List Mgmt. Rebuild or refresh?

[4tune8]

We have been in a rebuild/refresh mode for the last 10 years and it's been done primarily through the draft. It's what has set us apart from the previous successful teams of the last 20 years.

I could go through all of the picks over that time but suffice to say that most of the picks have contributed, are contributing or hopefully will contribute over that period of time.

We would be fooling ourselves if the list managers and recruiting department were'nt 'all over' our list profile during that time up to and including this year and beyond.

 

[Mr Magic]

We have been in a rebuild/refresh mode for the last 10 years and it's been done primarily through the draft. It's what has set us apart from the previous successful teams of the last 20 years.

I could go through all of the picks over that time but suffice to say that most of the picks have contributed, are contributing or hopefully will contribute over that period of time.

We would be fooling ourselves if the list managers and recruiting department were'nt 'all over' our list profile during that time up to and including this year and beyond.

If you get guys like Battle, Lipinski, Brander, and others in terms of age theoretically the club can do both in terms of rebuilding and refresh

 

[4tune8]

fu** that.

While we have Martin, Cotch, Short, Jack, Nank the Tank, Graham, Baker, Grimes, Bolton, Balta, Lynch, Edwards, Prestia, Lambart we should aiming for 2022 win. You can easily build a team around that with our other young ones and role players.

Add 3 top 25 picks from the draft for list health management, and hope at least one of them can be best 22 next year.

We were just wrecked from 4 deep finals campaigns, other teams weren't and wanted it more this year.

The players will essentially get 6 months off from until around 1 next year. That's plenty of time for a refresh and big pre-season.

We are still a very good team.

Agreed and it's actually 4 picks inside 28 and 6 inside 45.

 

[4tune8]

If you get guys like Battle, Lipinski, Brander, and others in terms of age theoretically the club can do both

We haven't taken any rejects for a bloody long time and I can see no reason why we should start now, they are being delisted for a reason.

 

[Mr Magic]

We haven't taken any rejects for a bloody long time and I can see no reason why we should start now, they are being delisted for a reason.

Bombers went alright with their rejects.

Wright, The package

I am more concerned we have not turned enough over. Especially given Dusty can't do it all and we have a lot in the role category.

The other thing is we are an aging list and its harder for Dusty as he heads towards his late thirties.

You only have to look at reject Parker. His kicking is a bit iffy but he has made a impact and when a better role eventuates his effect might be even greater

Look at Pickett, he was not even a reject, he was a never was, and is now a multiple premiership player.

There are situations where players opportunities can be negated in certain club scenarios

Hogan has been a decent reject for GWS considering. He is far cheaper than Cameron.

Hogan actually looks like he might be about to turn the corner and get his confidence back based on last games effort in a couple of marks.

Ben Brown is another reject doing okay for Melbourne. They have a few traded in like Geelong have had. The important thing is they do not cost too much and compromise other options

 

[JR82]

We have been in a rebuild/refresh mode for the last 10 years and it's been done primarily through the draft. It's what has set us apart from the previous successful teams of the last 20 years.

I could go through all of the picks over that time but suffice to say that most of the picks have contributed, are contributing or hopefully will contribute over that period of time.

We would be fooling ourselves if the list managers and recruiting department were'nt 'all over' our list profile during that time up to and including this year and beyond.

U can guarantee we have been, hence we traded heavily into this Draft. We can go for the flag with our current core but we do need our younger guys to take the next step if we want to contend next yr & beyond. What works in our favour is we have always invested in the Draft during our time at the top, this should continue giving benefits going fwd. As for Battle & Brander etc, that's something we'd do in '12-15 just to be competitive. We now have a core of younger players, incl this yrs draftees to take on those roles.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Worth noting Pickett has had to play different roles in the same game more than most players.
Firstly he goes very hard at the man ( his brother Parker also has this trait), he plays wing, ruck , has to go deep in defense and occasional midfield. Has more strings to his now than Castagna, Aarts, Naish to mention a few


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Pickett is a solid utility but he turns it over a lot and makes poor decisions. $450k over 2-seasons plus bonus match payments is sufficient. Richmond doesn’t owe Pickett anything …. they provided him and his family with an amazing opportunity which he’s taken with both hands. $500-550k across 2 years is enough remuneration for a player of his age ranked 18-24 on your list.


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[Noidnadroj]

Go hard for the flag in 2022 & 23. Get Talia to support Balta - will cost us nothing in terms of picks or money. Get a midfielder like Lipinski for a mid-pick (perhaps the compensation pick we get for Chol) - his stats last year are almost identical to Parish 2-years ago at the same age and he’s proven he’s good enough to be a regular midfielder, with plenty of upside.

