Red Cards in Footy

peternorth

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This is the million dollar question. Will it be good for the game? I feel that too many changes take place in football as knee jerk reactions as a result of one incident. I doubt they'd even be discussing send offs if the Gaff incident never occurred.

And when these "knee jerk" reactions are implemented, they often lead to problems that are more far reaching than the problem they were brought in to solve.

I would think for a player to sent off, it would be for a serious incident, often resulting in a player being taken to hospital, or at very least, not able to take the field for the remainder of the match. So, is it a big enough penalty for the offending team to be down to a bench of 3, when the other team is as well?


My initial objection was if it were left to the umpires to decide if a player should be sent off. I would be more at ease if the incident was reviewed by an independent panel off the ground, subject to firm and inflexible guidelines, and then relay a message to an officiating umpire to remove the player. I would then also prefer that independent panel to be responsible for the number of games the player will serve as suspension.

I think nothing would be cruddier than a player being sent off and then being cleared by the MRP afterwards.
Well in football, at least EPL, I believe a red card = 1 match ban.

I dont know about a panel making the decision. They are removed from the feel of the game. leave it with the umpires, they are adjudicating teh game live and in real time. if we introduce panels i guess former players would like it cause it means more jobs for the boys. or girls.

in reply to bolded, yes if its 3 on bench for both teams it serves no penalty really. For mine, red card = man down for the game. No ifs or buts. The moment you start going "oh, look johnny didnt mean it, so maybe just 15 mins sin bin". No, all or nothing for mine. I know the afl like to talk about fairness and equalisation etc, but at some stage you gotta say **** it.
 

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Adelaide Hawk

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Well in football, at least EPL, I believe a red card = 1 match ban.

I dont know about a panel making the decision. They are removed from the feel of the game. leave it with the umpires, they are adjudicating teh game live and in real time. if we introduce panels i guess former players would like it cause it means more jobs for the boys. or girls.

in reply to bolded, yes if its 3 on bench for both teams it serves no penalty really. For mine, red card = man down for the game. No ifs or buts. The moment you start going "oh, look johnny didnt mean it, so maybe just 15 mins sin bin". No, all or nothing for mine. I know the afl like to talk about fairness and equalisation etc, but at some stage you gotta say **** it.
Will never agree with leaving it up to umpires. They have enough problems with obvious holding the ball decisions and missing throws. Making that kind of decision without the benefit of hindsight and video replays is out of their league, and would be asking for trouble. I don't want to listen to windbag commentators going on and on about whether an umpire should have sent a player off. Also, what do we do about behind the play incidents where umpires haven't picked them up?

When you're talking EPL, you're talking about a game where tackling players is against the rules. In AFL, it's a necessary part of the game preached by coaches. EPL doesn't have the millions of interpretations and grey areas AFL has.
 

JackFlash

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A Red card system in AFL football will be an unmitigated disaster. How and who will adjudicate it? Would you Red card Jeremy Cameron? His effort was crude, but he was contesting for the ball. You cannot send blokes off the field for contesting the ball. The AFL might have restrictions on what is a Red card and what is not, but believe me when i say it won't be long before it will turn into any body contact gone wrong and finally end up with abuse! It will turn into a farce very quickly.
They must make it perfectly clear that Red Cards are for "King Hits" only. If they send players off for a jumper punch you will see fans jumping the fence!!!
 

peternorth

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Will never agree with leaving it up to umpires. They have enough problems with obvious holding the ball decisions and missing throws. Making that kind of decision without the benefit of hindsight and video replays is out of their league, and would be asking for trouble. I don't want to listen to windbag commentators going on and on about whether an umpire should have sent a player off. Also, what do we do about behind the play incidents where umpires haven't picked them up?

When you're talking EPL, you're talking about a game where tackling players is against the rules. In AFL, it's a necessary part of the game preached by coaches. EPL doesn't have the millions of interpretations and grey areas AFL has.
i agree with the interpretations and grey areas in AFL. And that umpires have a tough time as it is with the rules etc.

Introducing a red card would definitely create more traffic on the airwaves and papers etc. It's what the afl want in this crowded market....code wars!

In terms of behind the play, i think that's where boundary umps come into play. In football you have two linesmen who flag down incidents. So yeah in australian football league footy boundary umps can help.

OK, if you dont want umps involved, then they can go to the 4th umpire. then you hope there's vision all over teh ground, and in HD. not the shit we have atm with goal line tech which looks like its filmed by vibrator.

Pretty sure tackling is permitted in not only the EPL, but other and in fact all football leagues across the globe.
 

projectv

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As long as it's applied properly I see no problem with it.

Jeremy Camerons hit = easy red card decision
Gaff punch = easy red card decision

Save it only for the extreme, impossible to get wrong circumstances.
 

