Reduce the size of the MCC reserve

[Bunk Moreland]

Key point, unlike some of his ignorant members:

Fox believes there is an obligation to fill the MCC reserve at sold-out games, to ensure as many Victorians get to big clashes as possible.

 

[Power Raid]

Give the MCC members 60 minutes before kick off to arrive. If not, sell the seats to the general public

 

[The Final Word]

Key point, unlike some of his ignorant members:

I don't disagree with what he's saying at all. But he's committed to bugger all at this point, let's see what actually happens.

Likely outcome will be altering a 60/40 walk up to reserved mix to about 50/50. There's no rush, it only affects about 5 games a year if that. I reckon they should consider flogging those top deck seats towards the back free and/or offer multiple visitors tickets in those sections. So max 1 visitors tickets in the current areas that get reserved and max 2 or 3 up the back. The club's not going to worry about getting $50,000 or $100,000 income I'm guessing.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I don't disagree with what he's saying at all. But he's committed to bugger all at this point, let's see what actually happens.

Likely outcome will be altering a 60/40 walk up to reserved mix to about 50/50. There's no rush, it only affects about 5 games a year if that. I reckon they should consider flogging those top deck seats towards the back free and/or offer multiple visitors tickets in those sections. So max 1 visitors tickets in the current areas that get reserved and max 2 or 3 up the back. The club's not going to worry about getting $50,000 or $100,000 income I'm guessing.

I think he has the right attitude and is publicly speaking about what they can do, which is good.

He knows ultimately the pressure will come on if they don’t fix it. There’s something wrong when you have over 100k members and can’t fill a 23k reserve.

What’s most interesting is the number of members who just don’t use their membership.

While the figures are a few years old (2015), for that year the MCC had 104k members.

- 30k (29%) did not attend the ground at all for the year.

- 57k (55%) attended two or less events.

- less than 25% attended six or more events

http://mccnews.mcc.org.au/november-2015-edition/membership-statistics

It’s obvious: the majority of MCC members are barely interested in attending anything.

Far from the claims of “they were in the bar” and “we want to walk up”, it’s simply become a membership which people hold but actually don’t use.

That’s their call, but it leads to the larger issue of a reserve at high-demand events that simply doesn’t get utilised. If they’re happy not to use it, somebody else will.

Use it or lose it.

 

[The Final Word]

It’s obvious: the majority of MCC members are barely interested in attending anything.

Far from the claims of “they were in the bar” and “we want to walk up”, it’s simply become a membership which people hold but actually don’t use.

That’s their call, but it leads to the larger issue of a reserve at high-demand events that simply doesn’t get utilised. If they’re happy not to use it, somebody else will.

Use it or lose it.

Big call, fact is that it's such good value, and the wait list means you'll never see it again, that those that can't use it will still renew their membership even if they're overseas for a couple of years.

Feels like we're blowing things out of proportion just a bit, they still got 22,000 through their gate on Friday yeah? Go 11k each for walkup and for reserved for Cat 1 games next season and see what happens.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

If you're a full member such as you or me, then it's awesome. If you're not and are still a long way from being granted full membership, then it's becoming increasingly limited in its value.

All this MCC ranting misses the biggest point of all - that next to no one is progressing further through their membership categories any more. MCC full membership is moving at a rate of two months' acceptance for every 12 months of nominations; AFL Gold Membership is increasingly unobtainable for Silver Members; and the biggest AFL clubs are now charging close to $2,000 per annum on top of normal membership costs in order to secure assured competing club Grand Final ticket access. (That's in Victoria - I'm assuming the picture isn't much different in South Australia or Western Australia).

The lesson is not that tickets to major finals are unobtainable to 'real' fans - it's that 30 years' locking fans into membership commitments has made accessing tickets incredibly hard for those who will become die-hards during the next decade. And due to changes in many club's constitutions, you don't even have a say in changing that process. That's actually one of the best things about MCC full membership - it's an actual club, run for and by its members.

