TAS relocation rumours?

[canberra_dee]

Without relocation do we have a 20th team to balance the draw or go with a bye?

If a 20th team where does it come from?

17 of the 18 AFL teams are located in the six biggest cities in Australia (Sydney 2 teams, Melbourne 9 teams, Brisbane 1 team, Perth 2 teams, Adelaide 2 teams, Gold Coast 1 team) with Geelong the 12th biggest city the only other area to host a full time AFL team.

Given the need for a population of almost 500,000 to support an AFL team (Yes, geelong is an exception but then it has 150 years of aussie rules history and is within easy reach of Melbourne), the only possible expansion markets for the AFL after GC 17 and WSYD is Tasmania and Perth.

Darwin with about 150,000 people is too small to support an AFL team, and Cairns and Townswille are too small to support a team individually and too far apart in distance to support a combined NQLD team. As much as I hate it, whilst our Capital city region has almost 500,000 people and is the 8th biggest city in Australia, the region is divided equally between AFL, League and Union, and thus probably will not get a full time AFL team. The best Canberra, NT and NQld areas can hope for is getting 3-4 games played a year in our regions by AFL clubs selling games.

The other top 10 cities in Australia are Newcastle, the sunshine coast region and Wollongong, and only league mad newcastle has a population over 500,000 with the other 2 cities being around 300,000 and having little aussie rules heritage.

Thus the only possible expansion markets for AFL are Tasmania, which has like Geelong a great and long aussie rules heritage, and Perth. The booming population and economic growth of Perth make it an ideal area for a third team. Vlad has repeatedly indicated that if there were 20 teams this is where they will come from.

The only question is whether these teams from Tasmania and Perth will be new teams or relocated ones. I would think that if Tasmania had a relocated team, then the magic number of teams would be 18 for the next couple of generations. If however, Tasmania is the 19th team, then a new Perth team is likely to make it an even 20 team comp.

 

[serenityNow]

Dont forget that it seems to be common place for north fans on bigfooty to own more than one membership, and to scan more than one ticket on entry.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=718137

WTF

How Embarrassing

 

[KarlHungus]

Originally Posted by incubi
Dont forget that it seems to be common place for north fans on bigfooty to own more than one membership, and to scan more than one ticket on entry.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=718137

For real? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Unlike say Footscray giving away thousands of 3 game memberships to Vic U students?

 

[Scotland]

'Keep North South'...?

Serious hat on - I don't think any of the existing clubs will relocate to Tassie, nor do I think that Tassie will get its own team.

If GWS, GC, Sydney, Brisbane etc. ever take off the way the AFL wants them to then any expansion plans will be aimed there, where the potential big dollars are.

FWIW I don't see the new entities as being good for the existing battlers. If in 20 years time we've got another couple of WC/Adelaides the AFL will still be looking at culling the weak and creating more big clubs, and the more big clubs there are in the mix the shakier the weakest club of the day will look.

 

[Pessimistic]

'Keep North South'...?

Serious hat on - I don't think any of the existing clubs will relocate to Tassie, nor do I think that Tassie will get its own team.

If GWS, GC, Sydney, Brisbane etc. ever take off the way the AFL wants them to then any expansion plans will be aimed there, where the potential big dollars are.

FWIW I don't see the new entities as being good for the existing battlers. If in 20 years time we've got another couple of WC/Adelaides the AFL will still be looking at culling the weak and creating more big clubs, and the more big clubs there are in the mix the shakier the weakest club of the day will look.

I disagree. AD has already indicated at creating a two-speed AFL. That is structurally support big and small clubs but keep them competitive. That way GC and GWS become self supporting much more quickly. Clubs like Port and North flourish and . should it be needed, teams 19 and 20 can be created.

One 'advantge' NRL and Soccer have is they can run new teams much more cheaply.

Oh and a long shot for team no. 20 is New Zealand

 

[Papa G]

Whose logic? What logic?

You are the shittest, most poorly supported team in Melbourne, that constantly relies on AFL handouts (sorry, compensation for the draw) that is dependant solely on oposition supporters to rock up to make your crowds half decent. The AFL have had you in the gun several times and who says they won't again (only North supporters when Vlad says something nice about them). You don't really garner support from any specific, significant or historical area of Merlbourne and you have always struggled with support, even though you had the best team and best player of the 1990's and with the call to arms of the keep North South campaign, you are still struggling to get anyone to your games. That's the logic, if there was to be a relocation, you guys would be it.

