Relocation

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grayham

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Aug 23, 2002
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South Shepparton
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Sad as it is that the AFL is squeezing both the roos and dogs into oblivion, the question must be raised as to the most likely next relocated side will go to. It will probably be either NSW or QLD, with the strong favourites being Southport or Western Sydney.

I worry about Southport after the bears carrara experience.

So I think the "NSW Roo's" will be the new side. Roo's rymes with "Blues" which is the state teams in RL and cricket.
Based in Western Sydney, playing 12 games in the NSW market like this:
2 games v Swans at Stadium Australia (Derbies).
5 games v big victorian teams at Stadium Australia (Coll, Carl, Rich, Haw, Ess) guaranteed for first 5 years to get them started.
5 games at Manuka oval against less popular teams.

As an incentive to relocate, the Roos will be given:
1. Guaranteed financial backing for 5 years, to the level of most power clubs.
2. 1 extra first round draft pick for first 3 years.
3. First 3 years allowed to (and funded) pay 130% of salary cap.
Scaled back to Sydney's 115% cap after that.
 
Ive always said the Roos should make themselves the 'Waverley' Roos and base themselves in that part of Melbourne, which has a population in excess of 1 million people. But the Hawks will be basing themselves out there soon so that opportunity has been missed.
 
The Kangaroos are damaged goods in Sydney. They burned their bridges when they moved that game back to Melbourne in 2000.

A second Sydney team would definately have potential playing out of Stade de Oz. The Swans membership would probably prefer to stay at the SCG, but the crowds this year have shown there's support out there for games at Homebush.
If the Roos had held their nerve, they could have had a chance to develop that market; which definately exists. But at the moment the Roos don't have a good reputation in Sydney and it would take a lot of work to turn that around.
 

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There is no place for a relocated side. Qld. & NSW do not have a big enough market yet. Tassie and NT are good footy States but the economics have been examined and ruled out.

Before anyone goes on about either NSW or Qld. just look at the second entrants into SA & WA. These are undoubted football States with instant fans. Neither can draw crowds much in excess of the teams in the gunsights. IMO a second Qld. or NSW side would be doomed. The great majority of football supporters have chosen their allegance.

On top of that, relocation does not help anyway. If the clubs in total cannot made a profit them moving one will not help much. It can only add to total revenue if it is an untapped market and there aren't any big enough.
 
Originally posted by grayham
Sad as it is that the AFL is squeezing both the roos and dogs into oblivion, the question must be raised as to the most likely next relocated side will go to. It will probably be either NSW or QLD, with the strong favourites being Southport or Western Sydney.

I worry about Southport after the bears carrara experience.

So I think the "NSW Roo's" will be the new side. Roo's rymes with "Blues" which is the state teams in RL and cricket.
Based in Western Sydney, playing 12 games in the NSW market like this:
2 games v Swans at Stadium Australia (Derbies).
5 games v big victorian teams at Stadium Australia (Coll, Carl, Rich, Haw, Ess) guaranteed for first 5 years to get them started.
5 games at Manuka oval against less popular teams.

As an incentive to relocate, the Roos will be given:
1. Guaranteed financial backing for 5 years, to the level of most power clubs.
2. 1 extra first round draft pick for first 3 years.
3. First 3 years allowed to (and funded) pay 130% of salary cap.
Scaled back to Sydney's 115% cap after that.
Click to expand...

I think your rationale was pretty good but I differ on a few points.

Firstly, I reckon it will be Footscray, they will be based at Stadium Australia in the western region of Sydney and play all of their home games there. Therefore, they can retain their new name of the Western Bulldogs with no real problems. Also, the Canterbury Bulldogs in the NRL play their home games at the showgrounds which is also within the Olympic Park precinct so there will be some obvious marketing spinoffs.

I can't agree with your concept of palying games at Manuka Oval, it just wouldn't make sense for a team that is based in Sydney. They need to play all of their games in Sydney and build up a loyal and sizeable membership base. Games down there will not help that cause whatsoever.
 
Originally posted by Mr Q
If one of the Dogs or Roos was going to relocate to Sydney then I guess the Western Bulldogs could move to Stadium Australia - and not even have to change their name.
Click to expand...

I reckon that wouldn't be a bad move, not sure how Dogs supporters feel. I reckon it wouldn't leave that bitter taste in their mouth if the name was still the same.
 
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Re: Re: Relocation

Originally posted by TheSheik


I think your rationale was pretty good but I differ on a few points.

