Reid - "Crows in middle of a 4 year rebuild."

[1970crow]

I think the role of a List Manager is to almost constantly be in a rebuild and thinking three to four years ahead. Regardless the guy wants to keep his job and professional reputation so was never going to admit he let the list hit rock bottom and is now starting again.

Logically the Football Strategy (FS) committee would be responsible for setting the direction of the List Management (LM) committee. FS would consider the question; Where are we at, are we contending? They would then direct LM based upon what answer they arrive at. LM then get together and discuss what decisions to make based upon that direction. LM are still responsible for awful decisions based on player ratings, who gets contracts and for what value and how long. So when FS says keep going, we're contending, that doesn't give LM a pass for the decisions that they make within that direction, ie over-contracting JJ and Lynch, overpaying for Gibbs etc. But it's time to;

1) cease blaming Justin Read because his job is mostly to execute the decisions of a committee, although he would be a part of that committee.
2) cease blaming the List Management committee, because they implement the direction provided them by the Football Strategy committee.

Argue the individual decisions for sure. But the reason that we find ourselves where we are, both list wise and footy dept staff wise is because this is where our Football Strategy committee has led us to. And is it any wonder when that committee includes Chapman, Fagan and the financial controller. That tells you all you need to know about how decisions are geared when they are being made at that level. And the answer is very, very simple. It's all about maximising revenue in the now and minimising costs in perpetuity. And that's why there's such a heavy representation of purely numbers people.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I'm glad I took the $60 option this year, this club doesn't deserve my money.

Yeah with the heavy stuff you've been dealing with lately, I don't blame you for not having time to deal with Adelaide's bullshit.

 

[ltdamn]

At best this is year 1 of 5, assuming we draft 2-3 future 150 game players each year for the next 4 years and ensure they are all between 60-120 games at the beginning of season 2025.

This is also the reason why other clubs have better retention than we do - they draft players in large numbers that ensure they have a consistent age profile on their list.

 

[WetCrow1991]

$60 option was big dick energy option.

We're in year 1 of a rebuild being conducted by Mongo from Blazing Saddles. This rebuild will go as well as the Hollywood Western film genre after the release of Blazing Saddles.

Prove me wrong Mongo, prove me wrong.

 

[Vader]

That's not the claim. It's sheer happenstance that we have invested in the draft in the last 2 years. He's not claiming that they started the rebuild at the 2018 draft. He even makes it clear that the trigger to play the kids was being 22:22 over the 44 games. There's no suggestion at all that they started prior to this year. The drafting and rebuild realisation are independent events in his context.

They clearly drew a line at the end of 2019, which is why we sent so many players packing at the end of last year. Selection policy this year has also been markedly different from previous years, with players like Gibbs/Mackay/Hartigan not selected if there was a viable young alternative (e.g. McAsey), and Mrouch/Seed dropped due to poor form.

The only question is whether they should be including 2018 in the discussion? I'll have a bob each way on that debate. We did keep all of our draft picks, and selected 4x ND and 2x RD players (plus renewing Hunter via the RD), but we didn't really turn over as much of our list as we could/should have done.

 

[Vader]

At best this is year 1 of 5, assuming we draft 2-3 future 150 game players each year for the next 4 years and ensure they are all between 60-120 games at the beginning of season 2025.

This is also the reason why other clubs have better retention than we do - they draft players in large numbers that ensure they have a consistent age profile on their list.

A full rebuild typically takes 7 years, between start of rebuild and when the team returns to the ring of "contenders".

 

[King Elvis]

Even if he did say that we're "in the middle of a 4 year rebuild" are we really so pedantic to assume that means we're exactly half way through a process? "In the middle of" something is such a common idiom.

One of the massive problems with the AFC of late is their inconsistent and inaccurate communication and PR strategy. Stop making excuses for this kind of stuff.

If he didn't mean what he said, then he should not have said it.

 

[King Elvis]

Kablamo!

