Reid - "Crows in middle of a 4 year rebuild."

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Scorpus

Sack Them All
Apr 16, 2014
38,604
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You’re just about the best hindsight poster on this board. How were Hampton and Menzel mediocre players when we traded for them? They didn’t turn out well here but both were supremely talented players and one was a first round pick. Both had shown decent form at AFL level that we were hoping would develop further in a new environment. It didn’t, sh*t happens.

Gibbs was traded in after we failed in the GF and were pushing for a flag. It’s a fail in hindsight but was the right decision at the time.

Don’t disagree with the rest but gee you love to pot decisions with the benefit of hindsight.
Hampton was speculative at best, he wasn't getting a game for GWS and had only shown flashes at AFL level. At no stage did he warrant a 3 year deal on decent coin. When we first got him I thought it was on a base wage contract, was shocked to hear of a larger deal

Menzel, well we didn't play him. Why give a contract to a player you're not prepared to play? Huge waste of money, this sort of disconnect between list management and coaching is part of the problem.

Gibbs, yes that's hindsight. Giving him a 4 year deal was stupid, as was continuing to trade for him a year later without adjusting our offer in any way
 

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King Elvis

Hall of Famer
Aug 13, 2006
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You’re just about the best hindsight poster on this board. How were Hampton and Menzel mediocre players when we traded for them? They didn’t turn out well here but both were supremely talented players and one was a first round pick. Both had shown decent form at AFL level that we were hoping would develop further in a new environment. It didn’t, sh*t happens.

Gibbs was traded in after we failed in the GF and were pushing for a flag. It’s a fail in hindsight but was the right decision at the time.

Don’t disagree with the rest but gee you love to pot decisions with the benefit of hindsight.
You're being extremely generous regarding Hampton and Menzel - both were worth a gamble, but that's all they were.
 

MRB37

Brownlow Medallist
May 17, 2009
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You're being extremely generous regarding Hampton and Menzel - both were worth a gamble, but that's all they were.
They had plenty of talent, but both had fatal flaws. Hampton couldn't stay healthy and Menzel had no ticker. It's why both were let go by their previous sides. At the point we were at they were fine gambles, but ultimately set us back when both failed.
 

WetCrow1991

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 23, 2016
9,059
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I get it now, we are half way through a rebuild!

The club has just decided to lower the bar. No longer aiming for finals, now we will aim to finish outside the bottom 4.
 

MrBarry

Team Captain
Apr 29, 2013
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I'd be very surprised if our mass exodus wasn't the reason a lot of these guys ended up on contracts that were "one year too long".

When you've got the whole football world getting stuck into you about players not wanting to be here, I think we overshot on a lot of people who were willing to sign purely because they were willing to sign.

"People don't wanna be here? Look, Sloane wants to be here for 4 more years."
Yes, this was painfully obvious at the time. Rather than take a tough stance, the club shat the bed.
 

Thetrader15

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 16, 2015
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Which 3?

Keath? Greenwood? CEY?

We still didn’t proactively trade them - they left for better offers.
They all left for offers that this board would have said in 2 years time were too long and were too much money.

Isn't that what everyone here is complaining about?

Jenkins, Walker , Sloane on too long and expensive contracts = BAD

CEY, Greenwood, Keath not offer long, expensive contracts = BAD
 

ltdamn

Club Legend
Nov 29, 2008
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What’s the current position on the draft, is there a risk of a lottery system if we don’t complete a certain number of games ? These are the things on my mind when I am on this forum whilst doing a poo.
I would say this is highly likely if the season needs to shut down prematurely, particularly if all teams haven't played the same number of games. Very low risk way for the AFL to trial this concept that they are a fan of and probably have only held off on because the expansion clubs and foundation VIC clubs would have lost out if they did. The chance to implement this in a low risk situation with a club who won't push back and no one will care is disadvantaged will be too tempting for them. You might think this needs to be in place before the season starts but we are talking about an organisation that changes the rules of the game every week, can't decide what jumpers clubs should wear when they play each other, and thought as recently as two weeks ago that interstate clubs would be playing in Melbourne this week.
 

