Opinion Redden can't keep his feet, WC can't integrate players well

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Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 16, 2007
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The two aren't related, but I feel it's a sore spot. WC seem to be slipping in the player development department.

Neither our of our new recruits, seem to be adjusting well. I would also stretch this to include Wellingham and even Cripps when they first got to the side.

Both are great contributors now, but we seem to take a long time to develop players, especially traded players, to become consistent performers.

Having said that, if and when they do make it, like Hill, Cripps and Wellingham, they become solid recruits.

So, to focus in on Redden, he seems to have lost his game sense. Once an accumulator with solid endurance, it was more his ability to read the play and get to contests, winning the ball or more likely being first in a chain feeding to runners at a stoppage. Likewise his short runs to space and marking to then handball.

Solid, neat, an accumulator with a good mark, but medium damage. At the moment he reminds me of a softer Kobe Stevens (former). Low endurance, looks lost as a HF, not hitting the contests as hard as he could when around the ball and making poor decisions.

Part of it is injury. I think part is poor development, he just hasn't jelled well, or players aren't directing him onfield in the same way at WC. The same could be said about Jetta, not following up often enough to collect, but when he does, I have seen him ignored a lot for poorer options.

Is this a lack of communication. Are the players to cliquish, or is it poor coaching?

Whatever it is, both the confusion, low output and lack of leadership by staff and team to make them part of the play is feeding into their poor form.

My hope though is it is temporary and like other recruits, over time they will become part of a cohesive unit.

In fact the same could even be said for McKenzie, who just seems overwhelmed by the gameplan. Either way, onfield leadership needs to improve and the coaches need to sort themselves out and better integrate players.

Finally, first point last, whilst I don't blame Jetta or Redden for not impacting straight away, I am puzzled as to why Redden can't keep his feet. Slips over constantly and it often hurts the side. I would rather have 12 disposals from Jetta who at least hurts the opposition, than 9 from Redden with the odd turnover. Give him a run in the WAFL. Jetta will play the same way at any level, not a guy who benefits from being dumped, but Redden at least can build his game at the lower level. WC need to start managing their players right.
 
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They did already drop Redden and he was too good for WAFL. I dont think he was great today but I think he has been harshly singled out. He was our 3rd highest contested player and ended up with more possessions than a few of the other mids.
 

bunkyboy

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The two aren't related, but I feel it's a sore spot. WC seem to be slipping in the player development department.

Neither our of our new recruits, seem to be adjusting well. I would also stretch this to include Wellingham and even Cripps when they first got to the side.

Both are great contributors now, but we seem to take a long time to develop players, especially traded players, to become consistent performers.

Having said that, if and when they do make it, like Hill, Cripps and Wellingham, they become solid recruits.

So, to focus in on Redden, he seems to have lost his game sense. Once an accumulator with solid endurance, it was more his ability to read the play and get to contests, winning the ball or more likely being first in a chain feeding to runners at a stoppage. Likewise his short runs to space and marking to then handball.

Solid, neat, an accumulator with a good mark, but medium damage. At the moment he reminds me of a softer Kobe Stevens (former). Low endurance, looks lost as a HF, not hitting the contests as hard as he could when around the ball and making poor decisions.

Part of it is injury. I think part is poor development, he just hasn't jelled well, or players aren't directing him onfield in the same way at WC. The same could be said about Jetta, not following up often enough to collect, but when he does, I have seen him ignored a lot for poorer options.

Is this a lack of communication. Are the players to cliquish, or is it poor coaching?

Whatever it is, both the confusion, low output and lack of leadership by staff and team to make them part of the play is feeding into their poor form.

My hope though is it is temporary and like other recruits, over time they will become part of a cohesive unit.

In fact the same could even be said for McKenzie, who just seems overwhelmed by the gameplan. Either way, onfield leadership needs to improve and the coaches need to sort themselves out and better integrate players.

Finally, first point last, whilst I don't blame Jetta or Redden for not impacting straight away, I am puzzled as to why Redden can't keep his feet. Slips over constantly and it often hurts the side. I would rather have 12 disposals from Jetta who at least hurts the opposition, than 9 from Redden with the odd turnover. Give him a run in the WAFL. Jetta will play the same way at any level, not a guy who benefits from being dumped, but Redden at least can build his game at the lower level. WC need to start managing their players right.


Great post.

There is something weird going on with the club this year and with the way our recruits are assimilated into the side. The coaches seem to be at sixes and sevens about what to do with them.

I think Simmo is second guessing himself a lot and I'm not sure he is getting the best advice.
 

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Play by Numbers

Norm Smith Medallist
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They did already drop Redden and he was too good for WAFL. I dont think he was great today but I think he has been harshly singled out. He was our 3rd highest contested player and ended up with more possessions than a few of the other mids.
Was he too good for the WAFL?

Certainly not been good enough at AFL level.

It's good that he played more to his strengths, but honestly, his possesions often hurt the side because he makes slow and poor decisions. This to me indicates low confidence and being lost amongst the gameplan. If the club can't provide better direction at training or at a match, then at least allow him to build at the lower level.

