Redo the 2009 draft.

[100action]

Anyone can look like a star if you pick a small enough sample.

Take a poll of every non-North supporter on this board and I guarantee that 90+% rank Barlow, Christensen, Jetta, Duncan and probably Reid and Talia above Cunnington and Black.

Ummm Reid and Talia are easily better than Christensen, Jetta and Duncan. Both are AA standard whereas the other 3 are good but not elite.

 

[Daz]

Anyone can look like a star if you pick a small enough sample.

Take a poll of every non-North supporter on this board and I guarantee that 90+% rank Barlow, Christensen, Jetta, Duncan and probably Reid and Talia above Cunnington and Black.

Jetta (12) - Tough one to place because I do rate players who attract a tag but he just gets demolished every time. Too one dimensional.

Talia (7) - Had him at 7 because all he offers is defence. I'd be interested in people's thoughts on Matthew Warnock because that's the sort of player I view Talia as. For those who aren't aware, Warnock's actually a very good, albeit limited, defender.

Barlow (5) - Came close to putting him above Cunnington but decided to take the extra 4 years of games you'd get out of Cunnington and for him to continue to close the gap in output.

Christensen (8) and Duncan (9) - Love them both but I'm not sure why you'd have them any higher than where I put them.

Reid (11) - Would've liked him a bit higher but we're talking about a bloke who is pretty much a one goal a game forward.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Cunnington - 3rd in the AFL for clearances, 10th for contested possessions. Not only that, but they're quality possessions under pressure. Go have a look at his numbers for the last 18 games.

Black - Averaging 2.5 goals, 14 disposals, 5 marks and 3 tackles. As a comparison, these numbers are actually better than what Jack Darling's produced in the last 18 months. 11th in the AFL for goals per game and averaging 95 in Supercoach if you're into that kind of thing.

Cunnington's a good hard working player - he'd be top 10 for sure, 4 is a bit high.

Black has shown some good signs, but it's way too early to claim him as top 10 from this draft when he's got no sustainable form line.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Ummm Reid and Talia are easily better than Christensen, Jetta and Duncan. Both are AA standard whereas the other 3 are good but not elite.

Ummmm, no they aren't.

Especially not Reid - who's shown talent, but that's really all.

Talia is a negating defender, I can think of 10 KPD's I'd have in my team who can negate AND rebound AND intercept before I'd pick Talia.

 

[Daz]

People are too quick to pigeon-hole Cunnington as 'hard working'. They underestimate his creativity from stoppages. He's got a lot more talent than your average inside mid battler (like Shane Tuck for example).

 

[100action]

Ummmm, no they aren't.

Especially not Reid - who's shown talent, but that's really all.

Talia is a negating defender, I can think of 10 KPD's I'd have in my team who can negate AND rebound AND intercept before I'd pick Talia.

oops I assumed Ben Reid, nvm that then. LMFAO at Talia being worse than Duncan, Christensen and Jetta though. Also please list 10 KPD's that can negate, rebound and intercept you would have ahead of Talia.

 

[Daz]

oops I assumed Ben Reid, nvm that then. LMFAO at Talia being worse than Duncan, Christensen and Jetta though. Also please list 10 KPD's that can negate, rebound and intercept you would have ahead of Talia.

They're not all good offensively but off the top of my head I've have these 13 (in no particular order) ahead of Talia.

Taylor
McPharlin
Thompson
Jamison
Reid
Carlisle
Lonergan
R.Thompson
Merrett
Glass
Richards
Fisher
Rutten

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

oops I assumed Ben Reid, nvm that then. LMFAO at Talia being worse than Duncan, Christensen and Jetta though. Also please list 10 KPD's that can negate, rebound and intercept you would have ahead of Talia.

Okidokey.

Taylor
Richards
McPharlin
Glass
Jamison
Frawley
Thompson
Rivers
Gibson
Carlile

I could list more.

 

[100action]

Okidokey.

Taylor
Richards
McPharlin
Glass
Jamison
Frawley
Thompson
Rivers
Gibson
Carlile

I could list more.

Yes for Taylor, McPharlin and perhaps Carlisle. The others are suspect in key areas ie Gibson cant take KPF's he gets monstered, same goes for Jamison. Dont notice prolific intercept marking and rebounding from Glass and Richards. Havent seen much of Thompson to suggest he is better than Talia and Frawley's output has decreased greatly since his AA year.

Oddly enough you excluded Lake who does all three of those categories exceptionally well(long booming kick to an optimal target, contested + intercept marks and shutting down KPF's), I cant think of another current defender that plays like him in all these key areas.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Yes for Taylor, McPharlin and perhaps Carlisle. The others are suspect in key areas ie Gibson cant take KPF's he gets monstered, same goes for Jamison. Dont notice prolific intercept marking and rebounding from Glass and Richards. Havent seen much of Thompson to suggest he is better than Talia and Frawley's output has decreased greatly since his AA year.

