Redo the 2009 draft.

[Bazzar]

Don't worry, even with Deledio, no club will ever be able to match the fail that was Richmonds 2004 National Draft.

Or the Melbourne Football club from 1965 until now.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Or the Melbourne Football club from 1965 until now.

How have those finals series gone for you?

 

[Bazzar]

How have those finals series gone for you?

The 5 flags since your last have been good. Thanks for asking.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

The 5 flags since your last have been good. Thanks for asking.

I think we're splitting hairs with this..

 

[Jimmy_the_Gent]

I'll be watching Fyfe's kicking closely this weekend to see if he's really all that or whether there's a kink in the armour

"They've got plenty of room for growth," Lyon said.

"Nathan Fyfe is a third-year player … we're really excited about him. His ball use is an area that needs to improve. The great mids, like [Collingwood's Scott] Pendlebury, use it exceptionally well, so he'll (Fyfe) smooth off some rough layers.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/147784/default.aspx

Shamelessly blowing my own trumpet.

But I hope people are going to see Fyfe in a more accurate light now.

 

[Daz]

Love how honest Ross is when evaluating his own team.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I think Fyfe's kicking can be sublime - but he's pretty inconsistent with it normally.

He'll keep improving that and will be an absolute weapon.

 

[Patron]

Been saying fyfe's disposal is his biggest weakness for a while. Sometimes people struggle to breakdown young players like this especially if they are impressive. He's a gun regardless but to fulfil his potential (which is a top 5 mid for me) he needs to kick better. This is why i hate comparisons to J hird atm. Hird was an absolutely beautiful kick.

 

[santa claws]

Don't worry, even with Deledio, no club will ever be able to match the fail that was Richmonds 2004 National Draft.

just a little perspective.
while the 2004 draft was a massive fail and your probably right no club will ever fail as badly with 5 top 20 picks.
the 2004 draft was poor for all apart from hawthorn who absolutely smashed it. yes we should at the very least have got deledio and a couple of good decent players but it didnt happen.in that draft the only pick we truly stuffed up was pick 4 when you compare what went on around our other picks.

melbourne used just two nd picks that yr it was a good strategy. was bate at 12 and dunn at 15 a good draft for you guys.is tom williams a pick 6. john meesen went at 8 to adelaide, russell went at 9 to carlton egan at 10 to collingwood and adam thompson 11 to port.i could go on it doesnt make for pretty reading for most clubs.

compare the depth and quality of that draft to 2009 and it really is chalk and cheese.imo if we had 5 top 20 picks in 09 we would have done much better than 2004.09 was a hard draft to stuff up even for incompetents.

on 2009 for me one yr too early to judge the sml/med players. about 2 yrs too early for the talls. but like most on here i think it looks a deep and rewarding draft for most clubs.

 

[GloblFotbalCrsis]

From exposed form only:
1.Nathan Fyfe
2.Dustin Martin
3.Daniel Talia
4.Lewis Jetta
5.Tom Scully
6.Michael Barlow
7.Mitch Duncan
8.Allen Christensen
9.Jack Trengove
10.Sam Reid
11.Ryan Bastinac
12.Daniel Menzel
13.Ben Cunnington
14.Stewart Crameri

KPP are hindered by this of course and Sam Reid or Vardy may shoot up the order as could often injured players like scully or Menzel

 

[Ambrosia]

From exposed form only:
1.Nathan Fyfe
2.Dustin Martin
3.Daniel Talia
4.Lewis Jetta
5.Tom Scully
6.Michael Barlow
7.Mitch Duncan
8.Allen Christensen
9.Jack Trengove
10.Sam Reid
11.Ryan Bastinac
12.Daniel Menzel
13.Ben Cunnington
14.Stewart Crameri

KPP are hindered by this of course and Sam Reid or Vardy may shoot up the order as could often injured players like scully or Menzel

If its done on performance I'm not sure how Crameri is ranked 14th when he has shown more than numbers 13, 12, 8 and arguably 11,10, 9 and 7

 

[GloblFotbalCrsis]

If its done on performance I'm not sure how Crameri is ranked 14th when he has shown more than numbers 13, 12, 8 and arguably 11,10, 9 and 7

Crameri has kicked on average about the same number of goals as Menzal while Menzal has played games in the middle or off half back. Crameri also does not provide the same possessions and pressure (though his out put is not bad) as Menzal.
Christensen is a inside mid who has shown heaps and has kicked a few goals as well though he was injured for most of the year so I was basing him off his 2011 games only.
If you want i will put him ahead of cunnington but they are about even and only then did I downgrade crameri because of his age/potential.
You are a essondon supporter and thus overrate your players as I might but crameri is a decent 3rd tall and not able to cope with the better defenders and can have games were he provides nothing

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Crameri has kicked on average about the same number of goals as Menzal while Menzal has played games in the middle or off half back. Crameri also does not provide the same possessions and pressure (though his out put is not bad) as Menzal.

Crameri averages more goals, possessions and tackles than Menzel.

