Society/Culture Recessions cost lives? Apparently they actually save lives.

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Evolved1

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 14, 2013
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The lockdown state
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Essendon
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I don't know, but I'm willing to try. That doesn't mean everywhere needs to be within walking distance of a train station, but it would require a lot more buses to ensure that train-bus connections of good frequency exist so people can get anywhere easily. Maybe even trams, I see no big reason why all trams in Melbourne have to go through the city.


Pandemics are temporary. Congestion will return in time.


Regardless of what they run on, private vehicles create congestion. Building more roads is not a solution to congestion. Any civil engineer worth their salt will tell you that.
If public transport options make trip time significantly longer than a car ride, most people will prefer their car because workers are generally time poor. Property prices have pushed the working class out to rural areas like Ballarat, Packenham and Geelong, who then commute to Melbourne for work.

The main problem I have with our road system in Victoria is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of forward thinking. On the main freeway into Melbourne from the sth east suburbs, a new lane is added every few years. Surely it would have been easier and cheaper to build 3 lanes at once.

I'd like to think WFH becomes a permanent change, and that could solve a lot of the congestion while providing other benefits to workers and their employers.

To fix the public transport system would require massive funding (I wouldn't know where to begin estimating figures btw).
 

Evolved1

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Jun 14, 2013
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Support services were busier. It's possible the time at home gave people more time for introspection and then to seek help.
The time at home made people go nuts. I've seen differences in friends, family members and colleagues, some of whom are still dealing with personal and family issues that came as a result of the extended lockdown.

No hard stats, but I've seen enough evidence to satisfy me.
 

ferball

Premium Platinum
Jul 24, 2015
28,197
53,803
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Seriously, I was on board with the idea of “death from fear of Covid” being a serious issue, same for mental health issues and suicide.

It doesn’t seem to have happened on a big scale that I can see.

I am probably wrong about just about everything I believe, though.
Some kid committed suicide cos in the middle of last year their Robinhood (or some other) trading app told them they were in about 800K debt. I imagine the people pushing the covid lockdown = suicide watercart would have conveniently ignored that if they were trying to make a case against lockdowns.

Maybe without Covid he'd have been doing something else that day and would still be alive.

Personally I can't see anyone killing themselves over covid alone. It would have to involve other factors, depression or overwhelming circumstances wouldn't it? But Covid kills with other factors/co morbidities and we don't ignore it then.
 

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Johnny Bananas

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 10, 2010
9,368
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Brisbane Lions
If public transport options make trip time significantly longer than a car ride, most people will prefer their car because workers are generally time poor.
I'm sure you're correct, that's why I want public transport to be so good that it's comparable with car ride times, at least in Sydney and Melbourne. It'd be much harder to implement that anywhere else, although I'd still want to improve services in other places too. Not everyone is able to drive. Fully self-driving cars could help that, but we're a few decades off from that happening, and if everyone is taking them, there will still be congestion.

Property prices have pushed the working class out to rural areas like Ballarat, Packenham and Geelong, who then commute to Melbourne for work.
Addressing property prices is another thing I mentioned in my first post, and it's a real shame people have to do that. I don't see either major party willing to do what it takes to lower property prices though, firstly because almost every politician has their own property portfolio, secondly because all the people investing in property will never vote for them again if the value of their investment declines significantly.

The main problem I have with our road system in Victoria is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of forward thinking. On the main freeway into Melbourne from the sth east suburbs, a new lane is added every few years. Surely it would have been easier and cheaper to build 3 lanes at once.
This country doesn't do forward planning well. Plus, this shows you that building more lanes doesn't fix congestion. The same money poured into more frequent train and bus services would have gone a lot further towards reducing congestion.

I'd like to think WFH becomes a permanent change, and that could solve a lot of the congestion while providing other benefits to workers and their employers.
I hope so too.

To fix the public transport system would require massive funding (I wouldn't know where to begin estimating figures btw).
Sometimes, you have to spend money to make money as a nation. That should be the Labor Party's motto, but they're more concerned with pandering to popular sentiment in the hope of short-term electoral gain rather than carrying out a vision.
 

Gethelred

Brownlow Medallist
May 1, 2016
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Carlton
I'd be very surprised if mental health issues didn't spike during the Melbourne lockdown.
I'd like someone with a better understanding of this stuff than I have to tell me whether it's a) that covid lockdown based isolation has caused mental health issues, or b) that covid lockdown based isolation has given people that already had mental health problems time at home to stop and actually be ill, instead of constantly being locked in the 9 to 5.

I think we were working too much before covid, and this has - if anything - demonstrated that we spent too much time travelling to and from work. I think that we drank too much as a form of self-medication pre covid, because it was a form of stress relief. While I'm not a psychologist - or anything close - I'd like to see something researching this sort of thing.
 

Evolved1

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 14, 2013
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The lockdown state
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I'd like someone with a better understanding of this stuff than I have to tell me whether it's a) that covid lockdown based isolation has caused mental health issues, or b) that covid lockdown based isolation has given people that already had mental health problems time at home to stop and actually be ill, instead of constantly being locked in the 9 to 5.

I think we were working too much before covid, and this has - if anything - demonstrated that we spent too much time travelling to and from work. I think that we drank too much as a form of self-medication pre covid, because it was a form of stress relief. While I'm not a psychologist - or anything close - I'd like to see something researching this sort of thing.
I'm no expert, but from what I do know I'm confident that mental illness doesn't surface when people have time to rest.

As a parent, I was particularly watchful and concerned about the effects of the lockdown on my son who loves his social life. I noticed changes in him, though thankfully nothing severe.

A friend of mine fared worse. Both of their children required mental health intervention after the lockdown, and both were relatively happy and healthy beforehand.

