Oppo Camp Regular Non Eagles Discussion V2

[the harry]

I think you're completely missing the point.

You also clearly don't understand crypto at all to make a ridiculous claim that it has 'zero' fundamentals.

Plenty of crypto pays out dividends and interest to investors. In fact, that's predominately how people grow their wealth in crypto as it's very difficult to reliably make money from trading unless you're a pro. That goes for the share market also.

Bitcoin had 22bn USD of transactions in the past 24 hours. That's one singular crypto currency.

Ethereum had nearly 13bn.

Tether, the no.1 stablecoin had 52bn.

This is very low volume for these 2, during peak market conditions they'll far exceed 100bn per day.

Pretty impressive for a sector that has around 1% share of the global financial system. Not sure it's fair to compare the volume from the world's banks combined to what Bitcoin does, considering banks have had a few hundred years to gain traction over Bitcoin.

I can understand people comparing Bitcoin to banking in regards to power usage, as Bitcoin is soon to be the only major 'proof of work' currency on the blockchain. Even then, it'll mostly be sourced from sources of renewable energy, making your claim that it's wasteful redundant.

If you're interested, watch the below video which explains this very thoroughly.

You directly compared the two when arguing that Bitcoin uses less energy then say it's only 1% of the market?

If Bitcoin was to become a universally recognised currency, the proportion of renewable energy would be the same as the grid in general..... so not majority renewable.

What is the definition of fundamentals as it applies to crypto? Can any produce a financial statement?

 

[bzparkes]

You directly compared the two when arguing that Bitcoin uses less energy then say it's only 1% of the market?

If Bitcoin was to become a universally recognised currency, the proportion of renewable energy would be the same as the grid in general..... so not majority renewable.

What is the definition of fundamentals as it applies to crypto? Can any produce a financial statement?

It was already using 70% renewables before China kicked the miners out.

Watch the video I provided to gain a further understanding. You might also be interested to know how much energy is 'wasted', i.e., never actually used, before you harp on about how 'harmful' Bitcoin is for the environment.

Sorry, but it appears you've swallowed the mainstream media bait hook, line and sinker in regards to this.

And yes, you actually can produce a financial statement. Quite easily in fact. How else do you think we do our taxes?

 

[jaxxon]

Cliffs on getting rich quick please?

 

[kane249]

Cliffs on getting rich quick please?

If you pay me $500 I will tell you how...

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

If you pay me $500 I will tell you how...

I'll do it for $50

 

[Biggie]

* me

This thread now

 

[the harry]

And yes, you actually can produce a financial statement. Quite easily in fact. How else do you think we do our taxes?

I meant in terms of fundamentals for a crypto currency.....

 

[Dylan82]

To be fair - the biggest swindle with cryptos is that they are able to be even considered as currency in the first place.

The purposefully non-regulated basis behind it means it can never be fiat or guaranteed.

The finite supply amounts also intrinsically means they should be graded more as resources akin to minerals, rather than currency.


However without transactional purchase availability, most of the media-friendly hype attribution would be lost from the product, and the resultant hyperinflation of prices would not be anywhere near as apparent.


People like to sell cryptos as the "future" etc, but really they are little more than parking lots for the obscenely wealthy to avoid taxation and accrue growth at a faster rate than a bank account in Switzerland or the Cayman Islands.

The rest of us, who get caught up in the hype (and thus add to the inflation of the product) are being had for absolute mugs.

 

[bzparkes]

I meant in terms of fundamentals for a crypto currency.....

What fundamentals are you referring to exactly?

A crypto service such as BlockFi offers the same services a bank does in regards to an interest earning account to keep your crypto in, as well as offering a credit card and loans, just like a bank.

 

[bzparkes]

To be fair - the biggest swindle with cryptos is that they are able to be even considered as currency in the first place.

The purposefully non-regulated basis behind it means it can never be fiat or guaranteed.

The finite supply amounts also intrinsically means they should be graded more as resources akin to minerals, rather than currency.


However without transactional purchase availability, most of the media-friendly hype attribution would be lost from the product, and the resultant hyperinflation of prices would not be anywhere near as apparent.


People like to sell cryptos as the "future" etc, but really they are little more than parking lots for the obscenely wealthy to avoid taxation and accrue growth at a faster rate than a bank account in Switzerland or the Cayman Islands.

The rest of us, who get caught up in the hype (and thus add to the inflation of the product) are being had for absolute mugs.

Initially Bitcoin was created as a currency. it's only now that the technology is starting to catch up to the vision that was promised.

People still have to declare taxes. in fact, the wealthy over in the USA are probably more likely to pay taxes on their crypto assets than they are in an offshore bank account as it's tied to their name and not their location. Sure, they can hide it. They'll get sprung quite easily the second they attempt to mobilise it and cash out on a centralised exchange, unless they move to a crypto friendly nation of course.