 

[GloblFotbalCrsis]

Crameri averages more goals, possessions and tackles than Menzel.

according to fan footy crameri averaged 13.17 possessions a game in 2011. the Geelong website had Menzels average possessions at 14.73. Went to fan footy for Menzel (as i first went to the clubs sites for both players) and they dropped his average to 6.2??????
Goals are 1.52 compared to 1.61 which is about the same considering menzal has played a couple of game at half back.
for tackles crameri adveraged 2.22 this year compared to 1.7 for menzal last year which puts crameri ahead but I was not using that.
Basicly i can't find accurate stats so you might be right

 

[Number 10]

according to fan footy crameri averaged 13.17 possessions a game in 2011. the Geelong website had Menzals average possessions at 14.73. Went to fan footy for Manzal (as i first went to the clubs sites for both players) and they dropped his average to 6.2??????
Goals are 1.52 compared to 1.61 which is about the same considering menzal has played a couple of game at half back.
for tackles crameri adveraged 2.22 this year compared to 1.7 for menzal last year which puts crameri ahead but I was not using that.
Basicly i can't find accurate stats so you might be right

Menzel

 

[Ambrosia]

Crameri has kicked on average about the same number of goals as Menzal while Menzal has played games in the middle or off half back. Crameri also does not provide the same possessions and pressure (though his out put is not bad) as Menzal.
Christensen is a inside mid who has shown heaps and has kicked a few goals as well though he was injured for most of the year so I was basing him off his 2011 games only.
If you want i will put him ahead of cunnington but they are about even and only then did I downgrade crameri because of his age/potential.
You are a essondon supporter and thus overrate your players as I might but crameri is a decent 3rd tall and not able to cope with the better defenders and can have games were he provides nothing

It doesn't make sense that you can allude to my Essendon bias and not count your Geelong bias. On performance Menzel and Christenson haven't done anything since 2011.

Crameri is loaded with potential of he is one of the better athletes in the entire league.

 

[Vtorians]

It doesn't make sense that you can allude to my Essendon bias and not count your Geelong bias. On performance Menzel and Christenson haven't done anything since 2011.

Crameri is loaded with potential of he is one of the better athletes in the entire league.

If he can convert his missed opportunities watch out, he'll be straight into the top 5 of that list.

 

[Andy_Mac]

This shows that Geelong destroyed this draft. I think we've got 3 players from that draft who will end up better than him yet unbiased observers are putting him in the top 10. If Menzel gets over his injuries he'll be a top 10 player from this draft. Christensen's a jet and could be anything with a bit more muscle. Vardy's the speculative one but some of the things he does shouldn't be done by a guy that's almost 200cm. Then there's Duncan who's a really solid contributor and good user of it. Not bad for picks 17, 28, 40 and 42. Add in Laidler as a promoted rookie and Podsiadly as a rookie pick and it's a huge draft period for Geelong.

Winners out of the draft: Geelong, Sydney (Jetta, Reid and Rohan), Freo (Fyfe, Morabito)
Losers out of the draft: Melbourne (4 picks in the first 18 and none of them would be top 10 if you were picking now)

Umm... or going by the same unbiased posters post that you quoted we would still have 2 in th top 10. Which ia exactly the number of picks we had in the top 10...

 

[GloblFotbalCrsis]

It doesn't make sense that you can allude to my Essendon bias and not count your Geelong bias. On performance Menzel and Christenson haven't done anything since 2011.

Crameri is loaded with potential of he is one of the better athletes in the entire league.

I said I had bias in my first response. Also the fact Menzel has not done anything since 2011 does not count he did his acl twice and has not played a game. Christiansen has played well this year despite carring a number of injuries from early in the season. while it is not much of a guide i remember he was averaging about 120 DT points for the last 8 or so games in 2011 when he was fit and not sub.
Crameri is also 24 all ready and he should have shown all the potential he has, the fact he need's bigger names with him in the forward line for him to play well bring's him down a bit for me.

 

[Grockadoc]

Those who are saying Martin Clearly, or Fyfe Clearly, are kidding themselves. They are two different types of players, who have very similar statistical averages, so how one can "clearly be better" when stats show they are on par is outrageous. For what it is worth, I rate Fyfe as a better midfielder than Martin, but Martin a better forward, and a lot more damaging. I think the fact Fyfe was picked at pick 20 influences a lot of peoples decisions, and his injury record, for a 3rd year player is pretty ominous. As a result, I would take Martin, not by much, but the ability for him to go forward, and kick 2-3 goals is amazing.

Also, people saying Martin's year was disappointing, it wasn't really, for a third year player. The only reason it has been disappointing is because his first 2 were so brilliant.

 

[Ambrosia]

Crameri is also 24 all ready and he should have shown all the potential he has, the fact he need's bigger names with him in the forward line for him to play well bring's him down a bit for me.

I'm sorry mate but that's bullshit there is no age where a player should have shown all his potential. Look at Ted Richards had by a fair margin his best season this year and he is in his late 20s. If Crameri can improve his accuracy in front of goal so he doesn't regularly miss the easy ones then he improves his production by 10 to 15 goals next season.

 

[GloblFotbalCrsis]

I'm sorry mate but that's bullshit there is no age where a player should have shown all his potential. Look at Ted Richards had by a fair margin his best season this year and he is in his late 20s. If Crameri can improve his accuracy in front of goal so he doesn't regularly miss the easy ones then he improves his production by 10 to 15 goals next season.

Most players have shown what they have got by 24 and Richards is the exception not the rule. saying that he (Richards) did not really improve that much, rather the game has changed to suit the one on one spoiling defender rather than the athletic types. Also I'm also not saying Crameri is bad don't get me wrong I obviously just do not rate him as highly as you

 

[Bazzar]

If its done on performance I'm not sure how Crameri is ranked 14th when he has shown more than numbers 13, 12, 8 and arguably 11,10, 9 and 7

Agree with this.

Crameri is one of the better Bombers, wouldnt mind him at the Tiges.

 

[mattyc75]

still spewin the eagles didnt pick jetta!!

 

[Daz]

A year the West Coast recruiting dept will want to forget, that's for sure.