We're social animals, and human interaction is paramount to our psychological health. Saving old people from dying of covid is just one health metric, yet it seems to be all that matters to some.
 

Ned_Flanders

Premium Platinum
Aug 22, 2009
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I'm no expert, but from what I do know I'm confident that mental illness doesn't surface when people have time to rest.

As a parent, I was particularly watchful and concerned about the effects of the lockdown on my son who loves his social life. I noticed changes in him, though thankfully nothing severe.

A friend of mine fared worse. Both of their children required mental health intervention after the lockdown, and both were relatively happy and healthy beforehand.

We're social animals, and human interaction is paramount to our psychological health. Saving old people from dying of covid is just one health metric, yet it seems to be all that matters to some.

Less likely to occur. Not "doesn't"

Mental illness is a very broach banner for a lot of very different illnesses, some related to brain chemistry and some genetics. The amount of rest you have is irrelevant in some, and an influencer not a cause in others.
 

medusala

Cancelled
Aug 14, 2004
37,209
8,414
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AFL Club
Hawthorn
Um you get even more people will avoid hospitals if theyre overrun with covid patients. Thats the reason some people are avoiding going to the hospital.

NO. They are avoiding hospitals out of fear of catching the virus.

Ofcourse if hospitals are completely overrun then people with other medical issues often wont even be given a choice to go to hospital because there will be no beds or doctors to treat them.

Was the Swedish system overrrun? Were all the Nightingale hospitals in England full?

NO. Not even close.

Forget what you read in the Oz press, its 90% hysterical nonsense. Lets not forget journos tend to be as thick as mince and lazy as toads. Very rare to find one that has even a basic understanding of simple statistics.
 

Seeds

Hall of Famer
Sep 15, 2007
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NO. They are avoiding hospitals out of fear of catching the virus.



Was the Swedish system overrrun? Were all the Nightingale hospitals in England full?

NO. Not even close.

Forget what you read in the Oz press, its 90% hysterical nonsense. Lets not forget journos tend to be as thick as mince and lazy as toads. Very rare to find one that has even a basic understanding of simple statistics.
Fu** me. that is my point. They are avoiding hospitals out of fear of catching the virus. So stopping the virus through lockdowns and border control will reduce that fear thus resulting in people to go back to hospitals.
 

owen87

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 23, 2016
17,810
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Sweden tightened restrictions in November when their expanded ICU system reached 80% capacity

Their public health measures are now materially in line with most of Europe

But that doesn't suit the narrative...
 

medusala

Cancelled
Aug 14, 2004
37,209
8,414
Loftus Road
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Fu** me. that is my point. They are avoiding hospitals out of fear of catching the virus. So stopping the virus through lockdowns and border control will reduce that fear thus resulting in people to go back to hospitals.

NO NO NO

Its an utter disgrace the scaring of people with BS about how extremely dangerous the virus is to most.

If you are under 60 without a serious underlying health condition you are more likely to die in a car crash.

Moron journalists and politicians are causing vast numbers of unnecessary deaths. Even the govt in the UK has had to admit to the deaths caused by lockdowns (and they are hardly going to talk them up).



Overall, scientists suggest there will be 105,000 additional deaths because of the enormous disruption to non-Covid NHS care, as well as the economic downturn.
 

medusala

Cancelled
Aug 14, 2004
37,209
8,414
Loftus Road
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Sweden tightened restrictions in November when their expanded ICU system reached 80% capacity

Their public health measures are now materially in line with most of Europe

No they are not unless i have missed something. They have far less restrictions than most of western Europe.

January 8, 2021


STOCKHOLM (Reuters) - Sweden tightened social distancing rules for shopping centres, gyms and private gatherings on Friday and said it was ready to close businesses if needed, but stopped short of a lockdown to fight the spread of the pandemic.
 

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Seeds

Hall of Famer
Sep 15, 2007
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NO NO NO

Its an utter disgrace the scaring of people with BS about how extremely dangerous the virus is to most.

If you are under 60 without a serious underlying health condition you are more likely to die in a car crash.

Moron journalists and politicians are causing vast numbers of unnecessary deaths. Even the govt in the UK has had to admit to the deaths caused by lockdowns (and they are hardly going to talk them up).



Overall, scientists suggest there will be 105,000 additional deaths because of the enormous disruption to non-Covid NHS care, as well as the economic downturn.
This may well be true. Still doesnt change the fact that successful lockdowns make people less fearful about hospitals regardless of how scared they are about the virus. This has been proven in australia. We are more scared of the virus then any nation on earth. We shutdown whole states for one single community case. Yet we are all going to the hospitals because we know the virus isnt there now.

plus your point ignores the fact that if hospitals are overrun with virus cases then there is simply not enough doctors and beds to treat all the people with other illnesses regardless of fear.
 

medusala

Cancelled
Aug 14, 2004
37,209
8,414
Loftus Road
AFL Club
Hawthorn
This may well be true. Still doesnt change the fact that successful lockdowns make people less fearful about hospitals regardless of how scared they are about the virus. This has been proven in australia. We are more scared of the virus then any nation on earth.

Once were proud ANZACS. Now utterly pathetic and vote in limp muppets like Arts boy Andrews.

The reputation of Australia has been trashed by fools like him and ScoMo.
 

Chief

Chugging Adrenochrome
Dec 1, 1999
105,058
84,805
Gates' Payroll
AFL Club
Carlton
Once were proud ANZACS. Now utterly pathetic and vote in limp muppets like Arts boy Andrews.

The reputation of Australia has been trashed by fools like him and ScoMo.
Everyone I hear talking about Australia talks about us with admiration and a desire to move here.
 

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