People who get caught up in the hype can certainly be taken for mugs. It's up to those people to learn more about how to be successful in the space however to ultimately be in charge of their own destiny. It's when they make decisions based on emotion that they ultimately lose out.

 

[navi_]

To say crypto and listed equities are equal in terms of fundamentals is laughable.

Listed equities have:

• A board of directors with history and track record of meeting goals/milestones. paramount in small.micro cap space
• macro/micro environment tailwinds that can dictate sentiment. electrification of vehicles/decarbonisation of our world is the most obvious one when you look at the recent lithium prices
• quantitative data like cash flow, debt to equity ratio, capEX opEX, roe, p.s ratio and p.e ratio
• qualitative data (which ties into the board) such as any moat/competitive advantage a company may have and business model

cryptocurrency has none of the above. there is no agenda to satisfy shareholders and no earnings to drive the SP.

as far as fundamentals for crypto go its non doxed devs who can rug pull at anytime and Elon tweets driving retail punters into a frenzy only to get caught holding the bag

the finite nature of some coins means there is SOME argument for it as a hedge against inflation but each to their own there.

TRADING/SPECULATING on crypto using TECHNICAL analysis has merit but this has nothing to do with the fundamentals

 

[KERRPOW]

To be fair - the biggest swindle with cryptos is that they are able to be even considered as currency in the first place.

The purposefully non-regulated basis behind it means it can never be fiat or guaranteed.

The finite supply amounts also intrinsically means they should be graded more as resources akin to minerals, rather than currency.


However without transactional purchase availability, most of the media-friendly hype attribution would be lost from the product, and the resultant hyperinflation of prices would not be anywhere near as apparent.


People like to sell cryptos as the "future" etc, but really they are little more than parking lots for the obscenely wealthy to avoid taxation and accrue growth at a faster rate than a bank account in Switzerland or the Cayman Islands.

The rest of us, who get caught up in the hype (and thus add to the inflation of the product) are being had for absolute mugs.

The modern day tulip trades

 

[Truckosaurus]

You can't eat crypto if you go bust though. I'll stick to tulips.

 

[kane249]

You can't eat crypto if you go bust though. I'll stick to tulips.

Your secret shame

 

[bUCKET__]

Your secret shame

 

[bzparkes]

To say crypto and listed equities are equal in terms of fundamentals is laughable.

Listed equities have:

• A board of directors with history and track record of meeting goals/milestones. paramount in small.micro cap space
• macro/micro environment tailwinds that can dictate sentiment. electrification of vehicles/decarbonisation of our world is the most obvious one when you look at the recent lithium prices
• quantitative data like cash flow, debt to equity ratio, capEX opEX, roe, p.s ratio and p.e ratio
• qualitative data (which ties into the board) such as any moat/competitive advantage a company may have and business model

cryptocurrency has none of the above. there is no agenda to satisfy shareholders and no earnings to drive the SP.

as far as fundamentals for crypto go its non doxed devs who can rug pull at anytime and Elon tweets driving retail punters into a frenzy only to get caught holding the bag

the finite nature of some coins means there is SOME argument for it as a hedge against inflation but each to their own there.

TRADING/SPECULATING on crypto using TECHNICAL analysis has merit but this has nothing to do with the fundamentals

Have you ever researched and invested into a crypto project by any chance? Because based off what you've posted, it appears you haven't.

I'm not talking about simply buying tokens, I'm talking about looking into registered companies that offer tokens via an ICO to fund their initial project and follow a set road map with achievable targets and revenue earning streams. There's plenty out there. Most are blockchain focused of course but they offer solutions to problems and plenty are looking to offer real-world solutions also.

What you're describing are meme coins, which are a waste of time and money if you have NFI what you are doing. Plenty of registered businesses out there using token sales to fund their projects, of which the tokens increase in value due to their customers having to buy/hold the tokens to access services. This in turn generates a 'tax' which goes to the team in the form of mainstream tokens, such as BNB, so they can pay their teams, as well as for other services they may need.

The best part? It's impossible to hide the activity of their team wallets, unlike the dodgy backdoor shenanigans these 'trustworthy' equities undertake.

 

[navi_]

Have you ever researched and invested into a crypto project by any chance? Because based off what you've posted, it appears you haven't.

I'm not talking about simply buying tokens, I'm talking about looking into registered companies that offer tokens via an ICO to fund their initial project and follow a set road map with achievable targets and revenue earning streams. There's plenty out there. Most are blockchain focused of course but they offer solutions to problems and plenty are looking to offer real-world solutions also.

