Redo the 2004 Draft

[liz]

Re: 2004 Draft Re-Done

Well he is not at the moment and has alot of work to do this season to work his way into No.2

Huge amount, given that he would have to overtake Roughhead, who I reckon is clearly the second best from that draft so far. Even if elevated himself to a similar level of effectiveness as Roughhead, Roughhead would still be more valuable because very good talls are much harder to find that very good mids.

 

[Blueboys7]

Re: 2004 Draft Re-Done

griffen number 2 for sure.. wait till this season

After that he's off to the GC along with Cooney.

 

[qldbluesman_43]

Re: 2004 Draft Re-Done

lids would still be number 1
franklin is hot/cold he has had 1 good year
lids back to back bf at club can turn a game
roughy is becoming a better player than franklin
tambling getting alto of stick he show in teh last half of the year is can be something special


same top 5

other than that who cares

No... Franklin is number 1. Every club would pick it that way. Although I will give you Lids at 2. My top 5 would be

1 Franklin
2 Deledio
3 Roughead
4 Griffin
5 Lewis/ Le Cras/ Morris - all equal

 

[Howler]

Re: 2004 Draft Re-Done

Even though it was only one game .. LeCras could be edging up a bit more on the list? .. A few of you guys have him in the top 5 which I think is about right, probably own teams bias will have the order mixed

 

[melbournemartin]

Re: 2004 Draft Re-Done

No... Franklin is number 1. Every club would pick it that way. Although I will give you Lids at 2. My top 5 would be

1 Franklin
2 Deledio
3 Roughead
4 Griffin
5 Lewis/ Le Cras/ Morris - all equal

Lewis has had a couple of good games recently but isn't close to LeCras or Morris. As recently as last year Hawks supporters were calling for him to be dropped.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Re: 2004 Draft Re-Done

1. Franklin
2. Deledio
3. Griffen
4. Roughead
5. LeCras
6. Lewis
7. Maric
8. Van Berlo
9. Knights


Cloke was a FS so I wont rate him but he'd come in at 5. Egan also hard to rate due to his injuries.

The gap between Franklin and the pack has been somewhat narrowed this year.

 

[Pykie]

Re: 2004 Draft Re-Done

1. Franklin
2. Deledio
3. Griffen
4. Roughead
5. LeCras
6. Lewis
7. Maric
8. Van Berlo
9. Knights


Cloke was a FS so I wont rate him but he'd come in at 5. Egan also hard to rate due to his injuries.

The gap between Franklin and the pack has been somewhat narrowed this year.

Deledio and Griffen ahead of Cloke?


I hope you're taking the piss.


The gap between Franklin and Cloke isn't that great either.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Re: 2004 Draft Re-Done

Deledio and Griffen ahead of Cloke?


I hope you're taking the piss.


The gap between Franklin and Cloke isn't that great either.

2011 is the only season Cloke has been ahead of either of them. Maybe 2007 too.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Re: 2004 Draft Re-Done

Cloke is looking like a one-year wonder ATM. Has been very average this year. Would take either of Deledio or Griffen well ahead of him in current form.

Knights can't even get a game for the Crows at the moment though. Shouldn't be in the top 10.

 

[yaco55]

Re: 2004 Draft Re-Done

Cloke is looking like a one-year wonder ATM. Has been very average this year. Would take either of Deledio or Griffen well ahead of him in current form.

Knights can't even get a game for the Crows at the moment though. Shouldn't be in the top 10.

Cloke a one year wonder - Won the B and F in 2008 - yes 2008.

Unsure how much footy you watch.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Re: 2004 Draft Re-Done

And I remain shocked at how a forward with less than 14 touches and 2 goals a game ever won a B&F. Justin Westhoff is travelling better than that FFS.

He's always been good, but 2011 was the only year that he's been excellent.

 

[yaco55]

Go Power

You have no idea - Comparing Justin Westhoff to Travis Cloke - Are you sure that you don't mean Cameron Cloke or even Jason Cloke.

 

[Schulzenfest]

You're not great at this, are you?

Fact: Travis Cloke averaged under 14 disposals and under 2 goals in 2008 when he won the B&F.
Fact: Justin Westhoff is currently averaging more disposals and the same amount of goals as Travis Cloke did in 2008.

If you disagree with either of those facts, you are objectively wrong. If you disagree with the opinion I posted in the final sentence of that post, then perhaps you should explain why Travis Cloke was a star of the competition in 2008 and Justin Westhoff is a spud despite the fact that Westhoff is (statistically at least) travelling about as well as Cloke did that year.

And before anyone misconstrues this, my point isn't Justin Westhoff is as good as Cloke, my point is that Cloke wasn't a star of the competition in the year he won the B&F.

