and possibly two offensive midfielders short each game.
The good news is that Polec, Zorko, Green, Bartlett, Beams and Harwood are going to supplement our midfield over the next year or two and that will make a pretty impressive and offensive midfield group for mine.
And for those who weren't there and if it wasn't picked up on the telly, Zorko had what looked like a lower leg injury late in the game for which he came off and needed treatment. He came back on but was favouring his leg so not sure the extent of the problem.

 

[whatboutbob]

Raines pulled out one seriously impressive attacking handball yesterday to someone (Ash?) streaming into the F50. My surprise highlighted how poorly the team handballs generally.

I agree with Quigs' assessment of Rocky's game. He was nowhere to be seen when the heat was on, which is unlike him. Was good to see him work his way back into it, but his patchy form has been a bit worrying.

And again, spot on with the 'effort' comment Quigs. That's what I found most disturbing yesterday. For most of the first half they simply didn't seem to be trying as hard as the opposition. Sure, it might be a confidence thing, and yes it must be tough when the decisions are going against you, but it was my first inkling that the coach may have 'lost' the players. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Jorgo]

Yup pretty much agree with Quigs on everything he said there also. Nicely analysed IMO.

 

[chopperduck]

Agree that Rocky has been down a bit, but then again so has Redden this year. The team as a group have not been on the same page really. Rocky is just so important to us because of his gut running. He gets a lot of 'cheap' or 'rubbish' touches, but if you go back and look at these, it's because he is the only one running himself stupid at all ends of the ground trying to get free. He ends up with it because he is about the only one doing it.

It is a team sport, and the midfield, as a group, needs to work well as a unit. Gone are the days where 1 midfielder can rip a game open when the rest are passengers. Whether it's fitness, confidence, desire i don't know, but our mids just aren't in the game, at least not for the entire contest. Maybe we are a bit thrown out with Bergs being out? we were starting to get some good chemistry with Bergs before he went down.

Longer has done well for a first year ruck, he battles away, and is only going to learn by playing at the top level. I don't think it is a mistake to be playing him without Hudson at this stage, i think we will see a rotation of them come very soon, perhaps even this week giving Longer a 2 week break. Having Hudson in the team with Longer destroys the structure we have put together lately, and i think we want the team to stick with that as it's the kind of structure we are going to have long term. I think the coaches are looking big picture with this, instead of short term.

Overall the effort has been done, and i agree with Quigs and Bob. So easily we threw the switch in the 3rd quarter. Effort works both ways, and too often our mids are just not working hard enough to give an option when we have the ball. I don't think we should be looking at hitting up any forwards any further than 70m from goal, we need to learn to run, switch and find open players to get that extra kick to about the middle so we can kick the ball deeper or hit up a leading forward. We are too happy to kick to a contest looking for a ruck or a tall forward to kick it too, but this doesn't help. Watch the game back again and see how many of our goals came from picking the right option from HB, hitting up a target in the middle and carrying the ball a bit further. The fact that North that that extra man back just enforces this. Teams no longer use an extra defender to stand Brown, they just sit a kick off the contest and mop up all the lose ball we give them. Make the lose player accountable, and start hitting up our extra man, where ever they hell he is.

 

[chopperduck]

One thing i will touch on whilst i think of it, i'm not liking Hanley on our goal line. He is let go several very easy goals this year from over running the ball or just simply not doing the right thing 10m out from goal. Someone needs to get in his ear and tell him to start playing the percentages more often.

I dont' mind the changes Quigs has suggested either. For me, give Longer a break and bring in Hudson. Leave Ace as our 3rd forward, but Polec for Bewick, Beams for Polka and Harwood for Black sounds pretty good for me.

 

[Snuka]

One thing i will touch on whilst i think of it, i'm not liking Hanley on our goal line. He is let go several very easy goals this year from over running the ball or just simply not doing the right thing 10m out from goal. Someone needs to get in his ear and tell him to start playing the percentages more often.

I dont' mind the changes Quigs has suggested either. For me, give Longer a break and bring in Hudson. Leave Ace as our 3rd forward, but Polec for Bewick, Beams for Polka and Harwood for Black sounds pretty good for me.

Good call chopper But to be fair to Hanley, I think a part of the reason for that is that we're not getting guys presenting up the ground, our last quarter in particular showed the defenders hesitating and perhaps 'over running' the ball (well put btw) because no guys were providing an option further up. The loss of Staker was such a big blow for me because he often provided that tall target.