Banter RDT 171 - Brought forward to 2.00pm midnight

[Dazzler9]

It's been a big week in sport:

• Socceroos qualified for the WC via a playoff that I didn't even realise was on. Seriously, where was the coverage of this, compared with 2005?
• GSW take out the NBA
• West Coast Fever make the GF and justify their HGA (would've been LOLs if they got an unfair home GF though)
• Swimming is setting up a new category for transgender athletes, effectively ousting them from women's swimming. I'm sure the discussion around this will be quite civilised and rational.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

It's been a big week in sport:

[*]Swimming is setting up a new category for transgender athletes, effectively ousting them from women's swimming. I'm sure the discussion around this will be quite civilised and rational.

I thought Cate Campbell’s comments really summarized the issues well. It’s so difficult to balance the need to allow transgender women to participate, against the need to ensure a fair competition.

Not sure they’ve landed in the right spot but I’m glad I’m not the one having to make the decision.

 

[Dazzler9]

I thought Cate Campbell’s comments really summarized the issues well. It’s so difficult to balance the need to allow transgender women to participate, against the need to ensure a fair competition.

Not sure they’ve landed in the right spot but I’m glad I’m not the one having to make the decision.

It's certainly a thorny issue, but something needed to be done.

On a similar subject, for all the flak he's copped on the issue, this set shows how unwarranted it all is. IMO

 

[Ochre]

Will finally stop all those trans women who have been dominating women's sports for the last few years, such as....

 

[Dazzler9]

Will finally stop all those trans women who have been dominating women's sports for the last few years, such as....

I think that attitude misses the point.

 

[Truckosaurus]

I thought Cate Campbell’s comments really summarized the issues well. It’s so difficult to balance the need to allow transgender women to participate, against the need to ensure a fair competition.

Not sure they’ve landed in the right spot but I’m glad I’m not the one having to make the decision.

It's difficult to make any argument against their participation, no matter how well thought out, carefully considered and reasonable it may be when you know it's going to be co-opted by bigots looking to justify their discrimination. I thought her statement was good, but I don't envy her for having had to make it.

 

[Ochre]

I think that attitude misses the point.

Why have we not seen it happen if it's such an issue? This isn't about fairness, it never has been.

Meanwhile the most marginalised group in society has now been excluded from one of the best ways of bringing communities together.

 

[Dazzler9]

Why have we not seen it happen if it's such an issue? This isn't about fairness, it never has been.

Meanwhile the most marginalised group in society has now been excluded from one of the best ways of bringing communities together.

A trans athlete doesn't have to dominate their sport in order for their inclusion to be unfair. Simply making an Olympic team, for example, denies a natural born woman their spot on the team.

I've got no issue with trans people. But there's a reason that sport is divided into men's and women's categories. It's due to the fundamental physical differences between the sexes. In going through male puberty, trans athletes are going to have an added advantage not available to natural born female athletes. I don't think that's fair.

In terms of excluding a marginalised group, FINA is literally making a category to ensure their participation, so I don't think that argument holds any weight.

 

[Keys]

The problem of transgender people playing sports could be solved by removing separate male and female competitions

Just have one category open to everyone

Also solves the problem of unequal prize money as there’d no longer be a distinction. Women would have the same prize available as men

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

The problem of transgender people playing sports could be solved by removing separate male and female competitions

Just have one category open to everyone

Also solves the problem of unequal prize money as there’d no longer be a distinction. Women would have the same prize available as men

Boxing might be problematic.

 

[kane249]

It's on the extreme scale of things, but there's a former WWE wrestler who transitioned. Was previously known as Tyler Reks when they were a man and was 6'5" and 110kgs (on the right below)

Can you imagine a normal woman coming up against that in any competition? It's an unfair advantage.

Equality and rights are one thing, but there are certain situations where their previous birth identity will give them advantages.


No matter how you slice this one, there was always going to be someone unhappy with the outcome. Setting the cut off age 12 before they hit puberty and having transgender athletes compete against each other is the fairest of the outcomes IMO.