Oddly enough you excluded Lake who does all three of those categories exceptionally well(long booming kick to an optimal target, contested + intercept marks and shutting down KPF's), I cant think of another current defender that plays like him in all these key areas.

I just did it off the top of my head, was going to put Lake down but I already had 10.

All the players I listed rebound, intercept and negate better then Talia - as a 'package'.

Gibson and Jamison have played on KPFs for 6-7+ years, sure Gibson has been monstered by Cloke... but who doesn't on occasion?

And Richards is just about the most prolific intercept marker in the competition... Glass and Thompson are up there as well.

Frawley is down on his AA year, he's still better then Talia - he actually provides some run and carry as well as stopping his man regularly.

 

[Rayklienig]

1. Fyfe
2. Martin
3. Carlisle
4. Cunnington
5. Barlow
6. Black
7. Talia
8. Christensen
9. Duncan
10. Crameri
11. Reid
12. Jetta
13. Scully
14. Bastinac
15. Stratton
16. Trengove
17. Gunston
18. Vardy
19. Grimes
20. Golby
21. Howlett

- Forgot Stratton and didn't want to ditch Howlett, hence the top 21.

- Carlisle and Black the bolters from this year. Hard to place them. May look back in 12 months time and see I've been caught up in the hype but I'm treating them as talls who took a pretty standard amount of time to breakout.

- Grimes and Vardy also very tough to place to due injury.

- Wanted to throw Roberton in there but I just haven't seen enough of him in StK colours yet to make a judgement.

- The talent drops off significantly after the top 25.

You guys will think I'm biased but jetta has a lot more runs on the board than just about all of them

 

[Rayklienig]

Jetta was nearly all Australian black kick 5 against st kilda seriously having a lend!

 

[Daz]

Jetta was nearly all Australian black kick 5 against st kilda seriously having a lend!

No he wasn't. He was good but got a lot of added hype because it was a breakout year.

With KPP's at this stage you're always going to be projecting quite a bit.

 

[Rayklienig]

No he wasn't. He was good but got a lot of added hype because it was a breakout year.

With KPP's at this stage you're always going to be projecting quite a bit.

Black has played 8 games

 

[Rayklienig]

No he wasn't. He was good but got a lot of added hype because it was a breakout year.

With KPP's at this stage you're always going to be projecting quite a bit.

He was in the 40 man squad that is pretty close in my eyes Black was playing vfl

 

[Daz]

Black has played 8 games

He was in the 40 man squad that is pretty close in my eyes Black was playing vfl

Hence my point about having to project for talls. Anyone who has seen Black play in any of his games this year would appreciate his quality. It's not as if he was playing bad footy in the past, he was just injured.


Didn't realise Jetta made the squad. What a disgrace. This comparison is a nice illustration of how overrated breakout players are:

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...48&type=A&fid1=P&fopt1=2012&fid2=P&fopt2=2012

One was talked up for AA, the other never even considered (and rightly so).

 

[Tulip]

Black has played 8 games

10. 19 goals in 10 games and he's 6th. LMAO.

 

[Rayklienig]

10. 19 goals in 10 games and he's 6th. LMAO.

Tarrant was the next best thing last year you guys are a joke

 

[Daz]

10. 19 goals in 10 games and he's 6th. LMAO.

And Sam Reid has 8 goals in his last 10 games despite more experience and less injuries. On performance he's nowhere near the top 20 but he has to be in there due to potential.

 

[Tulip]

And Sam Reid has 8 goals in his last 10 games despite more experience and less injuries. On performance he's nowhere near the top 20 but he has to be in there due to potential.

So lock him in at 20. Aside from a great game vs St Kilda, Black has shown nothing.

 

[Daz]

Tarrant was the next best thing last year you guys are a joke

I don't think anyone said Tarrant was the next 'best' thing. But fyi he's injured atm, not underperforming.

 

[Daz]

So lock him in at 20. Aside from a great game vs St Kilda, Black has shown nothing.

Incorrect. He's been arguably the best tall forward on the ground in each of his 6 games this year.

 

[Tulip]

Incorrect. He's been arguably the best tall forward on the ground in each of his 6 games this year.

Helps when Petrie takes two men.

 

[Rayklienig]

And Sam Reid has 8 goals in his last 10 games despite more experience and less injuries. On performance he's nowhere near the top 20 but he has to be in there due to potential.

Who cares I bet if you asked all 18 coaches who they would prefer 17 would say Reid. Maybe you should tell Black to kick a couple late to get your gutless wonders over the line

 

[Rayklienig]

Incorrect. He's been arguably the best tall forward on the ground in each of his 6 games this year.

All Australian then. Nobody even knows who he is