Let Caddy go to free up salary cap.

Then if we get close in 2022 or win it we go again. If we fall off the cliff in 2022 we’ve got a heap of young draftees from this year, plus Lipinski would only be 24yo, with his peak years ahead as we look to contend again from perhaps 2025 onwards. By that time we will have an absolute war chest of salary cap space to hopefully lure a top quality free agent, on the back of more
quality draft picks from 2022-23.

We had a stack of injuries this year, lost most of our close games and were hunted and clearly jaded late in the year. We are in a great position to launch as hard as we can for another flag 2022-23 without comprising our future at all.

Remember, Hawks traded out quality draft picks and a young gun in Burton for O’Meara, Mitchell and Wingard. That’s what set them back and won’t be the mistake we make.

Dustin Martin is not coming around again…. you cannot afford to die wondering.



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[bananatigz]

It's not as if the club has completely neglected youth throughout our period of success. I'm not sure where this notion comes from that we all of a sudden need to throw everything we've built inthe bin to invest in youth or we will fall off a cliff.

Higgins*, CCJ, Balta, Naish*, Baker,
RCD, Ross, Turner*, English*, Aarts, Townsend*, Weller*, Stack
Dow, Cumberland, Martyn, Ralphsmith, Biggy
Ryan, MRJ, Mansell, DES, Parker

That's who have come into the club the last few years and whilst there are a few misses as there always will be, not a bad little group. Perhaps lacking a bit of a-grade talent, but that's unavoidable given where we have been on the ladder. Bolded I reckon can play big parts for us moving forward, and I'm far from writing off the likes of Ross, Cumberland, Martyn and Mansell.

That said there's plenty of talent and promise in that group, not to mention Bolton who was the year previous. Add another 4 (or maybe more) inside 30 this year, it's hardly panic stations.

 

[Andyy]

Personally I trust the club to know if we are still in the window.

If we are in the window I give them every permission of my own to throw the sink and whatever else it takes to win another flag. I don't care if we end up bottom 4 for 5+ years after that, I will pay for my reserved seat every damned year.

To compete again I think we need:
2 good inside mids (?Cerra, Wallis, Parker, Hopper)
Another KPD (Tahlia?) as depth
Another GOOD forward, maybe a medium who can do a bit of marking and chasing. RCD could do this I reckon, good size, mark and kick.

I would also consider:
- swap KMac and Broad roles. Broad is fit enough to play wing and better by foot. KMac has experience in the backline from 2020 and is a stronger build albeit less agile.
- Mansell and Rioli to be our main small defenders. Short to move up to the wing as his defensive game is modest.
- Stack in the forward line to keep George honest.
- Cotch to play less games and less game time. He isn't up to it week in week out anymore.
- Put a rocket up Lynch's ass. Maybe he's been sore I dunno, but he's definitely been crap and soft all year.
- Ross to put on 5kg and stop being played outside. Inside only and leave him there.
- Graham inside only. No HF flank crap.
- RCD to forward line.
- Soldo needs to play in addition to Nank. We are better with a legit big ruck.

 

[JR82]

Go hard for the flag in 2022 & 23. Get Talia to support Balta - will cost us nothing in terms of picks or money. Get a midfielder like Lipinski for a mid-pick (perhaps the compensation pick we get for Chol) - his stats last year are almost identical to Parish 2-years ago at the same age and he’s proven he’s good enough to be a regular midfielder, with plenty of upside.

Let Caddy go to free up salary cap.

Then if we get close in 2022 or win it we go again. If we fall off the cliff in 2022 we’ve got a heap of young draftees from this year, plus Lipinski would only be 24yo, with his peak years ahead as we look to contend again from perhaps 2025 onwards. By that time we will have an absolute war chest of salary cap space to hopefully lure a top quality free agent, on the back of more
quality draft picks from 2022-23.

We had a stack of injuries this year, lost most of our close games and were hunted and clearly jaded late in the year. We are in a great position to launch as hard as we can for another flag 2022-23 without comprising our future at all.

Remember, Hawks traded out quality draft picks and a young gun in Burton for O’Meara, Mitchell and Wingard. That’s what set them back and won’t be the mistake we make.

Dustin Martin is not coming around again…. you cannot afford to die wondering.