Thetrader15

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 16, 2015
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Should have started half way through last year when many of our older players were regularly fading out in the 2nd halves.
No way man, "make the finals and anything can happen"! :rolleyes:

Remember, "our best was good enough last year, we just weren't playing it for long enough."

I'm glad we "backed the boys in."
 

1970crow

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Jun 7, 2011
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You’re just about the best hindsight poster on this board. How were Hampton and Menzel mediocre players when we traded for them? They didn’t turn out well here but both were supremely talented players and one was a first round pick. Both had shown decent form at AFL level that we were hoping would develop further in a new environment. It didn’t, sh*t happens.

Gibbs was traded in after we failed in the GF and were pushing for a flag. It’s a fail in hindsight but was the right decision at the time.

Don’t disagree with the rest but gee you love to pot decisions with the benefit of hindsight.
Hampton was playing 2s from memory and I'm pretty sure Menzel has been dropped during his final year with Carlton. Still, worthwhile punts I reckon as they both had talent. Really thought Hampton's best football would be as a running defender, but typical us, we only wanted him as an inside mid.
 

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1970crow

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Jun 7, 2011
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They all left for offers that this board would have said in 2 years time were too long and were too much money.

Isn't that what everyone here is complaining about?

Jenkins, Walker , Sloane on too long and expensive contracts = BAD

CEY, Greenwood, Keath not offer long, expensive contracts = BAD
Given their lack of battered bodies, I'd have been ok with Greenwood and Keath getting 3 year deals and CEY 2. If needed an extra year trigger clause wouldn't bother. We avoided one in a contending year by not playing Hendo in a final after a near BOG for us the week before. Avoiding a trigger clause when you're in the bottom 8 should be piss easy. But I'd have kept only 1 of Greenwood/CEY.

Tex's contract about right, he's just been playing injured for 2 seasons and we've destroyed him, that's just what we do. JJ was also ok, it's then contracting Lynch that was unnecessary, but that's resolved now. Sloane is the worst of them. We'd recently found out he was easy to tag out of a game and we ponied up for 5 years as if he was a Pendlebury type. I expect that he'll remain a handy player for 2-3 more years, but I doubt he's being paid handy player cash. But then salary cap shouldn't be a problem over his contract, so it probably doesn't matter anyway. Should be able to bring a heap forward so when we're needing to pay up to keep our next contending group, he'll be costing us SFA. And he's not the type to drop off having earned his coin.
 

King Elvis

Hall of Famer
Aug 13, 2006
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We had offers on the table for each of them. We weren't going to pay overs (in terms of time or $$$). THEY wanted to stay.

That’s exactly my point.


We didn’t proactively trade them out because we thought they had value - we let them go for unders because other teams came in over the top.
 

n4sir

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Feb 23, 2006
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As part of his interview with the Rooch, Chappy said this:

“So we are in a reset. We made that decision at the end of last year – we publicly said as much but perhaps we did not communicate it well enough.”

So according to our chairman the rebuild started a few months ago, it's far from being in the middle.

Add to that this little gem:

“We threw everything at 2017 and did not get the premiership,” Chapman said. “Then we backed the team to get the job done in 2018. And we made mistakes."

“People will point to list management. And they will do that with the benefit of hindsight. But that list management (under Justin Reid’s watch from 2015) put us in a grand final."

Good to see he is still trying to cover his butt while going in to bat for Roo's mates and rewriting history in the process, apparently willing to give credit for other people's work who already assembled about 90% of that team.

Change can't happen quickly enough from the very top down.

 

crows dude

Premiership Player
Jan 20, 2005
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We should be in the middle as 2018 should have been the start of it. 2012-2017 should have won 1-2 premierships. 2018 should have bee the next era starting building for 2021-20125 flags. Where now 3 years behind where we shoudl have been.
 

Samcro24

Suffering from BS Awareness
Oct 28, 2014
7,089
15,659
AFL Club
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As part of his interview with the Rooch, Chappy said this:

“So we are in a reset. We made that decision at the end of last year – we publicly said as much but perhaps we did not communicate it well enough.”