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didaksrightfoot

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No it dosen't. No red cards ever for in play incidents.
I agree strongly with this - but I think the AFL is going to do it more broadly.

IMO - the only incidents that should be considered are clear punches away from the ball.
Most of the other ones that have caused a massive outcry (high contact bumps, head contact in a marking contest, or Toby Green's boot x 3) are all forseeable actions from an actual football play that may be mistimed, misdirected, or just poorly executed. I would hate for a player to be sent off for something like that.

The Gaff punch - yes that should be clear. But how often does something like that occur? Once a year at the most. (I remember 3 of that magnitude in the last 10 years).
Is that really a high enough frequency to add a whole new punishment system?
And is it worth the risk of having players sent off incorrectly?
 
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Don't think we should be leaving another (massive) decision for umpires discretion, however if a player is no longer able to play because of an injury sustained in careless/illegal contact, the opposition team should be allowed to play a substitute or 'emergency' player. Why should the team be down a rotation for something that wasn't their fault?
 

D-N-R

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The problems a red card system might introduce are evident on this page of the thread. Gaff would be a no-brainer, but I would also think that Cameron's crude elbow would be an automatic red too. Others disagree as they see this as an attack on the football or something. This is where the grey areas lie.

A bump on a player bending over for the football could be seen as either an unfortunate incident to a deliberate attempt to injure someone, depending on how a player goes for the ball, what the circumstances are, how crude the bump is, et cetera.

The Gaff punch - yes that should be clear. But how often does something like that occur? Once a year at the most. (I remember 3 of that magnitude in the last 10 years).
Is that really a high enough frequency to add a whole new punishment system?
I agree. The players are really well behaved considering there isn't a send off rule, IMO.

The goal review system was brought in after a poster in a GF that was clearly missed by the umpire. The argument at the time was that these incidents were rare and the umpires would only be using this system a few times a year. Fast forward and they use it 2 or 3 times a bloody game - and it's a shit-show.
 
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No it dosen't. No red cards ever for in play incidents.
"In play"is a loose term. The football may have been in close proximity to him, but it never has been and never will be part of the play to deliberately raise your elbow and crunch another player in the back of the head with it. Was not incidental to the play or a simple case of poor timing or clumsiness, was a deliberate act of thuggery.
 
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Tex9798

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"In play"is a loose term. The football may have been in close proximity to him, but it never has been and never will be part of the play to deliberately raise your elbow and crunch another player in the back of the head with it. Was not incidental to the play or a simple case of poor timing or clumsiness, was a deliberate act of thuggery.
Back of the head? His forearm connected with his chin.

I would not support red cards let alone for Cameron.

It is a reasonable argument that he was initially trying to spoil, he looked away, he didn't just wind up and whack him.

Red cards are a stupid idea in reaction to what, maybe 3 incidents in 10-12 years?
 
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Back of the head? His forearm connected with his chin.

I would not support red cards let alone for Cameron.

It is a reasonable argument that he was initially trying to spoil, he looked away, he didn't just wind up and whack him.

Red cards are a stupid idea in reaction to what, maybe 3 incidents in 10-12 years?
I stand corrected on the chin vs back of head. Been a while since I saw the incident. Not buying it for one second that it was incidental to the spoil though. He jumps with his arm straight out and fully extended to try and make the spoil, when he realises hes been beaten to the ball he pulls it back and lifts an elbow instead.

My support for red cards actually comes from the Gaff/Brayshaw incident though. In the aftermath of it, the match turned into an absolute circus with Dockers players going for revenge hits every 30 seconds. The umpires became very panicked and flustered and paid a series of unnecessary 50m penalties, downfield frees and reversals as they desperately tried to regain control of the game. Completely ruined what had been a decent game until that point. Having the option to send Gaff down the tunnel for the day would have gone a long way to helping them keep control.
 

Man0gwaR74

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The professionalism of the sport demands Red Cards coz teams will be planning hits on 'in form' players if they are not brought into the game! There was at least one suspension last season that lasted as long as the injury sustained from the head high hit that forced the player out of the game and also couldn't play and was rested the following week coz of the concussion sustained from the same hit, which means that the victim was penalized more than the offender!
 
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Man0gwaR74

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Because that's clearly something that has been a consistent problem for the last 120 years of the game?
You fail to recognize the professionalism part of my post! The demands of the sport at this level have never been this extreme compared to the past and is a reflection of the money that is now involved innit also!
 

Man0gwaR74

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Back of the head? His forearm connected with his chin.
I would not support red cards let alone for Cameron.
It is a reasonable argument that he was initially trying to spoil, he looked away, he didn't just wind up and whack him.
It's also a reasonable argument that Cameron would have pulled out of it before it come to that had he known that he might be red carded coz it was all about the commitment to the contest regardless of the damage that he may inflict and it was clear that he was late to the contest so he should have eased up!
 
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