This very good point shouldnt go without comment. The clubs look after real fans far worse than the MCC. At least at the MCC every Member is treated equally and not able to simply pay up a few grand to jump the queue when it suits them because their team is winning games and they can afford it.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I think he has the right attitude and is publicly speaking about what they can do, which is good.

He knows ultimately the pressure will come on if they don’t fix it. There’s something wrong when you have over 100k members and can’t fill a 23k reserve.

What’s most interesting is the number of members who just don’t use their membership.

While the figures are a few years old (2015), for that year the MCC had 104k members.

- 30k (29%) did not attend the ground at all for the year.

- 57k (55%) attended two or less events.

- less than 25% attended six or more events

http://mccnews.mcc.org.au/november-2015-edition/membership-statistics

It’s obvious: the majority of MCC members are barely interested in attending anything.

Far from the claims of “they were in the bar” and “we want to walk up”, it’s simply become a membership which people hold but actually don’t use.

That’s their call, but it leads to the larger issue of a reserve at high-demand events that simply doesn’t get utilised. If they’re happy not to use it, somebody else will.

Use it or lose it.

This topic is about 2500 people, not 78,000.

There were also 2500 people in the outer who also paid good money and didnt turn up.

The dormant members simply contribute free money to ground development that all Victorians benefit from.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

This very good point shouldnt go without comment. The clubs look after real fans far worse than the MCC. At least at the MCC every Member is treated equally and not able to simply pay up a few grand to jump the queue when it suits them because their team is winning games and they can afford it.

Very true

This topic is about 2500 people, not 78,000.

There were also 2500 people in the outer who also paid good money and didnt turn up.

The dormant members simply contribute free money to ground development that all Victorians benefit from.

It’s very relevant. The MCC’s numbers indicate that there’s a large proportion of the base who aren’t interested in actually attending. Of those that do, a majority barely attend at all.

It’s relevant because there could be a way for the MCC to better look after provisional and even waiting list members who do want to attend, and can make use of a reserve that full members don’t use anyway.

 

[blue harvest]

This topic is about 2500 people, not 78,000.

There were also 2500 people in the outer who also paid good money and didnt turn up.

The dormant members simply contribute free money to ground development that all Victorians benefit from.

Where did the 2500 in the outer come from? I suspect someone just subtracted 95k and 2,500 from 100k to arrive at that figure.
They don't try for 100,000 tickets on PF day. They only do it for the GF.
To get 100k they need to pack the standing room and max out every box, dining area etc and do some creative counting of people they maybe shouldn't be counting. Realistic capacity for PF is about 98k.

 

[Minka Beaver]

This very good point shouldnt go without comment. The clubs look after real fans far worse than the MCC. At least at the MCC every Member is treated equally and not able to simply pay up a few grand to jump the queue when it suits them because their team is winning games and they can afford it.

I think equally important to the OP's argument is that MCC members are in a position to self-police ticketing adjustments, because the club is actually answerable to its members. That's why the MCC is such a double-edged sword - it's traditionally fiercely protective of existing members' entitlements, because the club is answerable to its base. The flip side being that it has become grindingly slow at introducing new full and restricted members (no one under the age of 27), as it seeks not to over-subscribe big events.

That slow progression also occurs with AFL Membership, but it's a 'like it or lump it' approach. No one canvassed AFL full members when their Finals ticket allocations were reduced in 2000 thanks to the Medallion Club - the AFL wanted to give guaranteed Grand Final access to 5,000 new corporate seat holders at Docklands and if you didn't like it, then stuff you.

The same thing is fast happening at AFL clubs, because they're controlled by AFL House and many aren't true membership clubs - they've become franchises.

In all likelihood, I think the outcome of this year's MCG Finals will be twofold for the MCC: 1) we'll see more reserved seating sold for minor finals; and 2) there'll be more pressure to implement a better system that explains what capacity is still available in the MCC Reserve on a real-time basis.

 

[doppleganger]

Easy solution is to flip level 4 seating.