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I agree 100%. I may have previously posted to the contrary but i'll clarify it, as ever we send the team our from Rd 1 next with the Flag as the target, but as far as list Management goes we look to the future. Our Premiershuip side is still good enough for another 1 with some tweaking of the game plan etc. If we can get back to contention next yr with some kids in the side that is great for our future.

 

[RobsJourney]

Personally I trust the club to know if we are still in the window.

If we are in the window I give them every permission of my own to throw the sink and whatever else it takes to win another flag. I don't care if we end up bottom 4 for 5+ years after that, I will pay for my reserved seat every damned year.

To compete again I think we need:
2 good inside mids (?Cerra, Wallis, Parker, Hopper)
Another KPD (Tahlia?) as depth
Another GOOD forward, maybe a medium who can do a bit of marking and chasing. RCD could do this I reckon, good size, mark and kick.

I would also consider:
- swap KMac and Broad roles. Broad is fit enough to play wing and better by foot. KMac has experience in the backline from 2020 and is a stronger build albeit less agile.
- Mansell and Rioli to be our main small defenders. Short to move up to the wing as his defensive game is modest.
- Stack in the forward line to keep George honest.
- Cotch to play less games and less game time. He isn't up to it week in week out anymore.
- Put a rocket up Lynch's ass. Maybe he's been sore I dunno, but he's definitely been crap and soft all year.
- Ross to put on 5kg and stop being played outside. Inside only and leave him there.
- Graham inside only. No HF flank crap.
- RCD to forward line.
- Soldo needs to play in addition to Nank. We are better with a legit big ruck.

Broady was trialled on a wing in part of 2020, didn't appear to work. This was when Kmac was out of the side and not looking like getting back in.

 

[Mr Magic]

Broady was trialled on a wing in part of 2020, didn't appear to work. This was when Kmac was out of the side and not looking like getting back in.

why would it work?

Its crazy some of the attempts people keep throwing up to create makeshift wingman

 

[JR82]

Don't rob Peter to pay Paul. That's like Carlton paying Williams a fortune to be a player he's not.

 

[Andyy]

Broady was trialled on a wing in part of 2020, didn't appear to work. This was when Kmac was out of the side and not looking like getting back in.

Broads disposal and overall ability has improved every year IMO, including this year.

I'd give it another go.

 

[RobsJourney]

Broads disposal and overall ability has improved every year IMO, including this year.

I'd give it another go.

Honestly reckon we'd miss having him down back. He wouldn't be much of an upgrade on KMac if at all, so we're better off keeping him where we know he shines.

 

[Bird Man]

this cats side desimated our side thsi year and now look at them.

The rebuild for us should be on. The top sides have gone to another level

 

[Mr Magic]

this cats side desimated our side thsi year and now look at them.

The rebuild for us should be on. The top sides have gone to another level

I think we could win in 3-4 years if we dip for a few years

 

[Lord of the Wings]

I think we could win in 3-4 years if we dip for a few years

No chance - our time is now

 

[Mr Magic]

No chance - our time is now

Very hard to ask Dusty , Bolton and Balta to carry the load against that Melbourne opposition.

Really need a few more years to build up some support and extra capacity while giving capacity for Melbourne to get weaker as their cap blows.

I know we are better than Geelong, but still, its a tough ask now and next year in particular

 

[RJK Tiger]

the longer this season goes the more sure i am of a rebuild. The class of Richmond, Geelong, West Coast & Collingwood is over. If we hurry up we might be able to get ourselves back in the window within 4-5 years, much like the Dogs did after 2016

 

[Mr Magic]

the longer this season goes the more sure i am of a rebuild. The class of Richmond, Geelong, West Coast & Collingwood is over. If we hurry up we might be able to get ourselves back in the window within 4-5 years, much like the Dogs did after 2016

think we can get back before 4-5 though if we are smart

 

[RJK Tiger]

think we can get back before 4-5 though if we are smart

For sure. I think we can get back to be top 4 just based on that existing core getting fit and back into form.

But, as we saw tonight - being "Top 4" doesn't always mean a lot, I think we would be a good margin behind the teams above us still.

 

[Mr Magic]

For sure. I think we can get back to be top 4 just based on that existing core getting fit and back into form.

But, as we saw tonight - being "Top 4" doesn't always mean a lot, I think we would be a good margin behind the teams above us still.

Yeah being thereabouts like Geelong does not interest me

 

[JR82]

GeeLOL showed us yet again that topping up only gets you so far. Send the side out next yr & beyond with the promised land in mind but list management from now is all about the future, including this draft. the next wave is already coming through & we have a great chance to add to it.