EDIT: After looking at this further, I've learned that Cloke actually won the B&F in 2007. Unsure how much footy you watch, yaco55. I'll be sure not to make the mistake of believing something you type again.

Oh, and Cloke in 2007 was statistically behind Westhoff in 2012 too, so my point stands.

 

[Spluff]

Re: 2004 Draft Re-Done

Won the B and F in 2008 - yes 2008.

Unsure how much footy you watch.

Didn't win the B and F in 2008 - no, not 2008.

 

[Scotland]

1. Franklin
2. Cloke
3. Griffen
4. Deledio
5. LeCras
6. Lewis
7. Van Berlo
8. Roughead
9. Rosa
10. Monfries

Thin draft after the top 5 or 10.

 

[robertg22]

You're not great at this, are you?

Fact: Travis Cloke averaged under 14 disposals and under 2 goals in 2008 when he won the B&F.
Fact: Justin Westhoff is currently averaging more disposals and the same amount of goals as Travis Cloke did in 2008.

If you disagree with either of those facts, you are objectively wrong. If you disagree with the opinion I posted in the final sentence of that post, then perhaps you should explain why Travis Cloke was a star of the competition in 2008 and Justin Westhoff is a spud despite the fact that Westhoff is (statistically at least) travelling about as well as Cloke did that year.

And before anyone misconstrues this, my point isn't Justin Westhoff is as good as Cloke, my point is that Cloke wasn't a star of the competition in the year he won the B&F.

EDIT: After looking at this further, I've learned that Cloke actually won the B&F in 2007. Unsure how much footy you watch, yaco55. I'll be sure not to make the mistake of believing something you type again.

Oh, and Cloke in 2007 was statistically behind Westhoff in 2012 too, so my point stands.

Yeah the B&F year was 2007.

That season he did start a bit slow but came home incredibly strong to win the B&F by a single vote IIRC from a second year Pendlebury. Cloke won the best finals player that year for the club which helped seal the deal. 78 shots on goal (unfortunately only 39.39) & 186 marks for a 20 year old CHF is a very good effort.

His 2008 was pretty good, kicked 40 goals. We did expect a bit more honestly. After the B&F win he copped a lot more attention and with Rocca going down that year he became our only key forward really.

2009 was terrible as far as his goalkicking output is concerned - to be fair to him though we did change our forward set up that year and went through John Anthony a lot more who kicked 50 goals that year.

2010 he was a vital part in a premiership team, again the goal kicking let him down (38.40). Last year we all know that he was absolutely dominant, but his season is enhanced mostly because of the improvement in his goalkicking. Kicked 69.48 which is a big improvement from the 38.40 the year before.

So far this year he's been pretty disappointing but is still working hard and presenting well. I still expect him to kick around 50 goals, has kicked 19 in 9 games but we're still yet to play any of the truly awful sides. The next couple of weeks could really boost his confidence.

As for comparisons to Westhoff I won't even bother, you're just trying to use numbers to try and skew things towards his favour when anyone with half a brain would laugh at it.

 

[yaco55]

You're not great at this, are you?

Fact: Travis Cloke averaged under 14 disposals and under 2 goals in 2008 when he won the B&F.
Fact: Justin Westhoff is currently averaging more disposals and the same amount of goals as Travis Cloke did in 2008.

If you disagree with either of those facts, you are objectively wrong. If you disagree with the opinion I posted in the final sentence of that post, then perhaps you should explain why Travis Cloke was a star of the competition in 2008 and Justin Westhoff is a spud despite the fact that Westhoff is (statistically at least) travelling about as well as Cloke did that year.

And before anyone misconstrues this, my point isn't Justin Westhoff is as good as Cloke, my point is that Cloke wasn't a star of the competition in the year he won the B&F.

EDIT: After looking at this further, I've learned that Cloke actually won the B&F in 2007. Unsure how much footy you watch, yaco55. I'll be sure not to make the mistake of believing something you type again.

Oh, and Cloke in 2007 was statistically behind Westhoff in 2012 too, so my point stands.

This gets even worse.

You are comparing Cloke in his third year with Westhoff in his sixth year.

 

[Schulzenfest]

You people really are slow, aren't you? Even after I went out of my way to point out that I'm not saying Westhoff is as good as Cloke you still think it's what I'm doing

What I'm saying is that Cloke, while he's always been good, only had one year where he was a star of the competition, 2011. The A-A selectors agree with that opinion, for what that's worth. I used a comparison to Justin Westhoff because he is widely considered as an average player but he had a similar output to Cloke in the year that yaco was claiming that Cloke was a star of the competition. Years don't come into it, if Westhoff is an average player now (and I don't disagree that he is) then Cloke couldn't have been a star of the competition in 2007/8 when he had a similar output to what Westhoff currently has. Get it now?