What people are failing to see is that statement alone clearly indicates the starting point of the implementation of this strategy. They didn't look at their list coming out of the 2017 GF and say ok lets rejuvenate the list now. In fact by their selection policy its quite clear it was the furthest thing from their minds!

Whats happened is they have a created strategy last offseason based on the aforementioned win-loss performance indicator of the previous 2 seasons, and are retro-actively including draftees from the last 2 draft classes as key components of that strategy in order to execute it immediately and into the future.

Its really not that complex people

Exactly.

If this was a genuine rebuild, and not just a total *-up, we would've traded out players with currency and attacked the last couple of Drafts (especially the SA loaded one) with every piece of currency we had. Instead, we actually had good currency, pissed it away, and let Port run circles around us.

Reivisionist crap from these incompetent clowns.

 

[King Elvis]

They clearly drew a line at the end of 2019, which is why we sent so many players packing at the end of last year. Selection policy this year has also been markedly different from previous years, with players like Gibbs/Mackay/Hartigan not selected if there was a viable young alternative (e.g. McAsey), and Mrouch/Seed dropped due to poor form.

Was this by choice or forced though?

We had so many burned/destroyed relationships in the Club, did we let anybody go except them, and the super obvious ones?

 

[MRB37]

Exactly.

If this was a genuine rebuild, and not just a total fu**-up, we would've traded out players with currency and attacked the last couple of Drafts (especially the SA loaded one) with every piece of currency we had. Instead, we actually had good currency, pissed it away, and let Port run circles around us.

Reivisionist crap from these incompetent clowns.

If simply going to the draft means you're rebuilding then nearly every team is.

You can argue this year was the start because of how many senior blokes we moved on, but there is absolutely nothing from the 2019 season that can be argued as having anything to do with a rebuild. It was a desperate attempt to scrape into the 8 with nothing but short term thinking without a care to 2020 or beyond.

 

[Scorpus]

If simply going to the draft means you're rebuilding then nearly every team is.

You can argue this year was the start because of how many senior blokes we moved on, but there is absolutely nothing from the 2019 season that can be argued as having anything to do with a rebuild. It was a desperate attempt to scrape into the 8 with nothing but short term thinking without a care to 2020 or beyond.

We didn't decide to rebuild at any point during the 2019 season, it was clearly made after the season was complete

Just have to look at round 23 selections

 

[Cap]

"When you do a rebuild, you should do a rebuild with some experience so they can lead the way so they don't get flogged," he said.

That's a direct quote from this article.

https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/6801588/crows-should-expect-more-pain-ricciuto/?cs=9321

If you ignore the posters whose default position is not believing a word the club says the clubs rebuild strategy is play youth with experienced players

"At the moment, for whatever reason - whether it's confidence, whether it's the new game plan, whether it's the midfield adjusting to a new ruckman or whether they're just out of form - those players aren't playing near 100 per cent.

So firstly, the notion of free fall or no plan is debunked, there was a plan, albeit one that as of 5 games hasn't worked well.

It also confirms why we didn't just trade anyone away with value, they want experience at the club, it appears apart from Jenkins, if you could get a better offer good luck, so there was not much fight to keep uncontracted players.

 

[FR0GGY]

Finishing bottom halfway through a rebuild is such a Carlton thing to do.

 

[Cap]

Finishing bottom halfway through a rebuild is such a Carlton thing to do.

Trying to rebuild with experience and be 0-5 is a Crows thing to do

 

[Thetrader15]

That's a direct quote from this article.

https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/6801588/crows-should-expect-more-pain-ricciuto/?cs=9321

If you ignore the posters whose default position is not believing a word the club says the clubs rebuild strategy is;



So firstly, the notion of free fall or no plan is debunked, there was a plan, albeit one that as of 5 games hasn't worked well.

It also confirms why we didn't just trade anyone away with value, they want experience at the club, it appears apart from Jenkins, if you could get a better offer good luck, so there was not much fight to keep uncontracted players.