What you're describing are meme coins, which are a waste of time and money if you have NFI what you are doing. Plenty of registered businesses out there using token sales to fund their projects, of which the tokens increase in value due to their customers having to buy/hold the tokens to access services. This in turn generates a 'tax' which goes to the team in the form of mainstream tokens, such as BNB, so they can pay their teams, as well as for other services they may need.

The best part? It's impossible to hide the activity of their team wallets, unlike the dodgy backdoor shenanigans these 'trustworthy' equities undertake.

I most certainly haven't invested in any crypto projects. you can find the kind of asymmetric returns crypto offers by throwing money at any lithium/rare earths on the asx in the past 18 months.

would love to hear about the fundamentals and services of these projects that they offer via initial coin offerings.

 

[Truckosaurus]

Perhaps hear about it in another thread?

 

[WCE_phil]

I'd love to see how cryptos hold up in a major world crisis. IE a multinational war involving major players.

Russia keeps playing their cards as they are and they will be forced to take up against GB, NATO and the EU. The major part being that the EU only really stands if it is willing to back its member states.

Also interesting to see how China maintains control of its economic system if debts are called or now with very few internal growth measures to improve quality of life for the masses whether it militarises the country or implodes from within.

 

[bzparkes]

Well, here's a couple which are early in project life but could blow up to be gigantic, not just on the BlockChain but in the real world:

Loud Market - Music NFT marketplace, which hasn't been fully explored yet as a space. Yes, people think NFTs are 'laundering' but imagine buying one of a kind pieces from your favourite artists. Will be highly sought after as exclusive pieces, plus they have another NFT set which will enable you to attend Metaverse concerts and rent them out if you don't want to attend. Metaverse is predicted to be a 3 trillion dollar industry within the next few years. Company has CEO(himself a corporate lawyer), CIO, marketing director, dev team, etc.

Company aims to make money from trading fees of their native token, which users have to buy to purchase their NFTs. Already have over 300 verified artists prior to launch, with apps in the pipeline so you can listen to your own NFTs. Artists can also set the royalty fees themselves, which are applicable for every transaction of said NFTs forever. Marketplace will be going live sometime within the next month and has great potential to go mainstream in a few years.

Otium - Food and beverage blockchain services which has an app in development, similar to Me&u, Chewzie, etc. Difference being that it's not only food related. You can shout your mates via the app down the pub, use it for check in/concierge services and more. Very early in development but the founder and CEO has over 20 years experience in F&B in Spain, app scheduled for deployment Q1 this year and already paid out 2 rounds of dividends to holders. They have a range of other services slated also and have 15-20 local businesses lined up for when they release the app. Aim is to get mainstream adoption in Spain before pushing it to wider Europe and then global.

Again, users need to hold the token to spend it but the longer they hold without spending, the more dividends they acquire, as well as receiving a share of all transactions proportionate to the percentage of their holdings.

Another registered company.

Yes, they are both small cap speculative investments but plenty of work has gone into developing real-world use cases that are capable of gaining mainstream adoption if the cards fall their way.

 

[Dylan82]

I'd love to see how cryptos hold up in a major world crisis. IE a multinational war involving major players.

Russia keeps playing their cards as they are and they will be forced to take up against GB, NATO and the EU. The major part being that the EU only really stands if it is willing to back its member states.

Also interesting to see how China maintains control of its economic system if debts are called or now with very few internal growth measures to improve quality of life for the masses whether it militarises the country or implodes from within.

They would soar in price. Fiat currencies would tank and the super wealthy would use cryptos as an alternative to gold that offers liquidity and can be easily manipulated.


I recently was involved in a "war gaming" simulation for forecasting possible future scenarios and industry preparedness.

One such scenario detailed an aggressive incursion by Russia into Ukraine followed by China using the opportunity of the West focusing on Europe to launch its own attack on Taiwan.

In the "best-case" outcomes (those that avoided nuclear conflict) Taiwan is annexed entirely by China and the Dneiper River effectively becomes the border between Russia and the rest of Europe. Global supply chains are upended, food production disrupted and hyperinflation rampant. The USA turns to authoritarianism and looks the other way in regard to blatant manipulation of markets by oligarchs. In this simulated dystopia, a single bitcoin was valued at over five million US dollars.

 

[Avalor]

Degropey, you just knew it. What a grub, and Collingwood have fallen to a new low.

 

[Biggie]

 

[MeltMan]

Degropey, you just knew it. What a grub, and Collingwood have fallen to a new low.

I dont actually know this story, but want to make a Jack Darling hold my beer meme regardless.

 

[WCErevival]

I recently was involved in a "war gaming" simulation for forecasting possible future scenarios and industry preparedness.