Relocation and Mergers rumoured to be back in the news!!!

[exxcessivve]

And on what basis is North in trouble? North's troubles are more seeded in it's playing group including those who dropped the ball this season while in the main there are aging players who were carrying ongoing injuries where there was likely no good long term prospect for full recovery (take Majak Daw and Ben Brown as cases in point). The club has made the call to bite the bullet and to do an unprecedented eleven player cleanout. By clearing away some of their injured big name players they clear the books to free up monies to target new players.

Consider that North have no debt where as St Kilda is carrying about $10 million, both clubs have had similar membership numbers for years, and while North had a bad year this year in what was a trying and an exceptionally unusual season for all teams, don't forget that only last year North turned around an horrific seasonal start under Brad Scott switching coaches to Reese Shaw only to miss making the final 8 on percentage. Where did Saint Kilda finish last year? It seems that the Saints made the finals this year for the first time after years of big talking and false promises at the start of each season only for their seasons to consistently collapse in a heap of disappointment to their members and supporters. Consider, when did they win their last Premiership? Hmmm ... 54 years ago.

As for Tassie, before any team permanently parks itself down there, Hawthorn might have something to say about that. There's no room in Tassie for a permanent team and the Hawks. The Hawks have a very cosy financial and membership arrangement down there getting paid $4 million per year in sponsorship from Tourism Tasmania and having developed 9,000 Tasmanian members. Do you reckon that they'll give that up without a fight?

The Suns ... are likely to remain a "special case" as long as they remain in the Gold Coast. Truth is that there just isn't the hunger or passion for sport there. Half the permanent population are retires. It's a black hole for sporting franchises, and even with the Ex-pat Victorians that live there, many of those have either established club allegiances or left Victoria because they hated the constant bombardment of the news and TV with AFL. The Suns would definitely do better being relocated to either Townsville or Cairns, but that's not likely to happen as the AFL have $125 million invested in the Gold Coast in just stadium alone so the AFL will no doubt continue to bankroll their manufactured club well into the 2030's and even by then, the Suns will likely have built a support base of 15,000 members.

Great until the final paragraph. That’s a really solid rebuttal of the comments made about NMFC, especially by the StK fan.

 

[Percy2257]

And on what basis is North in trouble? North's troubles are more seeded in it's playing group including those who dropped the ball this season while in the main there are aging players who were carrying ongoing injuries where there was likely no good long term prospect for full recovery (take Majak Daw and Ben Brown as cases in point). The club has made the call to bite the bullet and to do an unprecedented eleven player cleanout. By clearing away some of their injured big name players they clear the books to free up monies to target new players.

Consider that North have no debt where as St Kilda is carrying about $10 million, both clubs have had similar membership numbers for years, and while North had a bad year this year in what was a trying and an exceptionally unusual season for all teams, don't forget that only last year North turned around an horrific seasonal start under Brad Scott switching coaches to Reese Shaw only to miss making the final 8 on percentage. Where did Saint Kilda finish last year? It seems that the Saints made the finals this year for the first time after years of big talking and false promises at the start of each season only for their seasons to consistently collapse in a heap of disappointment to their members and supporters. Consider, when did they win their last Premiership? Hmmm ... 54 years ago.

As for Tassie, before any team permanently parks itself down there, Hawthorn might have something to say about that. There's no room in Tassie for a permanent team and the Hawks. The Hawks have a very cosy financial and membership arrangement down there getting paid $4 million per year in sponsorship from Tourism Tasmania and having developed 9,000 Tasmanian members. Do you reckon that they'll give that up without a fight?

The Suns ... are likely to remain a "special case" as long as they remain in the Gold Coast. Truth is that there just isn't the hunger or passion for sport there. Half the permanent population are retires. It's a black hole for sporting franchises, and even with the Ex-pat Victorians that live there, many of those have either established club allegiances or left Victoria because they hated the constant bombardment of the news and TV with AFL. The Suns would definitely do better being relocated to either Townsville or Cairns, but that's not likely to happen as the AFL have $125 million invested in the Gold Coast in just stadium alone so the AFL will no doubt continue to bankroll their manufactured club well into the 2030's and even by then, the Suns will likely have built a support base of 15,000 members.