Sure my team have problems too, but there is no way in hell Port would be relocated. There would be no point. We concievebly could be kicked out the comp and our licence given to someone else, but we would never be relocated because 6 or 7 thousand Port supporters who might remain affiliated with the team to see 1 away game at Footy Park against the Crows would just be a stupid plan. Again that is logic. This thread is about who could, if it was to happen, be relocated to Tasmania and despite your tears, North at the moment would be the prime candidate.

 

[RoyalBlue]

Sure my team have problems too..

Understatement of the ****ing year.

 

[Prince Imperial]

Unlike say Footscray giving away thousands of 3 game memberships to Vic U students?

It's been made very clear in the club's annual reports that these are not counted in our official gameday membership figures recognised by the AFL. The club has a great partnership with Vic Uni, involving sponsorship, sharing of sports training facilities and a $6m contribution by them to the Whitten Oval redevelopment for a sports science educational facility. Getting university students based in the West interested in our club is a very smart move. Your continual attacks on our club are an embarrasment and only highlight your insecurity.

 

[Farang83150]

I really dont think the AFL would let this happen again.

Port's lack of support would be due to people who already supported another SANFL side not wanting to support Port.

Do you think anyone who supports Subiaco,Swan Districs or any other club except West Perth is going to jump on board?

The AFL would have learnt their lesson there

If there is a 3rd West Aussie team , it would be started from scratch (i dont think it will happen in the near future)

Agreed on the scratch bit but think the near future is to soon, don't think it will happen (if ever) for a very long time.

 

[ziad]

not too far fetched actually

the concept of GWS moving is laughable. Why would a business invest $100m+ in the largest untapped market (popualtion > Adelaide and Perth) and throw in the towel after 3 years. The NSW Govt is chipping in $45m just to touch up a stadium.

The AFL has been working at the grass roots level within the GWS (as their NSW priority) for over 5 years and will invest heavily over the next ten because the rewards are so high.

Population of GWS > 10 times that of Tasmania in ten years.

Product exposure for advertisers (the only thing TV stations care about), lets think about it..................

Now for Tasmania - what melbourne club carn't pay its way, doesnt draw and could sustain half its games in tas and half in melbourne without any impact on TV audiences? The short list jumps out at you doesnt it.

 

[Kimbo]

You are the shittest, most poorly supported team in Melbourne, that constantly relies on AFL handouts (sorry, compensation for the draw) that is dependant solely on opposition supporters to rock up to make your crowds half decent.

Your compassion and decency overwhelm me.

We are clearly one of the lowest supported teams. No disputing that, but you can throw a blanket over a few clubs when they're in equivalent circumstances, namely draw and on-field success. The Dogs, Dees and Saints would draw similar crowds if they weren't currently experiencing on-field success and the draw that goes with it, including Friday Nights. That's where we're at right now and the wheel turns full circle.

All teams, bar Collingwood and Essendon, seem to rely at some stage or other on support from other clubs. Equally, clubs wouldn't want a draw that involves playing Port as a home game for that same reason.

Reading crap like this from a supporter of a club like Port Power with its current financial state, on-field performances and crowd attendances is beyond the pale. I sincerely hope things improve for your club, but posts like this weaken that resolve.

 

[Papa G]

Your compassion and decency overwhelm me.

We are clearly one of the lowest supported teams. No disputing that, but you can throw a blanket over a few clubs when they're in equivalent circumstances, namely draw and on-field success. The Dogs, Dees and Saints would draw similar crowds if they weren't currently experiencing on-field success and the draw that goes with it, including Friday Nights. That's where we're at right now and the wheel turns full circle.

All teams, bar Collingwood and Essendon, seem to rely at some stage or other on support from other clubs. Equally, clubs wouldn't want a draw that involves playing Port as a home game for that same reason.

Reading crap like this from a supporter of a club like Port Power with its current financial state, on-field performances and crowd attendances is beyond the pale. I sincerely hope things improve for your club, but posts like this weaken that resolve.

