Recruitment: Are we in trouble?

Belltower

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#51
Oh I'm not suggesting for a second that no other teams have had busts - every team does. I just think our overall list management and recruitment strategy has made our busts hurt more than they should, because we had a few years where we drafted the bare minimum, and instead upgraded mediocre rookies.

I understand this is a thread about recruitment, but I guess I'm referring more to the way we've handled our overall list and selection policy.
Okay I get where you are coming from, but it was masterstroke keeping mcgovern on the list, lol. Dick and a few others were rookies we didn't need to upgrade. At least we didn't make the mistake of Dayle Garlett and a lot of the people were complaining about the Sheed thing because we coupled up 2 picks to get him and yeo. Patty Cripps would have been good, well done Carlton but he rocketed up in the order late,but everyone was saying we missed out on freeman, scharenberg, aish etc, how are they all going. I would take yeo or sheed ahead of any of them. Look at st Kilda they picked Jack Billings and he is a small forward/mid type when the Bont was available. It is not an exact science, I cannot believe mcginnity is still on the list, but he is, I would have kept dalziell instead, because he can at least find the pill at afl level.

I think our midfield injuries have really hampered us as a few of the blokes haven't got a full preseason in and that is one area we could not afford to have a slow start to the season. Plus the backs haven't really clicked with Ezy back, and too many easy goals have come over the back and in from marks inside 50
 

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Yamumluvsbigcox

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#52
Most clubs except the bottom clubs of the last 5 years have holes in their list .
GC and GWS have pillaged the drafts in 2010-11 and 2012 was a shit draftoutside the top 11 picks
.
We actually did well getting mcgovern rookie hutch at pick 60 , Nelson at 51 , barrass 37, Cole 36 in that time with latepicks . All look to be afl quality
The only early picks we have had are Gaff 4 Sheed and Duggan at 11 whichwe have nailed imo
We have had a few misses but so has every other club
People expect draftees to come in and have an instant impact but unless you have high picks you are going to get players needing development either physically or skill wise .
We have also traded in hill wellingham cripps yeo Ellis redden jetta and Giles with most best 22 or good depth
We have a very well balanced list with a great age profile .
We just need another hard contested mid to come into the 22 .
Sheed , Nelson even Duggan may be the answer and time is on their side .
 

Mickey Rae

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#53
I believe we should make a play for Lachy Neale. He is having his best year at a time when the lavender's midfield has been decimated and roving to substandard rucks in the absence of Sandilands. Definitely says something about his ability. He is currently in AA form and is a FA (restricted?) at season's end.
I know he's not the big bodied midfielder everyone reckons we are lacking but he would go even better at the feet of Nic and Lycett.
 

Jiggyman

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#54
Redden will come good. Lifted in that 4th quarter fightback on Sunday. Showing glimpses every week of something we don't have, and a full pre-season will allow him to position at more stoppages, extract and link up ala Rosa (I think we've underestimated his loss) with a better kick, vision & clean hands (not ruling out improvement this year, though!).

Jetta is concerning, but when it clicks, it'll click. If we do pick him, this weekend is a huge opportunity to perform against a solid side at home and repay some faith.

Not concerned with our drafting: we've recruited mature, ready-made depth players such as Hutchings & Ellis to fill gaps in our list, so it's not surprising and actually makes a lot of sense that we've been picking skinny kids who will take a bit of time to develop. It's rarely a good idea to throw a 19 year old to the wolves (and yet the composure shown by Nelson, Duggan & Cole in their senior opportunities is very exciting).

In addition, I feel as though the 2s is going through some kind of transition under Graham. Players like Colledge were finding big numbers over the last season or so playing consistent roles - that seems to have evaporated along with the whole team's form as we try new things. Can't underestimate the physical advantage that a mature WAFL side has over a bunch of 20 year olds. Now Bennell, that's a weird one, maybe he just isn't that good?

WCE's coaching and development is more professional than ever; we are so lucky to have Simpson steering the ship. We're building for sustained success and an ongoing development culture like that at Hawthorn, where one can be up the ladder and give draftees the time to develop flexibility in multiple roles.

We're not that far off...
 