Hey RooHal, why are North in trouble? Because that vibe is so persistent.
Lets assume they have to merge. Ok. Why not merge with Carlton?
First, we are geographica neighbours.
Two, even if Carlton is thought to be the superior club; Carlton has not beaten you in a GF but North beat us in 99.
Third, the respective colours are superb and very complimentary. One can be worn one week and the other the next week.
Fourth, we can plausibly be known as the Carlton Kangaroos.
Fifth, we have so many celebrated former players we can gather under one roof.
Sixth, as an amalgamated club we can occupy Tasmania as their preferred club.
Why disagree?

 

[Roogal]

Hey RooHal, why are North in trouble? Because that vibe is so persistent.
Lets assume they have to merge. Ok. Why not merge with Carlton?
First, we are geographica neighbours.
Two, even if Carlton is thought to be the superior club; Carlton has not beaten you in a GF but North beat us in 99.
Third, the respective colours are superb and very complimentary. One can be worn one week and the other the next week.
Fourth, we can plausibly be known as the Carlton Kangaroos.
Fifth, we have so many celebrated former players we can gather under one roof.
Sixth, as an amalgamated club we can occupy Tasmania as their preferred club.
Why disagree?

Why do they have to merge? Why does any AFL team have to merge? I have clarified this point strongly a few pages back. As long as teams are financially viable, and North and the Western Bulldogs besides being similar size clubs both have no debt. They both collect sponsorship for playing home games away from Marvel Stadium in Hobart and Ballarat respectively. That's an established business plan for clubs that have smaller membership bases. Consider that the Hawks were on the ropes 20 years ago and took up the Launceston offer, but nobody ever suggested that they relocate.

When Fitzroy folded, they were totally on their knees. They were broke, their membership had collapsed, they hadn't won a flag in five decades, and their old home ground at the Junction oval had been abandoned and they were being shunted from ground to ground around Melbourne. That was 1995 when Melbourne had 3.2 million people and Adelaide had 1.1 million. Anybody that argues that Melbourne, a city of 5.1 million people today, cannot support 9 teams is full of it. Melbourne will have over 6 million by 2030. Adelaide with a quarter of the population somehow muddles by supporting two teams. Even Geelong, with 245,000 people somehow manages to support its own team.

So really, "merge" ... is that all ya got? Pffft!

 

[Elite Pete]

How much money are the ‘smaller’ vic teams getting topped up with?

 

[Elite Pete]

Does the AFL think the money they give the smaller Vic teams help with the growth of TV rights as much as GWS and Gold Coast might in the future? I highly doubt it. I think it’s a matter of time before the Vic teams are decreased to be way or another.

If you look at the AFL distribution it’s clear WA would be the candidate of you need to bring in for teams to get back to 18 clubs (tv rights deal). They get nearly the least of the AFL hand outs and alot of it is travel money.

I think the Tassie and Hawks deal is finished next year. I would suggest a Tassie team would be more self reliant than your North, WB and Saints are. I’m sure the AFL would be running the numbers.

 

[PumpyChowdown]

If North and Melbourne folded / relocated we’d have no clubs in the AFL with “Melbourne” in the name. This can’t happen

Merge the St. Kilda Saints with the Melbourne Demons to create the Melbourne City Angels.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Pridham has called for a root and branch independent review of the AFL from the Commission down. This would include consideration of a reduction in the number of teams. There is some support from other Presidents.

Stay tuned.

 

[Gavstar]

My understanding is that in 2021 both the North and Hawks deals run out with the Tas govt.