He asked for logic, I provided it. Compassion and decency have nothing to do with it. If a team is relocated, logic suggests that it will be from a Melbourne based team and logic suggests that the one at the bottom of the pile will be the one to go. At the moment that means North and despite all the bleatings of their supporters on here, it doesn't look like changing any time soon. I acknowledge my own clubs failings, but to suggest suggest Port will be relocated is flawed logic. There is no dual identity/dual location benefits from having a side relocated from Adelaide. In Melbourne there are, 6 odd away games where those that who still affiliate themselves with the club can go to. The blueprint is already there with the Swans and Lions.

Again, if Port remain in the shit for an extended period of time, they may cease to be in the AFL, but relocation of the "Power" has no benefits.

 

[Doctor Jolly]

North will be forced to move to Tassy as Demetriou's final act of CEO.

He (and North) know full well they are not sustainable in Melbourne, and they will also be well aware that the next commission will not continue to prop up basket case clubs like North.
The Storm, Rebels, Victory and new Soccer team will already be bigger than North.

Demetriou will gift North Tasmania to ensure their long term survival.
I feel for the victims in all of this.... Tasmanians. Imagine having North forced on you.

 

[Tas]

You are the shittest, most poorly supported team in Melbourne, that constantly relies on AFL handouts (sorry, compensation for the draw) that is dependant solely on oposition supporters to rock up to make your crowds half decent. The AFL have had you in the gun several times and who says they won't again (only North supporters when Vlad says something nice about them). You don't really garner support from any specific, significant or historical area of Merlbourne and you have always struggled with support, even though you had the best team and best player of the 1990's and with the call to arms of the keep North South campaign, you are still struggling to get anyone to your games. That's the logic, if there was to be a relocation, you guys would be it.

Sure my team have problems too, but there is no way in hell Port would be relocated. There would be no point. We concievebly could be kicked out the comp and our licence given to someone else, but we would never be relocated because 6 or 7 thousand Port supporters who might remain affiliated with the team to see 1 away game at Footy Park against the Crows would just be a stupid plan. Again that is logic. This thread is about who could, if it was to happen, be relocated to Tasmania and despite your tears, North at the moment would be the prime candidate.

Just to clarify, we are repaying $8m per year of TD's debt and receiving $1.4m back in compensation. This is an asset owned equally by all clubs, not those playing there, so the burden shouldn't be entirely on us and others to repay it. If we repay it then put that mother on our books instead of the AFL's.

I'd much rather have the $8m p.a. and we can give back the $1.4m we receive as compensation.

We are at our worst low and we are breaking even despite repaying a billion dollar stadium. Port is playing in an old shit hole stadium and is forecast to lose $4m per annum over the next 3 years.

In 15 years time, when TD is repaid that is effectively an extra $6.6m p.a. in today's dollars flowing back to the club, in the next few years we will be playing some of our lower drawing interstate games in Ballarat and making $500k+ per game there.

I don't think we have anything really to worry about. You trying to deflect attention towards us is quite comical really. The danger for Port is not relocation, it is the pulling of the license and letting the club die and then selling it off to the AFL which will re-launch in Tasmania.

Obviously, I wouldn't like to see that from happening but at this point in time it is probably more of a reality than us moving to Tasmania.

 

[Papa G]

I don't think we have anything really to worry about. You trying to deflect attention towards us is quite comical really. The danger for Port is not relocation, it is the pulling of the license and letting the club die and then selling it off to the AFL which will re-launch in Tasmania.

Obviously, I wouldn't like to see that from happening but at this point in time it is probably more of a reality than us moving to Tasmania.

I have acknowledged this point in every post. I disagree with the last line, but who knows, whether the AFL will afford us the same time line of shitness and financial burden it has allowed the likes of yourselves, the Dees, Dogs and a few others. Helping your club and mine will be far further down the priority list with the 2 new teams come in.

 

[Brad Roo]

North will be forced to move to Tassy as Demetriou's final act of CEO.

He (and North) know full well they are not sustainable in Melbourne, and they will also be well aware that the next commission will not continue to prop up basket case clubs like North.
The Storm, Rebels, Victory and new Soccer team will already be bigger than North.

Demetriou will gift North Tasmania to ensure their long term survival.
I feel for the victims in all of this.... Tasmanians. Imagine having North forced on you.

3 years on and he is still flogging away.