The list decisions were all correct. We moved on OOC fringe players over 25, except 400k.

Keeping Brad gives the option of a FA compo.

Keath was a reasonable pick and gives McAsey games, as well a cap space.

The others weren't best 22

 

[Captain Morgan]

What’s the current position on the draft, is there a risk of a lottery system if we don’t complete a certain number of games ? These are the things on my mind when I am on this forum whilst doing a poo.

 

[Kezza86]

What’s the current position on the draft, is there a risk of a lottery system if we don’t complete a certain number of games ? These are the things on my mind when I am on this forum whilst doing a poo.

Highly unlikely as this would have been mentioned before the season started.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Highly unlikely as this would have been mentioned before the season started.

What me thinking on the shitter or the draft ?

I’m finished now by the way so all good.

 

[jenny61_99]

Was this by choice or forced though?

We had so many burned/destroyed relationships in the Club, did we let anybody go except them, and the super obvious ones?

At least three of those that went wanted to stay. We wouldn’t offer theM, the length of contract they wanted.

 

[FR0GGY]

At least three of those that went wanted to stay. We wouldn’t offer theM, the length of contract they wanted.

Then we’ve contracted players like Jenkins, walker, Gibbs and even sloane, to contracts that are well past their used by dates.
We are not having a great time in the list management department in the last few years.

 

[jenny61_99]

Then we’ve contracted players like Jenkins, walker, Gibbs and even sloane, to contracts that are well past their used by dates.
We are not having a great time in the list management department in the last few years.

I can see why they gave them longer contracts (because we’d been losing players, so let’s tie them up for longer!). It was damned if they did damned if they didn’t Type situation. Jenkins off the back of a big year. Tex and Sloane for their loyalty and * knows why they did to Gibbs!

 

[Thetrader15]

Then we’ve contracted players like Jenkins, walker, Gibbs and even sloane, to contracts that are well past their used by dates.
We are not having a great time in the list management department in the last few years.

Jenkins signed a 5 year deal in 2016 off the back of a few 60 goal years, plus we were a regular finals club. We thought we were going to be at the pointy end for the next 3 or 4 years, so the contract made sense. Plus, it was 'only 550k' and he was only 27, hardly past his prime!

Walker signed in in 2017 as captain, having just been voted the best captain by the AFLPA, and would get that again thatbyear. He also signed on the shuffle cap space. Not to mention he had averaged 55 goals a year for the last 3.

They were all good list decisions at the time, the fact we screwed ourselves with injuries and The Camp 🌩 had nothing to do with list mamagement

 

[Vhaluus]

I can see why they gave them longer contracts (because we’d been losing players, so let’s tie them up for longer!). It was damned if they did damned if they didn’t Type situation. Jenkins off the back of a big year. Tex and Sloane for their loyalty and fu** knows why they did to Gibbs!

They had the chance to tie Jenkins up for cheap earlier in the year but screwed around and tried to play games. He had a good year so they panicked and offered him more money and more years than he was ever worth.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I can see why they gave them longer contracts (because we’d been losing players, so let’s tie them up for longer!). It was damned if they did damned if they didn’t Type situation. Jenkins off the back of a big year. Tex and Sloane for their loyalty and fu** knows why they did to Gibbs!

I’d dare say his former manager in Reid was influential ..... a bad call by Reid

But we were in the window .... the lesson being, that a long standing player at a s**t club has learnt too many bad habits to change at 29yo

 

[Golumless]

I can see why they gave them longer contracts (because we’d been losing players, so let’s tie them up for longer!). It was damned if they did damned if they didn’t Type situation. Jenkins off the back of a big year. Tex and Sloane for their loyalty and fu** knows why they did to Gibbs!

Jenkins wasn't a damned if you do, damned if you do. Jenkins was a "don't do it".

Tex and Sloane - fine, they were performing well and this side was built around them. Gibbs was a gamble, sometimes you lose.