As for why we haven't seen it before, it's because we are seeing more people being able to express themselves and change to the gender they feel more comfortable with. It's a good thing as too many people were previously repressed by society's judgements, but with it comes new situations that we've never had to properly address before.

There's a lot of uncharted territory on this one, and more to come

 

[Dazzler9]

It's on the extreme scale of things, but there's a former WWE wrestler who transitioned. Was previously known as Tyler Reks when they were a man and was 6'5" and 110kgs (on the right below)

Can you imagine a normal woman coming up against that in any competition? It's an unfair advantage.

Equality and rights are one thing, but there are certain situations where their previous birth identity will give them advantages.


No matter how you slice this one, there was always going to be someone unhappy with the outcome. Setting the cut off age 12 before they hit puberty and having transgender athletes compete against each other is the fairest of the outcomes IMO.


As for why we haven't seen it before, it's because we are seeing more people being able to express themselves and change to the gender they feel more comfortable with. It's a good thing as too many people were previously repressed by society's judgements, but with it comes new situations that we've never had to properly address before.

There's a lot of uncharted territory on this one, and more to come

Thanks for clarifying that.

 

[RookiePick]

Egads. It's escaped from SRP.

 

[Mr Eagle]

The problem of transgender people playing sports could be solved by removing separate male and female competitions

Just have one category open to everyone

Also solves the problem of unequal prize money as there’d no longer be a distinction. Women would have the same prize available as men

And would men have the same uniform requirements as the ladies in sports like beach volleyball?

 

[Ochre]

It's on the extreme scale of things, but there's a former WWE wrestler who transitioned. Was previously known as Tyler Reks when they were a man and was 6'5" and 110kgs (on the right below)

Can you imagine a normal woman coming up against that in any competition? It's an unfair advantage.

Equality and rights are one thing, but there are certain situations where their previous birth identity will give them advantages.


No matter how you slice this one, there was always going to be someone unhappy with the outcome. Setting the cut off age 12 before they hit puberty and having transgender athletes compete against each other is the fairest of the outcomes IMO.


As for why we haven't seen it before, it's because we are seeing more people being able to express themselves and change to the gender they feel more comfortable with. It's a good thing as too many people were previously repressed by society's judgements, but with it comes new situations that we've never had to properly address before.

There's a lot of uncharted territory on this one, and more to come

We're talking about sport here though

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

What’s the AFLW’s rule on this? With the growth in the women’s game I’m sure it’ll become an issue before too long.

 

[Dazzler9]

Egads. It's escaped from SRP.

Yeah, my bad. It was an interesting sports news item that came up. Happy to switch to the Socceroos or West Coast Fever.

 

[kane249]

We're talking about sport here though

We are still talking about it. There has been more acceptance of Transgender people in society and with it comes their participation in sport.

As I said, it's a good thing they are feeling more empowered but with it has come a whole lot of grey areas that's never been addressed properly before.

There' no cookie cutter definitive answer for a lot of this.

 

[Dazzler9]

What’s the AFLW’s rule on this? With the growth in the women’s game I’m sure it’ll become an issue before too long.

They barred Hannah Mouncey from playing c ouple years back. But in the same ruling they allowed her to play VFLW.

 

[Dazzler9]

We are still talking about it. There has been more acceptance of Transgender people in society and with it comes their participation in sport.

As I said, it's a good thing they are feeling more empowered but with it has come a whole lot of grey areas that's never been addressed properly before.

There' no cookie cutter definitive answer for a lot of this.

(I think Ochre was having a sly dig at wrestling being called a sport)

 

[Ochre]

(I think Ochre was having a sly dig at wrestling being called a sport)

I don't think it was sly

 

[kane249]

(I think Ochre was having a sly dig at wrestling being called a sport)

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Yeah, my bad. It was an interesting sports news item that came up. Happy to switch to the Socceroos or West Coast Fever.

Let’s take on something easy, like how to bring about Tasmania’s entry into the AFL.

 

[Ochre]

Not allowed to post gifs of posters irl. I'd take that down before Badge sees it.

 

[Ochre]

Let’s take on something easy, like how to bring about Tasmania’s entry into the AFL.

NO FOOTBALL