Have the back rows as ‘reserved’ and leave the better seats as walk up.

The advantage of reserved is you can swan in at 7:30 and take your place. That is what you are paying for.

The point of walk-up is that it rewards the die hards with the best seats...the people queueing were overwhelming Tigers and Pies, as to them it is worth the wait to get a good seat.

The problem is that they left the worst seats in the ground for walk-up, and also had them ticketed...this meant many neutrals didn’t bother coming.

Flip it and if walk ups are grabbing seat in Row Q on level 4 instead of HH and people will walk up.

Reserved seats will still sell-out.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Easy solution is to flip level 4 seating.

Have the back rows as ‘reserved’ and leave the better seats as walk up.

The advantage of reserved is you can swan in at 7:30 and take your place. That is what you are paying for.

The point of walk-up is that it rewards the die hards with the best seats...the people queueing were overwhelming Tigers and Pies, as to them it is worth the wait to get a good seat.

The problem is that they left the worst seats in the ground for walk-up, and also had them ticketed...this meant many neutrals didn’t bother coming.

Flip it and if walk ups are grabbing seat in Row Q on level 4 instead of HH and people will walk up.

Reserved seats will still sell-out.

Forcing people to pay up to sit in the worst seats? Nahhh

People with reserved seats will just grab an unreserved seat in the lower sections of level Q instead and leave their reserved seats as a plan B

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Where did the 2500 in the outer come from? I suspect someone just subtracted 95k and 2,500 from 100k to arrive at that figure.
They don't try for 100,000 tickets on PF day. They only do it for the GF.
To get 100k they need to pack the standing room and max out every box, dining area etc and do some creative counting of people they maybe shouldn't be counting. Realistic capacity for PF is about 98k.

I read it on Bigfooty. My source is impeccible,

And why dont they try for max capacity anyway? Isnt this the point of the whinging....that the MCC Members wasnt at max capacity?

 

[footyboi1]

Plenty? The Dining Room, Committee Room and the Jim Stynes Grill. The rest are all available to any full MCC member (and most to anyone with a ticket to the reserve), provided they meet the dress requirements

Not that they'd complain, but with Hawthorn, Melbourne, Richmond, Collingwood and Geelong all playing finals against another Victorian club at the MCG this year, it's put the MCC in a bit of a pickle. A limit of one visitor ticket might not be enough. A limit of two would probably be too much.

I'm really sorry that a few rows of empty seats makes people so angry, but there were still 95,000 in attendance, which isn't too bad, I would have thought.

Should have cracked 100k. Ez.

 

[yodellinhank]

Key point, unlike some of his ignorant members:

bunk ignorance would be to carry on about restricted members not being able to go, or to blame attendence on a walk up system whilst dismissing the thousands of ticketed no-shows.

 

[Starburns_]

I don't understand why cricket club members get preference over football club members. Why Gil signed up for 50 years of this bullshit is beyond me, Melbourne mates looking after Melbourne mates.

It's a cricket club in name only. It's basically just a stadium membership. A stadium membership which is the major reason the MCG is almost entirely a financially self-sufficient venue.

If the MCC is a competent organisation, they would have done an investigation about alternatives (i.e. 1 hour before the game open to a wider base). It would be interesting to hear the answer if someone could ask a question asking about what the reserve can do to ensure there are never empty seats during a sold out game during the AGM.

I imagine now that Fox has made his comment that at least someone will want this clarified.

You're right, if be sitting up the back, or more likely, in the Frank Grey Smith. For me that bar is basically my local pub. It just happens to have live sport on.

Fair enough. The Frank Grey is great, very difficult to get a spot with a view of the ground though.

I think equally important to the OP's argument is that MCC members are in a position to self-police ticketing adjustments, because the club is actually answerable to its members. That's why the MCC is such a double-edged sword - it's traditionally fiercely protective of existing members' entitlements, because the club is answerable to its base. The flip side being that it has become grindingly slow at introducing new full and restricted members (no one under the age of 27), as it seeks not to over-subscribe big events.