Miguel Sanchez

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#55
I believe we should make a play for Lachy Neale. He is having his best year at a time when the lavender's midfield has been decimated and roving to substandard rucks in the absence of Sandilands. Definitely says something about his ability. He is currently in AA form and is a FA (restricted?) at season's end.
I know he's not the big bodied midfielder everyone reckons we are lacking but he would go even better at the feet of Nic and Lycett.
He's way too young to be an FA. Definitely worth looking at though
 

SpaceClef

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#60
Our age profile is quite good. Only Priddis, Butler and Lecras in the 30 year old bracket. Plenty in the 25-30 so its not this year or nothing.
Kennedy will turn 30 before the finals series next year. Priddis will already be 32 by that stage.

Kennedy and Priddis are two of our top five most important players - with our history of players' performance after age 30, we need to capitalise asap.

Luckily it no longer seems as though the rest of the guys drafted in 2003-2006 are as critical to our success as they seemed to be not long ago (Le Cras, Mackenzie, Schofield, Butler), but Kennedy is a critical one IMO.
 

SpaceClef

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#61
Since 2006 only 4 clubs have won a flag in an era dominated firstly by Geelong and then hawthorn. Sydney have done well during this period to remain a force. Other clubs have had one or two year cameos as challengers whilst clubs (plus the expansion teams) haven't made the last day.

It's hard to build a group that can contend at the best of times but in the expansion period it's been immeasurably harder

Geelongs success came before expansion as did Collingwood and st kildas time.

Hawthorn have been the club that arguably has benefitted most from expansion. The 2008 side won a flag earlier than expected built on some astute drafting and trading plus a period down the foot of the ladder. Their collective inexperience saw them struggle in the following years a little but they still had a good strong core group that their 2011-15 success was built on.

Expansion did two things coupled with Free Agency. It meant that experienced players looking for success could choose a strong club and some chose hawthorn as well as younger players like Gunston. They became an attractive destination club and didn't have to bother with the complications of trading to get quality in

At the same time would be challengers trying to build lists were denied access to talent by the expansion sides mortgage over high draft picks. Go back over some of those 2010-12 drafts and see who we might have been able to get and plug them into our side now

For their part Sydney gave nothing but cash under an inflated salary cap to get Tippett and Franklin plus the academy has already given them Heeney and mills well below their true draft position

No doubt our recruiters could have done better but given what they've had to work with their performance has been reasonable

Attracting quality players to WA is also problematic and shouldn't be discounted when suggesting we should be going after stars at other clubs - Omeara for example reportedly wants to go to Victoria rather than return to WA.
I agree with most of this, but I really disagree about this idea that Hawthorn and Sydney are only good because of free agency and academy picks.

After the 2014 grand final I posted this list of late draft and rookie picks taken by both Hawthorn and Sydney, all of which had contributed strongly to their sides' success that year (ok so Bird not so much):

K Jack (Rookie)
L Breust (Rookie)
W Langford (Rookie)
B Lloyd (Rookie)
B McGlynn (Rookie)
M Suckling (Rookie)
T Duryea (#69)
P Puopolo (#66)
C Bird (#59)
L Parker (#40)
L Shiels (#34)
B Hill (#33)
D Hannebery (#30)

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...k-11-2014-draft.1082772/page-14#post-36281271
 

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Miguel Sanchez

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#64
I agree with most of this, but I really disagree about this idea that Hawthorn and Sydney are only good because of free agency and academy picks.

After the 2014 grand final I posted this list of late draft and rookie picks taken by both Hawthorn and Sydney, all of which had contributed strongly to their sides' success that year (ok so Bird not so much):

K Jack (Rookie)
L Breust (Rookie)
W Langford (Rookie)
B Lloyd (Rookie)
B McGlynn (Rookie)
M Suckling (Rookie)
T Duryea (#69)
P Puopolo (#66)
C Bird (#59)
L Parker (#40)
L Shiels (#34)
B Hill (#33)
D Hannebery (#30)

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...k-11-2014-draft.1082772/page-14#post-36281271
There's some good gets in there, but half the guys you've listed were NSW scholarship or zone selections. And leave McGlynn out, he was a rookie pick initially by Hawthorn but didn't have much hand in their success - missed the 2008 flag and was traded to Sydney in 09.
 

Belltower

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#65
Lecras 37
Mckenzie 29
Priddis rookie
McGovern rookie
Sinclair rookie
Hutchings 50+
Schofield 50

We also used 40+picks on cripps and hill

I think we made the gf with these players last year if I am not mistaken. Sydney have some gun midfielders with those picks but a brownlow medallist and an all Australian and a player who should have been AA (Ezy) is not too shabby

On here every one is always whinging that we pick vanilla (duggan,gaff)but the times we have sort of gone boom and bust people whinge about that too (ie. Lamb, weedon).

