Autopsy Rd23 Buddy 10.2.62 defeats Carlton 8.9.57

[NOCLUE]

So, with a different captain today and Armfield not playing we would have won?

If Buddy was captain and we had dusty instead, Maybe

 

[T2B_]

I do think Jones lacks in some natural smarts vs the likes of Weiters and Marchbank, but I do also think he'll be a main stay of our key defense for some time to come. Apologies to the haters that want to see him fail, but I'm pretty convinced he'll be a defensive weapon. Not many players have his physical attributes and abilities.

Key thing is to have the defensive support and great footy brains around him. No doubt he missed the likes of Plow.

 

[HARKER]

Plowman is the battering ram of our backline.

Weitering & Marchbank are somewhat more interceptors, but it's Plowman that does some of the heavier body work that can go unnoticed.

 

[T2B_]

Plowman has the most appropriate name in the AFL when you consider that.

 

[mike ockerts]

Jones isn't a monster - he's the same guy he always was. He has a few tantalising skills, particularly his athleticism and ability to get to contests and attack them in the air, but his reading of the play and positioning is atrocious.

As a defender, this is far less noticeable - his opponents take him to the ball, he outleaps them, job done. He's been really effective for us in that role. But the more tape teams get on him, the more he has been figured out. In recent weeks teams have moved him around a lot more and Buddy is the best at exposing poor positioning.

Not having Plowman didn't help, and ASOS or Marchbank would have been better matchups. Plus, defensive running by the mids was non existant.

But in some ways it was good. Jones-mania was fun while it lasted but we all got to see his weaknesses fully on display there and can have a really good think about who plays that role in future....

Disagree, he got exposed by a piss poor midfield effort from our so called leaders, when the ball comes in like that, its like trying to hold the tide back, but i see your not sold on Liam yet, thats cool, i guess he'll just have to keep pantsing gun forwards till you notice him, if getting beaten once in 12 games? by a gun forward when you've just tried to learn a craft you've never done before is no good, I'll take those stats thanks, as the scope for improvement is enormous.

 

[HBF]

Paul Roos showed his true colours tonight. As one-eyed as you can possibly be. Where are the Carlton identities when we play home games? I want someone on the Seven team telling us how our opponents are embarrassing themselves and playing at VFL level. I know we're a shithouse club right now, but fair dinkum -- should we really be subjected to lowlifes like Roosy telling us how our players are embarrassing? The Seven coverage has really revelled in our pain for the last few years. I'm sick of it.

Paul Roos was terrible, but this was a Foxtel game.

 

[Weiterbot23]

I totally disagree about Roos being bias.

Generally I felt Dunstall hates us but last night thought he was complementary of us.

We lost by 80 points can't expect them to be going wild

 

[HBF]

Any news on Byrne yet?

 

[passmark]

Disagree, he got exposed by a piss poor midfield effort from our so called leaders, when the ball comes in like that, its like trying to hold the tide back, but i see your not sold on Liam yet, thats cool, i guess he'll just have to keep pantsing gun forwards till you notice him, if getting beaten once in 12 games? by a gun forward when you've just tried to learn a craft you've never done before is no good, I'll take those stats thanks, as the scope for improvement is enormous.

great post.

Last week Jones played on a great of the game but had the assistance of committed team mates playing well. Jones wins easily.

This week the whole teams is shambles but it's Liam's "weaknesses" or "limitations" that are to blame.

Lurkers gotta lurk I suppose.

 

[T2B_]

There were Hawthorn fans in their post-game thread last week even saying they felt Jones was a very large reason they lost the game. Overall, he's been great, but let's judge him on one or two games...

 

[mike ockerts]

great post.

Last week Jones played on a great of the game but had the assistance of committed team mates playing well. Jones wins easily.

This week the whole teams is shambles but it's Liam's "weaknesses" or "limitations" that are to blame.

Lurkers gotta lurk I suppose.

Its just frustrating, if people can't see what Jones has achieved this year, then well.....

And absolutely agree about having others around to help, in a good cohesive back 6, everyone helps out when its your turn to go.

 

[Weiterbot23]

Its just frustrating, if people can't see what Jones has achieved this year, then well.....

And absolutely agree about having others around to help, in a good cohesive back 6, everyone helps out when its your turn to go.

Who is disagreeing with that?

No Plowman, Marchbank or ASOS/Rowe either so he was totally exposed against the best full forward of the generation with zero midfield pressure.

 

[sosos]

So I guess it was all my fault. Watched the first quarter on my phone until the battery went dead and they were 4 goals to nil up.

Walked into the pub with a minute to go in the 2nd quarter and they were only one goal up.

Was a procession after that. #bad timing

 

[T2B_]

Sakc sosos!

 

[Funk]

Never read anything into the last round when you can't make finals. Means little

Overall year was very good and so many things to look forward to. Changes still to be made but happy with year and club.

Bring on Trade/Draft period and an even better 2018

Boltons says post match:

"We're open to trading" and "Also we'll go to the draft - that's been our policy for a long time. That's all going to happen over the pre-season".

SOS is about to start earning his money - our "real season" is about to begin.

Clearly there's been a lot of discussions going on with players/managers behind the closed doors over the last 9 months. Will be fascinating to see what happens.!!!!

 

[Soapy V]

Boltons says post match:

"We're open to trading" and "Also we'll go to the draft - that's been our policy for a long time. That's all going to happen over the pre-season".