I think the Tas Govt preference would be that instead of this being split amongst 2 teams it would go to one team who would have 9 games in Tas (maybe to become a Tasmanian team in the long term?).

2 pre-season (if such a thing exists) and 7 in Home and away split between Launceston (larger capacity) and Hobart (smaller capacity for now).

Those games could be a mix of home and away games against the non-Melbourne clubs (eg home games for GWS + Gold Coast + two others on a rotating basis).

North and the Saints would be the obvious candidates for Melbourne teams (lowest home attendances).

A $7M/year in sponsorship + building a 7 game/year home ground advantage would look pretty attractive in the current economic climate?

Would Hawks or Blues be interested maybe? They'd have to balance out what does that $1M game/+ gates receipts look like in TAS vs Costs of Docklands with a small crowd vs Gold Coast/GWS etc

Might take some rebranding for Gold Coast and GWS to do it as unlike the Saints or North they would need to build a supporter base in Tas.

Anyway interesting times.

PS there would be reduced bang for bucks for Melbourne based members so many may want to pay less for memberships may also need to go in the economic calculations.

 

[mikedaicos35]

If this true hopefully this is part of a shift to refocus on the integrity of the competition.

The first key to integrity is a home and away fixture. True home and away is:
MCG tenants play interstate teams @ MCG
Vic clubs play each interstate team away
Vic clubs play Geelong at Kardinia Park
Rich, Coll, Ess get a turn in Tas v Hawks

What makes this possible is less teams in Melbourne. Melbourne teams should be:
Richmond (MCG)
Collingwood (MCG)
Hawthorn (MCG)
Essendon (Marvel)
North Western Blues (Marvel)
Geelong (KP)

This means 14 teams and a 26 round season. WB and Carlton a little stiff but had to get to 6 Vic Teams.

If we could then allow the AFL owned interstate clubs to vote freely there would be an 8-6 advantage in votes to interstate smashing the Vic centric view and allowing the league to become for all Australians not Vic first and all others second.

I agree Carlton must go

 

[Gavstar]

I agree Carlton must go

Nah, I'd be ranking the teams to stay based on Premierships won!

 

[Roylion]

Pridham has called for a root and branch independent review of the AFL from the Commission down. This would include consideration of a reduction in the number of teams.

There was broad support for the reduction of clubs during the 80's from clubs, but when it came to the crunch, there was one relocation, no mergers, one expulsion and four admissions in 15 years of constant discussions, proposals and speculation.

 

[Atomboy]

North set to announce a profit this year, gee the haters are going to hate that with a passion.

 

[Atomboy]

My understanding is that in 2021 both the North and Hawks deals run out with the Tas govt.

I think the Tas Govt preference would be that instead of this being split amongst 2 teams it would go to one team who would have 9 games in Tas (maybe to become a Tasmanian team in the long term?).

2 pre-season (if such a thing exists) and 7 in Home and away split between Launceston (larger capacity) and Hobart (smaller capacity for now).

Those games could be a mix of home and away games against the non-Melbourne clubs (eg home games for GWS + Gold Coast + two others on a rotating basis).

North and the Saints would be the obvious candidates for Melbourne teams (lowest home attendances).

A $7M/year in sponsorship + building a 7 game/year home ground advantage would look pretty attractive in the current economic climate?

Would Hawks or Blues be interested maybe? They'd have to balance out what does that $1M game/+ gates receipts look like in TAS vs Costs of Docklands with a small crowd vs Gold Coast/GWS etc

Might take some rebranding for Gold Coast and GWS to do it as unlike the Saints or North they would need to build a supporter base in Tas.

Anyway interesting times.

PS there would be reduced bang for bucks for Melbourne based members so many may want to pay less for memberships may also need to go in the economic calculations.

Why would they want to freeze Hawthorn out of Tassie ?.

They have done an awesome job to date when clubs like the Saints have just cut and run.