How some of those players slipped is beyond me, Luke parker was touted as top 20 slipped to 40 and he is a gun. Every club had the chance to pick him including Sydney who picked jed lamb first. we had a great draft that year but parker could have been handy
 

KO_KO

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#67
Herald Scum paywall, can you quote the article for us plebs please??
Roos hope to reunite Swallow brothers
NORTH Melbourne captain Andrew Swallow appears on a path to line up alongside brother David next season with the injured Gold Coast midfielder’s future unclear. The Suns’ only No. 1 draft pick has played just two of the past 31 matches and is.......

Basically says they want to play together and David is looking for a club to fix his knee
 

SpaceClef

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#68
There's some good gets in there, but half the guys you've listed were NSW scholarship or zone selections. And leave McGlynn out, he was a rookie pick initially by Hawthorn but didn't have much hand in their success - missed the 2008 flag and was traded to Sydney in 09.
I think my original post (where this list comes from) was to indicate that a player didn't have to be a high draft pick to end up being a good player in a GF, hence I included McGlynn.

I didn't realise about the scholarship/zones though - can you point out who that applies to?
 

Miguel Sanchez

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#69
I think my original post (where this list comes from) was to indicate that a player didn't have to be a high draft pick to end up being a good player in a GF, hence I included McGlynn.

I didn't realise about the scholarship/zones though - can you point out who that applies to?
Fair enough. Breust, Langford, Suckling (I think) and Bird were all scholarship selections. Jack was a zone selection, there was a suggestion a little while ago that Sydney had bent the rules to get him in the rookie draft when he hadn't nominated for the ND. (Half was an overstatement :eek:)
 

WCErevival

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#70
Kennedy will turn 30 before the finals series next year. Priddis will already be 32 by that stage.

Kennedy and Priddis are two of our top five most important players - with our history of players' performance after age 30, we need to capitalise asap.

Luckily it no longer seems as though the rest of the guys drafted in 2003-2006 are as critical to our success as they seemed to be not long ago (Le Cras, Mackenzie, Schofield, Butler), but Kennedy is a critical one IMO.
True about Kennedy but you would think he could go to at least 32. He's not a bulky forward that will slow down heaps. Cox and Glass went to 33.
 

Eastern Rangers

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#71
Colledge and Bennell playing reserves is concerning because of their ages.

Guys in red should be out the door at the end of this year.

Underlined guys we could lose at any moment and id not worry to much about.

The Old
Priddis -31 (Elite inside midfielder, durable but ageing) .
Butler -30 (Not elite, but solid contributor. Injuries stay away he can play for years).
Lecras -30 (Got to question his year and his future based on that year).

Kennedy -29 (Elite, in career best form).
Hurn -29 (Elite, been durable for some time).

The Bad
Giles -28 (Not that good but is there to save other players from Rucking in the worst case scenario).
Bennell - 26 (Too old to be dropped to WAFL reserves).

McGinnity -27 (Spud and an aged one).
Lucas* -25 (outside midfielder with limited diposal skills).
Colledge* -22 (Not good enough mid or forward at AFL).
Karpany - 21 (Hasn't come on since year one).


The Injured
Ellis -28 (Good depth player, injuries mean he's not reliable part of the teams structure).
Mackenzie -28 (Elite at his best, if he can find it).
Tunbridge* -23 (Has some ability, but too injury prone to show it).
Cavka -20 (Retiring).
Waterman* -20 (Glandular fever/ chronic fatigue).

The Good: Elite or good role players
Wellingham -28 (Good role player).
Hill -27 (Career best form, growing versatility).
Schofield -27 (Edge of 22, good depth player).
Naitanui -26 (Elite Ruck, durability concerns)
Shuey -26 (A grade midfielder, still improving).
Sheppard -25 (high quality medium defender).
Darling -24 (Quality KPF, elite forward).
Gaff -24 (Elite outside midfielder).
Lycett -24 (Near elite Ruck).
McGovern -24 (Elite KPP).
Cripps -24 (Versatile small).
Yeo -23 (Best utility, clear room for improvement).
Sheed -21 (Best inside midfielder coming through, injuries are concerning though, might require change in role).
Barrass -21 (Highly regarded KPP who's opportunities start soon).
Nelson -20 (Production is there early in his career, bankable long term performer).
Duggan -20 (Quality player, what his peak performance is unknown).
Cole -19 (First year shown class).