SOS is about to start earning his money - our "real season" is about to begin.

Clearly there's been a lot of discussions going on with players/managers behind the closed doors over the last 9 months. Will be fascinating to see what happens.!!!!

 

[Moody Blue]

Cripps is the core of our midfield.

Cripps was playing with cracked ribs early in the season, and it was pretty obvious he was having issues with his knee and kept playing. He is getting smashed week in and week out as opposition teams target him. We desperately need another two quality midfielders.

 

[Metalcrusher]

The title of this thread makes me sad

 

[Funk]

Hayward is currently a stick.

He'll turn up round 1 next year built like Kennedy.

Certainly the Swans like a "strong body".

Also note that quite a few of the Swans "kids" are actually off the rookie list and a little older than many think.

Newman 24 y/o
Papley 21 y/o
Robinson 23 y/o
even Rampe is 27 years old - only played his first game when he was 22.

 

[bleednavyblue]

It will be interesting to see what SOS and co have in mind/planned for the silly season. As alot of us supporters have said after last nights dismantling we need quality mids mids and more mids! We need ball magnet beasts who can attack with precision but also defend like ravenous wolves! Wasnt LJ's fault that the ball was coming lace out to Buddy, it was out mids lack of pressure to attck the opposition with venom that made him look second rate. Jones has been a marvel this year, career on the line and he turned it around, only had Franklin and Kennedy beat him, 2 star quality forwards but its there mids delivering that ball with pin point accuracy that hurts, it hurts to see out mids just stand there and spectate! Please SOS and co we need mids who want to play for us, who want to take us back up the ladder and be even more competitive, we have the raw materials, we now need the polish.

 

[Arr0w]

Certainly the Swans like a "strong body".

Also note that quite a few of the Swans "kids" are actually off the rookie list and a little older than many think.

Newman 24 y/o
Papley 21 y/o
Robinson 23 y/o
even Rampe is 27 years old - only played his first game when he was 22.

To think Rampe was cut from the Dogs list.

Swans would have to be ranked number 1 for recruiting over the last 10 years. As much as the first 3 rounds of a draft are important, where you get a definite advantage over other sides is with later picks and shrewd trading/list management

I must say, SOS has done very well in the last 2 years

 

[btdg]

I agree about being led to the ball and then exploding at it. Disagree about him not being a monster in his attack on the ball and the man. Has a huge amount of physicality in a tackle, but wasn't able to put body on Buddy.

Seems like Weitering, Marchbank and Jones are all more comfortable as the third man up. Hopefully ASOS can teach them some one on one skills.

But Buddy is kicking 6-7 on anyone last night.

I might have been a bit unclear above, but I always thought Jones attack on the ball and man were great. He just couldnt get into the game as a forward, whereas a defender it comes to him more, and when he attacks and misses, there's generally more assistance (Plowman in particular is our best at providing cover, and look what happened when he was missing!)

Weitering and Marchbank will be fine as individual defenders in a few years. Just need strength and experience. Weitering smashed Reid last night, who has been in great form, and I would have liked him to have a run on Buddy

 

[btdg]

Disagree, he got exposed by a piss poor midfield effort from our so called leaders, when the ball comes in like that, its like trying to hold the tide back, but i see your not sold on Liam yet, thats cool, i guess he'll just have to keep pantsing gun forwards till you notice him, if getting beaten once in 12 games? by a gun forward when you've just tried to learn a craft you've never done before is no good, I'll take those stats thanks, as the scope for improvement is enormous.

Geez, does everything have to be black and white? This is the Carlton forum, not Collingwood. I think Jones is fine, but he is what he is - athletic, hard at the contest, but a poor reader of the game. When he has support as a defender he can play a role.

When Jones played as a forward, everyone hated him. Now, as a defender, he can't do a thing wrong. My observation is that he's the same player he always was, just in a better role for him, and until last night, with a bit more confidence

Note though, there's very little evidence that our backline got better after Jones came into the team. He's done some incredible things - arguably saved us the game vs Hawthorn With individual efforts, but he's still a very limited player in some ways.

 

[davis_756]

We forced them to play 4 quarters by sticking with them for 2.5 quarters, sydney still had to come home strong in the last in case we rebounded from the 3rd to make a game of it.

End of a long season for our boys and I can't blame them for throwing in the towel once sydney broke free of us in the 3rd, have to remember we weren't playing for much.

Looking forward to see what changes the team can make for next season with draft/trades, hopefully put together a 3rd strong off season in a row for the club.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Geez, does everything have to be black and white? This is the Carlton forum, not Collingwood. I think Jones is fine, but he is what he is - athletic, hard at the contest, but a poor reader of the game. When he has support as a defender he can play a role.

When Jones played as a forward, everyone hated him. Now, as a defender, he can't do a thing wrong. My observation is that he's the same player he always was, just in a better role for him, and until last night, with a bit more confidence

Note though, there's very little evidence that our backline got better after Jones came into the team. He's done some incredible things - arguably saved us the game vs Hawthorn With individual efforts, but he's still a very limited player in some ways.

All fair points. Our back line is our strongest part of the ground, so my question would be 'did our back line get worse when Jones came in?'
If no, he's younger and more athletic than Rowe and probably a younger version of ASOS but maybe not as level headed. Bigger question is probably can he coexist with Weiters, Marchy and Plow?