 

[jwikked]

Pridham has called for a root and branch independent review of the AFL from the Commission down. This would include consideration of a reduction in the number of teams. There is some support from other Presidents.

Stay tuned.

Great, if he wants to cut the teams down they can start with the Swans. Don't advocate for it unless you'll put your own team forward to be killed.

 

[Bellablue]

I’ve heard that within the AFL their preference is St Kilda & Bulldogs merge and North permanently move to Tassie. I hope that’s wrong as I’d hope Bulldogs can survive on their own accord.

 

[hansie]

I’ve heard that within the AFL their preference is St Kilda & Bulldogs merge and North permanently move to Tassie. I hope that’s wrong as I’d hope Bulldogs can survive on their own accord.

So where would the next expansion be? Tassie is clearly next in line but if they get the Kangas down there that’s ticked off so why merge st Kilda and dogs then? Given the commitment to the 18 teams/9 games. Would next be the NT? Joondalup?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Roylion]

I’ve heard that within the AFL their preference is St Kilda & Bulldogs merge and North permanently move to Tassie.

Heard from who?

 

[lewdogs]

Heard from who?

That bullshit text message most likely.

 

[kranky al]

You're right, it would need to be four teams merging into two new sides - otherwise it would stuff up the fixture.

There could be eight Melbourne clubs merge into four to get the same results too, even numbers.

Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Hawthorn, Melbourne, North, Richmond, St Kilda, Bulldogs

Pick the most powerful club, exclude that.

Then pair up a struggling club with a slightly more powerful club.

Oh we're from bulldog-land
A fighting fury
We're from bulldog-land
In any weather you will see us with a grin
Risking head and shin
If we're behind then never mind
We'll fight and fight and win
For we're from bulldog-land
We never weaken til the final siren's gone
Like the bulldog of old
We're strong and we're bold
For we're from bulldog
Yellow and Blue
We're from bulldog-land

 

[kranky al]

Why do they have to merge? Why does any AFL team have to merge? I have clarified this point strongly a few pages back. As long as teams are financially viable, and North and the Western Bulldogs besides being similar size clubs both have no debt. They both collect sponsorship for playing home games away from Marvel Stadium in Hobart and Ballarat respectively. That's an established business plan for clubs that have smaller membership bases. Consider that the Hawks were on the ropes 20 years ago and took up the Launceston offer, but nobody ever suggested that they relocate.

When Fitzroy folded, they were totally on their knees. They were broke, their membership had collapsed, they hadn't won a flag in five decades, and their old home ground at the Junction oval had been abandoned and they were being shunted from ground to ground around Melbourne. That was 1995 when Melbourne had 3.2 million people and Adelaide had 1.1 million. Anybody that argues that Melbourne, a city of 5.1 million people today, cannot support 9 teams is full of it. Melbourne will have over 6 million by 2030. Adelaide with a quarter of the population somehow muddles by supporting two teams. Even Geelong, with 245,000 people somehow manages to support its own team.

So really, "merge" ... is that all ya got? Pffft!

blithely ignoring the afl distribution which favours you by around 8 million a year.

if all clubs got the same you would be broke in a few years.

 

[Roogal]

blithely ignoring the afl distribution which favours you by around 8 million a year.

if all clubs got the same you would be broke in a few years.

Garbage! All clubs get the same dispersement, it's hardly a handout. As a member of NMFC (which you are not) I get a copy of theclubs financial report every year and I know where every cent comes from. Riddle me this ... If North are such a basket case then how is it that they can operate on $42 million per year without gaming revenue and turn a slight profit when many of the other more bigger clubs are carrying millions in debt?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

If the AFL were serious about developing in QLD they would have set up on the sunny coast instead of Gold Coast. SIGNIFICANTLY MORE ground swell of support than down south.

How on earth can you live in Queensland and believe this nonsense? In terms of football heritage, talent and grassroots support the Gold Coast massively outweighs the Sunshine Coast, even before we bring population, facilities and corporate support into the argument. The Sunshine Coast hasn't yet produced a club the size of Broadbeach, let alone Southport.