The events surrounding 1982 must burn deeply in your guts.

 

[RoyalBlue]

Ex- South Melbourne fans, jealous of the fact North didn't roll over and take it in the arse without a whimper like they did.

 

[Tas]

I have acknowledged this point in every post. I disagree with the last line, but who knows, whether the AFL will afford us the same time line of shitness and financial burden it has allowed the likes of yourselves, the Dees, Dogs and a few others. Helping your club and mine will be far further down the priority list with the 2 new teams come in.

The difference is the broadcasting rights are driven by Melbourne games, not SA games. Clubs here contribute significantly more than the pittance the AFL dishes out to them and the only reason we can spend ridiculous sums of money in NSW and QLD is because of the demand for the Victorian broadcasting rights.

If there was a more fair and equitable distribution of revenue for the clubs that facilitate the pay-tv component it wouldn't even be a debate. ATM clubs that don't contribute anything towards that aspect of the broadcasting agreement and reap the massive financial windfall while also benefiting from the FTA access are double dipping. It is only a matter of time until that is corrected and the AFL have already talked about looking at alternative income distribution models that are more equitable than the current suck it and see model.

 

[Blues_Man]

If any team is relocated then logic suggests it will be the one with the lowest supporter base and income ..so thats North Melbourne to a T.

Demitriou warned the Roos after they wouldn't relocate to Q'land that they were virtually a dead Melbourne team walking ..sitting ducks for relocation right now.

 

[A Living God]

Just to clarify, we are repaying $8m per year of TD's debt and receiving $1.4m back in compensation. This is an asset owned equally by all clubs, not those playing there, so the burden shouldn't be entirely on us and others to repay it. If we repay it then put that mother on our books instead of the AFL's.

1) Can you provide evidence to showing that North Melbourne contributes $8m a year to dockland stadium?
2) Any money you are paying is not for an asset owned equally; you are paying to use the stadium. The right to acquire the Dockland Stadium for $1 in 2025 has already been paid for and is completely separate

 

[Brad Roo]

If any team is relocated then logic suggests it will be the one with the lowest supporter base and income ..so thats North Melbourne to a T.

Demitriou warned the Roos after they wouldn't relocate to Q'land that they were virtually a dead Melbourne team walking ..sitting ducks for relocation right now.

Yeah, but you see, that could never occur if the North Melbourne members didn't agree with it.

It is truly indicative of the amount of unchecked trolling/idiocy on the main board that North, a club that has declared it has no interest in Hobart, is the main topic of discussion in a thread about three other AFL clubs.

 

[Brad Roo]

Any money you are paying is not for an asset owned equally; you are paying to use the stadium. The right to acquire the Dockland Stadium for $1 in 2025 has already been paid for and is completely separate

That is very interesting.

I wonder if North could sell it's 1/16th share in Docklands and put the money to better use?

What would 1/16th os the docklands be worth in 2025?

$150,000,000?

We'll take 70 million now and cut all ties.

 

[Blues_Man]

Yeah, but you see, that could never occur if the North Melbourne members didn't agree with it.

It is truly indicative of the amount of unchecked trolling/idiocy on the main board that North, a club that has declared it has no interest in Hobart, is the main topic of discussion in a thread about three other AFL clubs.

Talk about all other clubs you like ..but the fact of tha matter is that North are the most vulnerable club in Melbourne ..and have been for a number of years ...logic dictates that they would be the obvious team to relocate to Hobart if the AFL are serious about sending a team there, it's not rocket science.

The mods should heed your advice regarding trolling ..as you are quite a good one and so you should know all about it .

 

[Brad Roo]

Talk about all other clubs you like ..but the fact of tha matter is that North are the most vulnerable club in Melbourne

Because you say so, right?

..and have been for a number of years .

1) North have never had the debt levels of Carlton or certain other clubs.

2) The CEO of North has already come out and precluded North from this scenario.

Therefore, the only relevance North has for this thread is the troll factor.

..logic dictates that they would be the obvious team to relocate to Hobart if the AFL are serious about sending a team there, it's not rocket science.

Perhaps a fools logic, and I would also seriously question your ability to dissect rocket science.

The mods should heed your advice regarding trolling ..as you are quite a good one and so you should know all about it .

Correct. I am an excellent troll. Except I don't troll on the main board.