Recession is on the way - Part IV

[nut]

{ Continued from http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=535299 }

So you think Australian resource companies should be nationalised?

ABSOLUTELY

It's OUR RESOURCES. For all. Just like Norway did, a country that has NO net debt and has a FUND that will secure it for centuries after it's oil runs out.

 

[Chops_a_must]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

So you don't understand that most government revenue comes from taxes?

Of course I do.

What you are failing to understand is the logic of the process you are so in love with.


All things being equal, is the aggregate wealth of a nation the same if it is all held in government hands, or all held privately?

If you can't understand that, well...

 

[nut]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

Of course I do.

What you are failing to understand is the logic of the process you are so in love with.


All things being equal, is the aggregate wealth of a nation the same if it is all held in government hands, or all held privately?

If you can't understand that, well...

You see more government money means less for the rich.... which is what he cant seem to get his head around.... he would rather see the rich get riche... and spread the wealth north to those who can afford to get richer.

 

[TheBloods]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

Of course I do.

What you are failing to understand is the logic of the process you are so in love with.


All things being equal, is the aggregate wealth of a nation the same if it is all held in government hands, or all held privately?

If you can't understand that, well...

That was my point. If the government is richer, the taxpayer is poorer. Each person has less of his own money. The argument that the government should have investments instead of the people directly is rather weak. Most times it doesn't work.

 

[Chops_a_must]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

You see more government money means less for the rich.... which is what he cant seem to get his head around.... he would rather see the rich get riche... and spread the wealth north to those who can afford to get richer.

I don't think it's that.

He just can't do basic math.

Or follow simple logic. Which is obviously a small problem if you are in finance.

 

[TheBloods]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

You see more government money means less for the rich.... which is what he cant seem to get his head around.... he would rather see the rich get riche... and spread the wealth north to those who can afford to get richer.

Half the Australian population owns shares.

 

[Chops_a_must]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

If the government is richer, the taxpayer is poorer.

Again with the basic math.

What is 1 + 1?

Is it the same as 2?

How many ways can you express it that have exactly the same number, 2?

 

[TheBloods]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

can you please point to where you said that???? I missed it.

and now can you please explain why it's bad that the Government is not in Debt?

Post 978.

 

[nut]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

Half the Australian population owns shares.

Yep and your point is????

 

[TheBloods]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

Again with the basic math.

What is 1 + 1?

Is it the same as 2?

How many ways can you express it that have exactly the same number, 2?

Okay, here is another way to explain it.

Taxpayer makes $100 income.
Taxes are 30%.
Expenses are $20.
Taxpayer invests remaining $50.
Government has $30.

Taxpayer makes $100 income.
Taxes are 45%.
Expenses are $20.
Taxpayer invests remaining $35.
Government has $45.

 

[TheBloods]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

Yep and your point is????

That not just rich people own shares, despite your socialist rant.

 

[nut]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

Post 978.

And how many previous post did you deny it????

I've already demonstrated quite clearly to you that their after-tax real income, adjusted for cost of living, is no higher than Australia's and their government also has more debt.

Government debt is ~$80bn or 20% of GDP.

http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/00/00/10/economic-indicators/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Norway

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/economics/list-of-national-debt-by-country/

http://www.indexmundi.com/norway/debt_external.html

Australia has $700bn in superannuation funds under management.

I sure missed your apology.... can you send me the post number for that. And by the way I accept your appology.

 

[TheBloods]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

And how many previous post did you deny it????





I sure missed your apology.... can you send me the post number for that. And by the way I accept your appology.

I was talking about debt. I referred to debt and I linked it to the Government website which also gave a number for debt. What I said was totally correct and exactly what the Norwegian Government disclose.

 

[nut]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

That not just rich people own shares, despite your socialist rant.

Gee it took a while to resort to the " socialist rant " . So please explain how the Norwegian Socialist Democratic Governmemt has let down half it's population to benefit the entire population??

 

[morgoth]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

You see more government money means less for the rich.... which is what he cant seem to get his head around.... he would rather see the rich get riche... and spread the wealth north to those who can afford to get richer.

Laughable stuff. The commies are out tonight.

 

[nut]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

I was talking about debt. I referred to debt and I linked it to the Government website which also gave a number for debt. What I said was totally correct and exactly what the Norwegian Government disclose.

Yes If I have $100,000 in savings but I owe $5000 on a credit card I have some debt. The Norwegian Government has NO net Debt. YOU SAID THEY DID.

Can except that you were wrong?

 

[Chops_a_must]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

Okay, here is another way to explain it.