Others: Depth and yet to be seen due to experience and arrival at club.

Brown - 28 (depth player, injury prone, aging; free agent).
Masten - 27 (flat footed outside midfielder but on a long term contract).

Jetta -27 (Divides opinions but for me he's not best 22 now, then when is he a lock?).
Redden -26 (C/B grade, playing below his best, needs to lift).
Hutchings -25 (Depth player, not yet contracted for 2017).
Adamson* -24 (Still developing but has question makes on him).
McInnes -23 (Depth player at best. contracted until the end of 2017).
Brophy* -22 (Still developing but has question makes on him).



The Young

Lamb -20 (Young, developing, has currency if either party seeks trade).
Partington -19 (Shown enough so far).
Mutimer -19 (Late start, showing signs of quality).
Snadden* -19 (Shown enough so far).
Allen -19 (I'm skeptical but he's got an extension).

Either find elite younger players in the age bracket of 20-25 or go to the draft. (Not mid tier types like Hill/Wellingham/ Jetta/ Redden) and if they've had injuries then they need to be even more highly rated and come at discount prices.
 

SpaceClef

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#72
Fair enough. Breust, Langford, Suckling (I think) and Bird were all scholarship selections. Jack was a zone selection, there was a suggestion a little while ago that Sydney had bent the rules to get him in the rookie draft when he hadn't nominated for the ND. (Half was an overstatement :eek:)
Didn't realise Breust was scholarship selection, because I hadn't seen that mentioned anywhere. Google doesn't bring up anything

According to a couple of Hawks posters he wasn't a scholarship pick, but who knows:
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...reust-mega-thread.834224/page-5#post-32965901

Anyway, main point is that Hawthorn and Sydney's success hasn't been built simply by free agency or the academy, but by having strong depth thanks to good late/rookie drafting. Not that WC haven't had any success late in drafts, but IMO we haven't turned the list over enough to exploit these picks enough
 

Shmiddy15

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#73
Didn't realise Breust was scholarship selection, because I hadn't seen that mentioned anywhere. Google doesn't bring up anything

According to a couple of Hawks posters he wasn't a scholarship pick, but who knows:
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...reust-mega-thread.834224/page-5#post-32965901

Anyway, main point is that Hawthorn and Sydney's success hasn't been built simply by free agency or the academy, but by having strong depth thanks to good late/rookie drafting. Not that WC haven't had any success late in drafts, but IMO we haven't turned the list over enough to exploit these picks enough
That's the main problem imo. A player like the badge surviving on our list for so long doesn't reflect overly well on the club.
 

matt_bas

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#74
Cole looking 'fantastic' is a bit of an indictment on where we're at really.

I mean thanks to a couple of 20+ touch games in the WAFL some people on this board are touting Nelson as our next inside mid saviour, despite showing little more than workmanlike poise and skill as a small defender at AFL level. Let alone a premier midfielder.

Cole looks solid but far from a sure thing at this stage, but we have thought similar things about a few blokes over the last 6 or 7 years, and most of them have been delisted.

Really, the only players who have been brought in by us in that time where I have thought "shit, this kid is our future star" are Shuey, McGovern and Naitanui.

The next rung down have been Gaff, Duggan, Darling - where you can tell they are quality but not at the same superstar level. Maybe Sheed scrapes into this category.

The rest are those we have let ourselves become conditioned into being satisfied with or excited by despite not showing much more than average standard and consistency.

That's a pretty eeyore perspective on things but **** it - I reckon we have missed the boat unless we can absolutely nail the draft this year and somehow pick up a Bontempelli or P Cripps beast that can impact from day one.
Your talking about All Australian Gaff? Hes a star mate
 

Godfather32

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#75
Ah, well that's slightly more believable! :p

I think even Shep would acknowledge we should have taken Fyfe over him in hindsight.

My biggest regret from that draft, and probably from the last decade of drafting actually, is the club selecting Weedon and Stevens over Duncan, a local boy who was under consideration at those picks. That's the one that really hurts.
What were we thinking? Did Weedon even project to be any good?
 
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