Jettas problems are different, I think guys like Masten, need an absolute roast. Too many try to do too much, burn players and stuff up. Masten and Darling are the worst for this, but it's not surprising Jetta isn't running the overlap well, when players aren't demanding him to, or using him when available.

I think his problem is more easily fixed, but constantly dropping him shows low awareness, or unwillingness for the coaches and players to share some leadership. It is a copout and compounds his lack of effort.
 

Play by Numbers

Norm Smith Medallist
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Great post.

There is something weird going on with the club this year and with the way our recruits are assimilated into the side. The coaches seem to be at sixes and sevens about what to do with them.

I think Simmo is second guessing himself a lot and I'm not sure he is getting the best advice.
My guess is Simmos a great coach, but he needs some more experience and leadership in the team and staff. Pyke was a big loss and whilst I reckon Cox is a great rucking coach, just look at how quickly the ruck has adapted to no NN, I don't reckon he is quite ready for the broader role.

They need someone with some serious midfield experience who can communicate well and teach the players the gameplan and they need onfield leaders not just in the backline, but barking orders at stopages and acting as assistants on the ground.

You watch Hodge and Mitchell and its like watching coaches at training, directing and teaching players. If we can't get a coach like Pyke, maybe like Hawthorn we need to hunt a mature head, who can stand up and also educate.
 

SpaceClef

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Our on field talk seems way down on last year.
Was massively apparent to me last weekend from the sidelines.

Everyone seemed to avoid eye contact, let alone have on field talk.

There seems to be some big problems with our leadership. We all hoped that losing the GF would improve all of these things but it's just gotten worse over the summer
 

SpaceClef

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The two aren't related, but I feel it's a sore spot. WC seem to be slipping in the player development department.

Neither our of our new recruits, seem to be adjusting well. I would also stretch this to include Wellingham and even Cripps when they first got to the side.

Both are great contributors now, but we seem to take a long time to develop players, especially traded players, to become consistent performers.

Having said that, if and when they do make it, like Hill, Cripps and Wellingham, they become solid recruits.

So, to focus in on Redden, he seems to have lost his game sense. Once an accumulator with solid endurance, it was more his ability to read the play and get to contests, winning the ball or more likely being first in a chain feeding to runners at a stoppage. Likewise his short runs to space and marking to then handball.

Solid, neat, an accumulator with a good mark, but medium damage. At the moment he reminds me of a softer Kobe Stevens (former). Low endurance, looks lost as a HF, not hitting the contests as hard as he could when around the ball and making poor decisions.

Part of it is injury. I think part is poor development, he just hasn't jelled well, or players aren't directing him onfield in the same way at WC. The same could be said about Jetta, not following up often enough to collect, but when he does, I have seen him ignored a lot for poorer options.

Is this a lack of communication. Are the players to cliquish, or is it poor coaching?

Whatever it is, both the confusion, low output and lack of leadership by staff and team to make them part of the play is feeding into their poor form.

My hope though is it is temporary and like other recruits, over time they will become part of a cohesive unit.

In fact the same could even be said for McKenzie, who just seems overwhelmed by the gameplan. Either way, onfield leadership needs to improve and the coaches need to sort themselves out and better integrate players.

Finally, first point last, whilst I don't blame Jetta or Redden for not impacting straight away, I am puzzled as to why Redden can't keep his feet. Slips over constantly and it often hurts the side. I would rather have 12 disposals from Jetta who at least hurts the opposition, than 9 from Redden with the odd turnover. Give him a run in the WAFL. Jetta will play the same way at any level, not a guy who benefits from being dumped, but Redden at least can build his game at the lower level. WC need to start managing their players right.
Summed up lots of my thoughts perfectly.
 
Lowest handball count in the league speaks to an unwillingness to run and carry, which I think is manifested in a lack of trust and support at the moment. As others have mentioned, self sacrificial acts of blocking and shepherding are very low this year.

That creates a negative loop of so many of our players not getting much of the ball. Every week we have a handful of mods getting 15 or fewer touches, that's appalling. And that I think further erodes confidence in their own ability and the gameplan.

The premiership is in no way out of reach, because we havrnt really been hurt in our poor performances by dropping games like some other top 8 teams have. But our best form seems far away. I thought we may have turned the corner after the North game, but we look worse unfortunately.
 

SpaceClef

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Looks like there is zero teamwork out there. No blocking, shepherding - woeful - looks like there are guys in that team that dont like each other
You don't see exactly anyone arguing either...

It's just like this all-pervasive passiveness.

I feel like the players themselves have realised they're actually just not very good and just wish things would click like they did last year. So they're stuck in this limbo of not really rebuilding, not really contending... i dunno, I've had too many stouts
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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I saw Yeo talking to his teammates/barking out a lot on TV.
I like Yeo as a player. He is agressive, athletic, but needs better fitness and tries to do too much. Good that he is communicating, but why isn't he impacting the game as previous.

Maybe they need to simplify his role.
 

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Lowest handball count in the league speaks to an unwillingness to run and carry, which I think is manifested in a lack of trust and support at the moment. As others have mentioned, self sacrificial acts of blocking and shepherding are very low this year.