So according to our chairman the rebuild started a few months ago, it's far from being in the middle.

Add to that this little gem:

“We threw everything at 2017 and did not get the premiership,” Chapman said. “Then we backed the team to get the job done in 2018. And we made mistakes."

“People will point to list management. And they will do that with the benefit of hindsight. But that list management (under Justin Reid’s watch from 2015) put us in a grand final."

Good to see he is still trying to cover his butt while going in to bat for Roo's mates and rewriting history in the process, apparently willing to give credit for other people's work who already assembled about 90% of that team.

Change can't happen quickly enough from the very top down.

 

King Elvis

Hall of Famer
Aug 13, 2006
47,624
41,549
SA
AFL Club
Adelaide
As part of his interview with the Rooch, Chappy said this:

“So we are in a reset. We made that decision at the end of last year – we publicly said as much but perhaps we did not communicate it well enough.”

So according to our chairman the rebuild started a few months ago, it's far from being in the middle.

Add to that this little gem:

“We threw everything at 2017 and did not get the premiership,” Chapman said. “Then we backed the team to get the job done in 2018. And we made mistakes."

“People will point to list management. And they will do that with the benefit of hindsight. But that list management (under Justin Reid’s watch from 2015) put us in a grand final."

Good to see he is still trying to cover his butt while going in to bat for Roo's mates and rewriting history in the process, apparently willing to give credit for other people's work who already assembled about 90% of that team.

Change can't happen quickly enough from the very top down.

He is so full of sh*t.
 

Vader

Sith Lord
Oct 14, 2005
43,373
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We should be in the middle as 2018 should have been the start of it. 2012-2017 should have won 1-2 premierships. 2018 should have bee the next era starting building for 2021-20125 flags. Where now 3 years behind where we shoudl have been.
So... you want to start a rebuild when we're sitting 7th on the ladder, with a 6-4 record (after R10 2018)? :drunk:

That's the thing with 20/20 hindsight. We know now that this was the turning point, and the beginning of the end. It was far from obvious at R10 2018.

It wasn't even obvious at the end of 2018, given that many people (including myself) thought that the latter half of 2018 was the result of a Burton-created injury streak, and that we could return to being competitive in 2019 if we had a better run with injuries.

Even at R13 2019, we were still sitting 4th with an 8-5 record. There were cracks beginning to show, but the true horror show had not yet begun.

At what point did it become truly obvious that the party was over, and that a full rebuild was required? Probably around R16-17 2019, when the players had clearly given up and were refusing to play at all after half-time.

While we can see now, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, that the jig was up in 2018, that's information which just wasn't available to the club going through it in real-time. For those going through it in real-time, not looking back through the prism of history, it really only became apparent around 2/3 of the way through 2019.
 

Tex200

Cancelled
Dec 24, 2008
19,541
38,979
Adelaide
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You’re just about the best hindsight poster on this board. How were Hampton and Menzel mediocre players when we traded for them? They didn’t turn out well here but both were supremely talented players and one was a first round pick. Both had shown decent form at AFL level that we were hoping would develop further in a new environment. It didn’t, sh*t happens.

Gibbs was traded in after we failed in the GF and were pushing for a flag. It’s a fail in hindsight but was the right decision at the time.

Don’t disagree with the rest but gee you love to pot decisions with the benefit of hindsight.
Plenty weren’t happy with those trades, I was certainly one that was vocal on all 3 of them and Seed.

Wasn’t really rocket science. They’d all played about 30-40 odd games, couldn’t establish themselves in crap teams and were playing reserves regularly. Seed a possible exception as Collingwood were competitive at least.

Menzel and Hampton were rubbish to distract from the Danger trade debacle

Could never understand the excitement.
 

1970crow

Hall of Famer
Jun 7, 2011
35,935
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We're not really rebuilding, we're chasing wins whilst playing the oldest possible side less Gibbs and Knight. Gibbs proved himself not AFL quality last year and Knight has played his fair share of 2s when fit.
 

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