Taxpayer makes $100 income.
Taxes are 30%.
Expenses are $20.

Taxpayer invests remaining $50.
Government has $30.
= $80

Taxpayer makes $100 income.
Taxes are 45%.
Expenses are $20.

Taxpayer invests remaining $35.
Government has $45.
= $80

You're still failing grade 3.

Lets make it simple.

If I have $100.

I put it in my sock... now

I put my left leg in, I put my left leg out, I put my left leg in and I shake it all about. I do the Hokey Pokey and I turn around. That's what it's all about.

Is it still $100?

 

[nut]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

Laughable stuff. The commies are out tonight.

I'm no Commie... and Norway is far from a Commie country.... a smart country but not a communist country.

Can you explain to me why our natural resources shouldn't be shared??? with all people in Australia?

Can you explain to me what is good about spending every cent you have now rather than saving some?

 

[TheBloods]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

Yes If I have $100,000 in savings but I owe $5000 on a credit card I have some debt. The Norwegian Government has NO net Debt. YOU SAID THEY DID.

Can except that you were wrong?

The word is 'accept' and when did I say they had net debt? I was referring to them having debt, which they do.

 

[nut]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

The word is 'accept' and when did I say they had net debt? I was referring to them having debt, which they do.

hahaha.... on the bottom of their balance sheet do they have debt?

 

[TheBloods]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

You're still failing grade 3.

Lets make it simple.

If I have $100.

I put it in my sock... now

I put my left leg in, I put my left leg out, I put my left leg in and I shake it all about. I do the Hokey Pokey and I turn around. That's what it's all about.

Is it still $100?

So you don't mind whether you have $100 or you give it to the government?

There are two points to this:
- over the course of history, the private sector is more effective at investing than government so it is better for the private sector to have surplus funds rather than the goverment.
- if you are going to compare debt levels and use the wealth fund as an offset, you need to take into account private superfunds too, because that's where some of the lower taxes have gone.

 

[TheBloods]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

hahaha.... on the bottom of their balance sheet do they have debt?

Refer the link - they have debt. In their balance sheet, on their liability side, they have debt.

 

[morgoth]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

I'm no Commie... and Norway is far from a Commie country.... a smart country but not a communist country.

Can you explain to me why our natural resources shouldn't be shared??? with all people in Australia?

Can you explain to me what is good about spending every cent you have now rather than saving some?

Hello, there is this thing called the future fund. Has $70b in it, was set up to fund public servent pensions. Of course to continue to fund it you need budget surpluses, but we won't see any of those soon will we.

Not shared??? No the people who work in the industry are not taxed, the companies do not pay taxes on profits, GST, FBT and other associated taxes, do not get charged royalty fees, licencing fees etc. And of course the assets they developed were all funded by the taxpayer and shareholders just sat back and took no risks.

Have a look at the budget figures the loot the govt makes from this sector is massive at both the state and federal levels. The fact they waste it your eyes is not shareholders fault. To save money you have to spend less than you earn, the libs under Howard did it, you might argue they should have saved more, but the fact is they did and today it sits in the future fund.

None of you lefties even want to acknoweldge its existence (and pleas dont play they 'they sold assets card, so did Hawke and Keating and they left nothing but debt).

 

[Chops_a_must]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

So you don't mind whether you have $100 or you give it to the government?

This was not a debate about the application of money. I haven't expressed my views on the matter in this particular debate.

The debate was one based on logic and simple math, and you failed miserably.

The premise being that all things being equal, wealth is in aggregate identical if it is held individually or at a national level.

 

[nut]

Re: Recession is on the way Part III

The word is 'accept' and when did I say they had net debt? I was referring to them having debt, which they do.

I've already demonstrated quite clearly to you that their after-tax real income, adjusted for cost of living, is no higher than Australia's and their government also has more debt.

????? so you didn't type that???

So you don't mind whether you have $100 or you give it to the government?

There are two points to this:
- over the course of history, the private sector is more effective at investing than government so it is better for the private sector to have surplus funds rather than the goverment.
- if you are going to compare debt levels and use the wealth fund as an offset, you need to take into account private superfunds too, because that's where some of the lower taxes have gone.

My personally belief that our natural resources are our security for the future. Once it's gone then we will have nothing, when people loose their mining jobs the property market will fall and the entire wealth of the country will decrease... The rich will need to build bigger fences to keep the ferals out.
We have spent very little of this wealth on future industries.... and Companies like Rio Tinto and BHP are not either.

Refer the link - they have debt. In their balance sheet, on their liability side, they have debt.

You twit.