That creates a negative loop of so many of our players not getting much of the ball. Every week we have a handful of mods getting 15 or fewer touches, that's appalling. And that I think further erodes confidence in their own ability and the gameplan.

The premiership is in no way out of reach, because we havrnt really been hurt in our poor performances by dropping games like some other top 8 teams have. But our best form seems far away. I thought we may have turned the corner after the North game, but we look worse unfortunately.


I can't be bothered checking, but does anyone know how this compares to our play last season?
 

SpaceClef

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I can't be bothered checking, but does anyone know how this compares to our play last season?
2015 - Average handballs per game
Home: 171
Away: 159

2016 - Average handballs per game
Home: 150
Away: 146
 

SpaceClef

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One good sign is that we are averaging almost 20 more tackles in our away matches this season. Might not mean much though
 

wraglesweb

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I feel we don't have enough elusive player's on our list

In the last quater when cripps got up the field made a big difference he made space dodged a few tacklers and got the ball moving

The amount of times we just couldn't lay a tackle because Melbourne player's would do a little shimmy etc was frightening and very frustrating.
 
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I think its been said somewhere else but you can't play Priddis and Redden in the same team. They are almost identical players expect Priddis gets more of the ball and Redden has a slightly better kick. They are both poor in their defensive running ability and speed across the ground. They are very one dimensional players which kills you in the modern game. We need just one Priddis and 3 more Shueys to break games apart. He needs play at EP the rest of they year to find fitness, form and confidence because at the moment he is a massive liability.
 

swooshacummings

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Short off acquisition in offseason of high calibre mids such as one of O'meara or P.Cripps this team will struggle handsomely.

Need to man up as a club and make serious offers to gun young WA mids not mediocre or above average types. We need guns in this midfield.
 

swooshacummings

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I
I think its been said somewhere else but you can't play Priddis and Redden in the same team. They are almost identical players expect Priddis gets more of the ball and Redden has a slightly better kick. They are both poor in their defensive running ability and speed across the ground. They are very one dimensional players which kills you in the modern game. We need just one Priddis and 3 more Shueys to break games apart. He needs play at EP the rest of they year to find fitness, form and confidence because at the moment he is a massive liability.

I think even Hutchings has been more valuable this season than Redden.

We need to stop recruiting players on reputation such as 2012 Jetta or drafted at pick no.4 Cale Morton and one good season Redden.

Go elite or dont waste early draft picks
 

Trav22

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Great post.

There is something weird going on with the club this year and with the way our recruits are assimilated into the side. The coaches seem to be at sixes and sevens about what to do with them.

I think Simmo is second guessing himself a lot and I'm not sure he is getting the best advice.

I have been saying it all year mate, the coaching staff is very inexperienced!
I really think we need to pick up a senior assistant coach to assist simmo!
Not saying he's a bad coach, can just make some inexperienced calls some time
And could benefit from say a mick malt house or some one similar looking over his shoulder!
 

TOA.

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Lowest handball count in the league speaks to an unwillingness to run and carry, which I think is manifested in a lack of trust and support at the moment. As others have mentioned, self sacrificial acts of blocking and shepherding are very low this year.

That creates a negative loop of so many of our players not getting much of the ball. Every week we have a handful of mods getting 15 or fewer touches, that's appalling. And that I think further erodes confidence in their own ability and the gameplan.

The premiership is in no way out of reach, because we havrnt really been hurt in our poor performances by dropping games like some other top 8 teams have. But our best form seems far away. I thought we may have turned the corner after the North game, but we look worse unfortunately.

Agree with this, I watched Jetta quite closely during his last home game. He got burned so many times it was ridiculous - I actually felt sorry for him. He is a very good kick, it should be a no brainer that 80% of the side give it to him to kick rather than kick it themselves. That is what the good sides do, get the ball in the hands of the better kicks.

Its like most of our list want to be the players making the play rather than sharing the ball around for the best of the team.

I also think we learn bad habits when leading comfortably at home and invariably this backfires if we play a good side or when a lesser side 'turns up'.
 

swooshacummings

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Great post.

There is something weird going on with the club this year and with the way our recruits are assimilated into the side. The coaches seem to be at sixes and sevens about what to do with them.

I think Simmo is second guessing himself a lot and I'm not sure he is getting the best advice.


Boys club, get in line.....
 

ioppolo

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Redden I'd assume will take over Priddis' role when he retires. Jetta needs to have a whole wing to himself, and for players to not burn him in favour of the long bomb inside 50.

Masten needs to go, he's extremely pasty, Irish vanilla. Hutch is better value.

I'm torn on the whole EMac, Shoey, Barrass and McLovin situation. I'd love the latter 3 to all play defense and Jeremiah to go forward, but he's constantly saving our sorry asses down there. If Emac can get back to 2014 form and Barrass develops nicely, Shoey and do the whole run and carry out of defence he used to do so well.

Lecras is well and truly finished, and next season will be a dirty one for him. Not sure who replaces him though. Karps better pull his finger out.
 

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