Realities of a young team

[JimmyR20]

Last night's game whilst disappointing and very winnable showed us the reality of supporting a young team which for better or worse we are.

A young team cannot win without one of the two things below happening if they're playing a mature side having a red hot crack.

1. Every senior player (for the sake of a definition lets call them 27+ year olds) in the side playing well
2. Multiple players playing exceptional games.

Last night these were our 27+ players
Howard- Tick
Wilkie- Tick
Webster- Cross
Sinclair- Tick
Hill- Cross
Marshall- Tick
Macrae- Tick
Steele- Tick

The effort was there but you look to these players to provide class, decision making and leadership to get you over the line and some didn't.

I hope as Ross Lyon looks to make changes, he chooses to do so primarily with the players over 27.

Of the younger players the only players I could make an argument for dropping are

Collard- Minimal opportunity and with Higgins possibly injured might stay in.
O'Connell- Goes hard but is still learning and may benefit from an easier environment.

Next week we play a side that is rebuilding, as such I hope we make minimal changes. Henry, Jones, Clark, Travalgia are all playing twos. Wood should be available.

Assuming for the sake of this post they all play well my changes next week would be the below.

Out: Hill, Webster
In: Wood, Clark

Wood would head back to the wing, Windhager would head back to the onball/sweeper in place of the role Hill was playing.

If Higgins is injured then whoever plays best out of Trav or Henry comes in.

Howard, Wilkie, Stocker
Nas, O'Connel, Sinclair

Wilson, Wood
Roma, Macrae, Steele, Garcia

Windy, Owens, Sharman
Higgins, Hammer, Collard


Pou, Hall, Clark, Byrnes

Sub: Boxshall

 

[LuckyBounce!]

Ross won’t drop Hill

 

[Coconut_twirl]

Keep playing Boxshall. Need to develop mids, so be it if he didn’t set the world on fire last night in the centre. Saints are a rebuilding side that are remaining (mostly) competitive side.

 

[saint66au]

Genuine question..

When are we NOT a young team? . We just seem stuck in a cycle of playing kids, finding theyre no good so drafting more kids. Rinse and repeat

Only exception was 2020 when we hit the trade persod hard, had a sugar hit of one finals year, then fell away, so..we play kids again?

 

[Saintbloke]

I'm getting a feeling that we are going around in circles as a club yet again- no real progress. I've seen this so many times in the decades of supporting the Saints. Not all the young guys will make it, and that's normal for any club. For the newer brigade, I see Hall as the one most likely to step up in the next season or two, but trying to develop the young guys at Sandy isn't working- it's a mess.

 

[Coconut_twirl]

I'm getting a feeling that we are going around in circles as a club yet again- no real progress. I've seen this so many times in the decades of supporting the Saints. Not all the young guys will make it, and that's normal for any club. For the newer brigade, I see Hall as the one most likely to step up in the next season or two, but trying to develop the young guys at Sandy isn't working- it's a mess.

Don’t rate Garcia, Wilson, Collard, Boxshall or Philipou. Cool story.

 

[Saintbloke]

Don’t rate Garcia, Wilson, Collard, Boxshall or Philipou. Cool story.

The jury is out for me as to how far those guys can go- Pou is the best of that group and I expect to establish himself, and Garcia and Wilson are serviceable but with flaws to be ironed out in their games if they want to go further. Collard not impressing me, and Boxshall we don't really know. It would be great if every young recruit came in and became a standout player -we would have multiple premierships, but it doesn't happen..it would be nice though.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I'm getting a feeling that we are going around in circles as a club yet again- no real progress. I've seen this so many times in the decades of supporting the Saints. Not all the young guys will make it, and that's normal for any club. For the newer brigade, I see Hall as the one most likely to step up in the next season or two, but trying to develop the young guys at Sandy isn't working- it's a mess.

You're right in that view point but it needs a generalist perspective to see the silver lining.
We're currently in the building phase again but our problem is the we can't overlap it with a successful phase which makes it harder and more opaque to reach judgements on progress. Our blue chip talents are only King, Nas and Pou and it's hard to see positives when 2/3 are absent.
We sit thereabouts in the 6th to 12th range where its hard to judge because we're in there along with teams that are building, declining or going nowhere.
Importantly, we need to remember that growth is not linear, so the week to week or month to month perspective is too fine a resolution to worry about.
If we just look at some basic statistics about our team l think it paints a pretty positive picture.
.Our age profile is bottom 4
.Our talant profile is concentrated in the U23s
This should dictate that we're a bottom 4 team, so we're greatly out performing on that metric.
Reasons for that are:
.Number of games played by the U23s
.Ross Lyon
Since most would agree our senior group is average at best, it means the youth is performing at above average, dragging us up to the middle tier.
We were at this point in the cycle under both Richo and Ratts, so the question is Why/how is it different this time, which comes back to the previous 4 points, assuming your prepared to grant that Ross is a superior coach to the other two.
I'd add to that, the club and footy dpt are also now in a position to underpin continued growth.

None of this BTW means we'll get a premiership from this group. What it does indicate is that the club as a whole is now properly positioned to break out from the valley of death over the next 2 years.

From my POV, having had the hardest start to the season as well as one of the worst preseason injury lists is not something that can be ignored, and IMHO the Scum game is really the only one so far that we let get away. On paper they should have smashed us, but they're under performing and (gloriously) about to implode.
Personally l expected a spluttering first half of the season, and that was before the injuries and the draw.
To tie this off coz l need to get on with the day, I'll give a few positives, which l view as pieces of the wider tapestry.
.Snags is now elite
.Coops is now very good and still getting better
.Chito is back in business
.NAS
.Windy is consistently good
.Stocker has improved and is now a lock best 22
This is demonstrable growth.
.LOC will be a player
.Collard too
.Box too

IMHO this year and last year are the building blocks. If the can take what we have at the end of this season and add TDK, King and a KPD we'll be off and running. The midfield issue is something l don't see an obvious answer to though. It may become apparent if Pou gets going or maybe it waits till next year. We still need to attract a premo bull mid.

 

[Diehard Saint]

The jury is out for me as to how far those guys can go- Pou is the best of that group and I expect to establish himself, and Garcia and Wilson are serviceable but with flaws to be ironed out in their games if they want to go further. Collard not impressing me, and Boxshall we don't really know. It would be great if every young recruit came in and became a standout player -we would have multiple premierships, but it doesn't happen..it would be nice though.

Uh, no kidding.
One and a half seasons into their footy career.
Ditto Collard and Boxshall.

Our expectations are often completely out of whack with reality.

 

[Teflon]

Keep playing Boxshall. Need to develop mids, so be it if he didn’t set the world on fire last night in the centre. Saints are a rebuilding side that are remaining (mostly) competitive side.

I agree has talent must play him

 

[Coconut_twirl]

Uh, no kidding.
One and a half seasons into their footy career.
Ditto Collard and Boxshall.

Our expectations are often completely out of whack with reality.

It’s a little embarrassing reading some of these posts after a loss sometimes.

People forget Montagna and Goddard took a few seasons to cement themselves as consistent players. It’s not like Lenny Hayes dominated the competition from his first season. Takes time.