 

[PandaG]

And on what basis is North in trouble? North's troubles are more seeded in it's playing group including those who dropped the ball this season while in the main there are aging players who were carrying ongoing injuries where there was likely no good long term prospect for full recovery (take Majak Daw

28

Majak Daw

Age

33

Ht

195cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

D/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.3

2star

K

5.7

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

3.7

4star

T

2.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.2

2star

K

5.8

3star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.0

4star

and Ben Brown

50

Ben Brown

Age

31

Ht

200cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

2.2

5star

D

7.9

2star

K

6.3

3star

HB

1.6

1star

M

3.7

4star

T

0.9

2star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.2

4star

as cases in point). The club has made the call to bite the bullet and to do an unprecedented eleven player cleanout. By clearing away some of their injured big name players they clear the books to free up monies to target new players with better long term potential.

Consider that North have no debt where as St Kilda is carrying about $10 million, both clubs have had similar membership numbers for years, and while North had a bad year this year in what was a trying and an exceptionally unusual season for all teams, don't forget that only last year North turned around an horrific seasonal start under Brad Scott

Brad Scott

Age

47

Ht

191cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.6

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

12.6

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

4.8

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.8

4star

switching coaches to Reese Shaw only to miss making the final 8 on percentage. Where did Saint Kilda finish last year? It seems that the Saints made the finals this year for the first time after years of big talking and false promises at the start of each season only for their seasons to consistently collapse in a heap of disappointment to their members and supporters. Consider, when did they win their last Premiership? Hmmm ... 54 years ago.

As for Tassie, before any team permanently parks itself down there, Hawthorn might have something to say about that. There's no room in Tassie for a permanent team and the Hawks. The Hawks have a very cosy financial and membership arrangement down there getting paid $4 million per year in sponsorship from Tourism Tasmania and having developed 9,000 Tasmanian members. Do you reckon that they'll give that up without a fight?

The Suns ... are likely to remain a "special case" as long as they remain in the Gold Coast. Truth is that there just isn't the hunger or passion for sport there. Gold Coast just wants an AFL team because they just like having everything that Victoria has in Queensland (except its Corona Virus infected population). The Gold Coast cannot be considered a real city in the traditional sense of the word. It is nothing more than a holiday destination consisting of a long cluster of beach highrises, a few scattered shopping malls, night clubs, theme parks, an airport on its border with NSW and a hospital. It has no CBD, heartland or epicentre. Consider that half its permanent population are retirees. It's a black hole for sporting franchises, and even with the Ex-pat Victorians that live there, many of those have either established club allegiances or they left Victoria because they hated the constant bombardment of the news and TV with AFL. The Suns would definitely do better being relocated to either Townsville or Cairns, but that's not likely to happen as the AFL have $125 million invested in the Gold Coast in just the stadium alone not to mention what they are subsidising the club each year so the AFL will no doubt continue to bankroll their manufactured club well into the 2030's and even by then, the Suns will likely have built a support base of 15,000 members.

Having no coach or players is a little bit worrying but I’m not footy manager.

 

[Roogal]

Having no coach or players is a little bit worrying but I’m not footy manager.

LOL ... and they haven't been in better shape all year.

But no, on a serious note we understand that Rhyce Shaw

Rhyce Shaw

Age

42

Ht

182cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.8

4star

K

12.0

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

313.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.4

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

1.6

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.8

3star

's pending departure is on family concerns and has and nothing to do with the club's recently announced re-build of the player list. The clean out of players which was announced a few weeks ago would not have occurred without his concurrence.