27 is the age of the youngest members with the ability to vote, provisional the youngest would be 15-16 (15 being the youngest you can be as a member). Provisional was created to try and ease the strain on the waiting list and utilise the full extent of the reserve more often, but the club can't really go much faster with number of full members due to the Grand Final issue.

In all likelihood, I think the outcome of this year's MCG Finals will be twofold for the MCC: 1) we'll see more reserved seating sold for minor finals; and 2) there'll be more pressure to implement a better system that explains what capacity is still available in the MCC Reserve on a real-time basis.

^^This. Despite Fox suggesting selling to the public (presumably to gain some breathing room), it's likely all initial changes will be internal ones and will be focused on the membership first.

People with reserved seats will just grab an unreserved seat in the lower sections of level Q instead and leave their reserved seats as a plan B

This is what would happen, it already does with some games.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

bunk ignorance would be to carry on about restricted members not being able to go, or to blame attendence on a walk up system whilst dismissing the thousands of ticketed no-shows.

No, ignorance would be throwing up the “no problems here!” sign when even the CEO says otherwise.

Re restricted members, I clearly stated it was an error and I meant provisional members. Stop clouding a discussion with stupid semantics.

 

[doppleganger]

Forcing people to pay up to sit in the worst seats? Nahhh

People with reserved seats will just grab an unreserved seat in the lower sections of level Q instead and leave their reserved seats as a plan B

You are paying for the convenience of not having to line up.

None of the best seats, L2, are able to be booked.

Or make it like L1 where entire bays are reserved and other bays are left for walk up.

Put the forward flank bays on lev4 up for reserved, and keep the bays on the wing as walk up.

Making level4 fully ticketed was a mistake too.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

You are paying for the convenience of not having to line up.

None of the best seats, L2, are able to be booked.

Or make it like L1 where entire bays are reserved and other bays are left for walk up.

Put the forward flank bays on lev4 up for reserved, and keep the bays on the wing as walk up.

Making level4 fully ticketed was a mistake too.

I'm sure there will be tweaks along the way (there are every year, despite hints and suggestions on this thread that the MCC is oblivious to public opinion). But your initial suggestion of prebooking the s**t upper level 4 seats and leaving the good lower level 4 seats as a free-for-all wont be one of those tweaks. Its just nonsense.

I dont think the issue is "which bays should be reserved and which should be walkup".

 

[TimmeT]

No, ignorance would be throwing up the “no problems here!” sign when even the CEO says otherwise.

Re restricted members, I clearly stated it was an error and I meant provisional members. Stop clouding a discussion with stupid semantics.

This topic is about 2500 people, not 78,000.

There were also 2500 people in the outer who also paid good money and didnt turn up.

The dormant members simply contribute free money to ground development that all Victorians benefit from.

Excellent point.

Very true



It’s very relevant. The MCC’s numbers indicate that there’s a large proportion of the base who aren’t interested in actually attending. Of those that do, a majority barely attend at all.

It’s relevant because there could be a way for the MCC to better look after provisional and even waiting list members who do want to attend, and can make use of a reserve that full members don’t use anyway.

Yet more people didn't turn up who had bought a ticket.

What happens if the same situation happens if the MCC goes fully reserved? Will you then suddenly say it is OK and not an issue because the tickets were paid for? Even though this ultimately leaves everyone in the same situation of people not being able to attend who want to.

I think equally important to the OP's argument is that MCC members are in a position to self-police ticketing adjustments, because the club is actually answerable to its members. That's why the MCC is such a double-edged sword - it's traditionally fiercely protective of existing members' entitlements, because the club is answerable to its base. The flip side being that it has become grindingly slow at introducing new full and restricted members (no one under the age of 27), as it seeks not to over-subscribe big events.

That slow progression also occurs with AFL Membership, but it's a 'like it or lump it' approach. No one canvassed AFL full members when their Finals ticket allocations were reduced in 2000 thanks to the Medallion Club - the AFL wanted to give guaranteed Grand Final access to 5,000 new corporate seat holders at Docklands and if you didn't like it, then stuff you.