The reality is that North soldiered on with an ageing list up until 2016 when they first retired a swag of ageing stars. The newer players recruited to replace them have have had mixed fortunes and haven't really fired. Brad Scott

Brad Scott

Age

47

Ht

191cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.6

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

12.6

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

4.8

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.8

4star

should never have had his last contract extension, and the nature his departure mid-season last year left a big psychological scar on the players and I would say the coaching staff to some extent. On has to consider that they've largely been a victim of the team's mediocrity over the last 15 years. When you finish in the middle of the ladder season after season, the draft picks do a club no favours as Melbourne, St Kilda and even the Bulldogs can attest to that.

Further, despite North being cashed to Max to offer some pretty big name players big money to come to the club, those players in recent times have chose lower offers to stay at Collingwood, Richmond and the GWS. Even Paul Roos declined a very generous offer last year to coach the team. So who knows? It clearly isn't seen as a destination club by either players or coaches at present. I suspect that moving it anywhere else away from Arden Street would make it even less attractive.

Something has to give, but moving or merging them isn't the solution because their support and membership base in Victoria would completely collapse.

 

[PandaG]

And on what basis is North in trouble? North's troubles are more seeded in it's playing group including those who dropped the ball this season while in the main there are aging players who were carrying ongoing injuries where there was likely no good long term prospect for full recovery (take Majak Daw

28

Majak Daw

Age

33

Ht

195cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

D/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.3

2star

K

5.7

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

3.7

4star

T

2.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.2

2star

K

5.8

3star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.0

4star

and Ben Brown

50

Ben Brown

Age

31

Ht

200cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

2.2

5star

D

7.9

2star

K

6.3

3star

HB

1.6

1star

M

3.7

4star

T

0.9

2star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.2

4star

as cases in point). The club has made the call to bite the bullet and to do an unprecedented eleven player cleanout. By clearing away some of their injured big name players they clear the books to free up monies to target new players with better long term potential.

Consider that North have no debt where as St Kilda is carrying about $10 million, both clubs have had similar membership numbers for years, and while North had a bad year this year in what was a trying and an exceptionally unusual season for all teams, don't forget that only last year North turned around an horrific seasonal start under Brad Scott

Brad Scott

Age

47

Ht

191cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.6

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

12.6

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

4.8

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.8

4star

switching coaches to Reese Shaw only to miss making the final 8 on percentage. Where did Saint Kilda finish last year? It seems that the Saints made the finals this year for the first time after years of big talking and false promises at the start of each season only for their seasons to consistently collapse in a heap of disappointment to their members and supporters. Consider, when did they win their last Premiership? Hmmm ... 54 years ago.

As for Tassie, before any team permanently parks itself down there, Hawthorn might have something to say about that. There's no room in Tassie for a permanent team and the Hawks. The Hawks have a very cosy financial and membership arrangement down there getting paid $4 million per year in sponsorship from Tourism Tasmania and having developed 9,000 Tasmanian members. Do you reckon that they'll give that up without a fight?

The Suns ... are likely to remain a "special case" as long as they remain in the Gold Coast. Truth is that there just isn't the hunger or passion for sport there. Gold Coast just wants an AFL team because they just like having everything that Victoria has in Queensland (except its Corona Virus infected population). The Gold Coast cannot be considered a real city in the traditional sense of the word. It is nothing more than a holiday destination consisting of a long cluster of beach highrises, a few scattered shopping malls, night clubs, theme parks, an airport on its border with NSW and a hospital. It has no CBD, heartland or epicentre. Consider that half its permanent population are retirees. It's a black hole for sporting franchises, and even with the Ex-pat Victorians that live there, many of those have either established club allegiances or they left Victoria because they hated the constant bombardment of the news and TV with AFL. The Suns would definitely do better being relocated to either Townsville or Cairns, but that's not likely to happen as the AFL have $125 million invested in the Gold Coast in just the stadium alone not to mention what they are subsidising the club each year so the AFL will no doubt continue to bankroll their manufactured club well into the 2030's and even by then, the Suns will likely have built a support base of 15,000 members.

10,000 member differential between saints an roos in 2020 also an issue for u