The same thing is fast happening at AFL clubs, because they're controlled by AFL House and many aren't true membership clubs - they've become franchises.

In all likelihood, I think the outcome of this year's MCG Finals will be twofold for the MCC: 1) we'll see more reserved seating sold for minor finals; and 2) there'll be more pressure to implement a better system that explains what capacity is still available in the MCC Reserve on a real-time basis.

There are a fair few folk I have heard of and who have been posting in this topic who live far enough out of Melbourne to only make attending a Friday night final fixture worth it if they could get a reserved seat. As these had all sold out and based on the estimated demand, they didn't even think about coming because it was too much of a risk to attend and miss out. Thus the reserved seat option should be looked at more closely firstly and then followed by allocating more visitor tickets as I know a fair few who would attend and bring someone else like their son or daughters if they could be guaranteed of getting them a seat too.

 

[Starburns_]

You are paying for the convenience of not having to line up.

None of the best seats, L2, are able to be booked.

Or make it like L1 where entire bays are reserved and other bays are left for walk up.

Put the forward flank bays on lev4 up for reserved, and keep the bays on the wing as walk up.

Making level4 fully ticketed was a mistake too.

And if you're reserved in the last row of level 4 and turn up early enough to see better seats further down, then most people will just take them.

One person occupying 2 seats. It happens a lot and there is no way of policing it.

 

[Hawthorn United]

I think he has the right attitude and is publicly speaking about what they can do, which is good.

He knows ultimately the pressure will come on if they don’t fix it. There’s something wrong when you have over 100k members and can’t fill a 23k reserve.

What’s most interesting is the number of members who just don’t use their membership.

While the figures are a few years old (2015), for that year the MCC had 104k members.

- 30k (29%) did not attend the ground at all for the year.

- 57k (55%) attended two or less events.

- less than 25% attended six or more events

http://mccnews.mcc.org.au/november-2015-edition/membership-statistics

It’s obvious: the majority of MCC members are barely interested in attending anything.

Far from the claims of “they were in the bar” and “we want to walk up”, it’s simply become a membership which people hold but actually don’t use.

That’s their call, but it leads to the larger issue of a reserve at high-demand events that simply doesn’t get utilised. If they’re happy not to use it, somebody else will.

Use it or lose it.

It's definitely held for big events like Grand Final, Anzac Day and Boxing Day and a major reason for the MCG getting the AFL to commit to having the Grand Final there for so long. Without a guaranteed Grand Final there, I doubt there would be a big waiting list for it.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

It’s very relevant. The MCC’s numbers indicate that there’s a large proportion of the base who aren’t interested in actually attending. Of those that do, a majority barely attend at all.

It’s relevant because there could be a way for the MCC to better look after provisional and even waiting list members who do want to attend, and can make use of a reserve that full members don’t use anyway.

Again, Astonished to see the love and compassion shown on this thread to Restricted and Provisional Members.

There are 60 million reasons (per annum) why having a large membership base is a good thing for all attendees of the Melbourne Cricket Ground.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

And if you're reserved in the last row of level 4 and turn up early enough to see better seats further down, then most people will just take them.

One person occupying 2 seats. It happens a lot and there is no way of policing it.

Unless the seats you have booked are better than the ones available for walk-ins. Then it doesnt need policing. This is what happens currently.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Again, Astonished to see the love and compassion shown on this thread to Restricted and Provisional Members.

There are 60 million reasons (per annum) why having a large membership base is a good thing for all attendees of the Melbourne Cricket Ground.

It’s not love. People would just rather see seats at a high demand event occupied by somebody who wants to go, rather than empty.

If you were a provisional member and Collingwood or Richmond supporter who wanted to go on Friday (there’s be plenty, both clubs have huge supporter bases), then you should feel stiffed that poor, outdated planning and policies meant the seat you wanted sat unoccupied.