Firstly, I reckon it will be Footscray, they will be based at Stadium Australia in the western region of Sydney and play all of their home games there. Therefore, they can retain their new name of the Western Bulldogs with no real problems. Also, the Canterbury Bulldogs in the NRL play their home games at the showgrounds which is also within the Olympic Park precinct so there will be some obvious marketing spinoffs.

I can't agree with your concept of palying games at Manuka Oval, it just wouldn't make sense for a team that is based in Sydney. They need to play all of their games in Sydney and build up a loyal and sizeable membership base. Games down there will not help that cause whatsoever.
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the reason for keeping manuka in the picture is that stadium australia would be too empty for less profile teams, even the scg is too big for games that initially might struggle to get above 10,000. (eg v freo)
Manuka has proven to be a success for those types of games.
 
Originally posted by ozzult
I reckon that wouldn't be a bad move, not sure how Dogs supporters feel. I reckon it wouldn't leave that bitter taste in their mouth if the name was still the same.
Click to expand...
The name change happened in 97 when the Smorgon team took over the running of the club. One question put to him at the time was 'Is the name change a precursor to a move to the Western Suburbs of Sydney?' His answer was no and that he would not be involved in a relocation and would hand over the running of the club to someone else rather than do that. Of course that was 6 years ago now and things change...

As to the view of a Dogs supporter, I prefer relocation to non-existance but I don't want relocation. In 97 I was living in Sydney and at that time had no plans for a move back to Melbourne - but the suggestion of the Dogs relocating to the town I lived in still disappointed me. Sure, I would have got to see them more live, but it wouldn't be the same club. It would be Western Sydney, not the old Footscray. I would have followed them, but it wouldn't have quite felt them same. The same is true now that I live in Melbourne again.

I'm not sure whether Sydney is ready for a 2nd team. But assuming the AFL wanted this to happen and were prepared to seriously bankroll it (which would have to happen even if Sydney are ready), it doesn't solve the inherent problem that the costs of running a team is greater than about 10 of them can afford. The only potential solutions I can see are far greater equalisation or more wide reaching spending caps. Without one of these things, I'm not sure whether having 16 clubs or 10 clubs in the competition or where they are located will make any real difference - they'll still be rich clubs and clubs that are struggling to survive as the gap between them will still be such that the poorest will be spending beyond their means in a desperate attempt to remain competitive.
 
as sydney is not ready for a 2nd team, you can be sure the afl is doing everything in its power to get one there, because until aussie rules conquers that town those at the afl cannot rest, poor boys.

but how about relocating to nz? seems to be working for the bum sniffers
 
Originally posted by k.t.frog
as sydney is not ready for a 2nd team, you can be sure the afl is doing everything in its power to get one there, because until aussie rules conquers that town those at the afl cannot rest, poor boys.

but how about relocating to nz? seems to be working for the bum sniffers
Click to expand...

I have heard that NZ are attempting to put a team into the national under 18 within the next few years.

There under 21 side has played some matches against TAC sides and done alright.

Ther under 21 side is playing against some QLD sides and the QLD under 18 in the next few weeks.
 
Wake up guys !

11 'home' games for victorian clubs are already played outside of Victoria so that seems to be the way to go.

Not many more could be as the minimum H&A games with the MCG and blunder dome, optus oval will prevent that.

The best place to relocate a team ? Well Tassie has been a huge success compeared to the other places despite tassie being poo-hood at every opportunity. But the place crying out for a team is waverley park area which is a full 35m from the MCG and serves a region of a couple of million plus eastern victoria.
 

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How about the Kangaroos move to Kangaroo Island ;)
Crowd's would be on a par with what they get now, and they wouldn't even have to change their name. :D :D
 
Originally posted by Jabber
How about the Kangaroos move to Kangaroo Island ;)
Crowd's would be on a par with what they get now, and they wouldn't even have to change their name. :D :D
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now that was funny and original...


almost as funny as me saying WC should relocate to LA... the drugs are cheaper there...
 
Originally posted by Rooboy 96



now that was funny and original...


almost as funny as me saying WC should relocate to LA... the drugs are cheaper there...
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:D

Not bad - Cheaper still in Afghanistan :D
 
I for one would hate to see either of these teams fold.
but i have considered that one day they may have to merge.
The North-Western Kangaroos.
Blue and White with 'Big Red' kangaroo on the front. Would maintain the Footscray colors.....


not perfect but.
 
Originally posted by Lionel Lyon
OK here I come from way out there in left field, but read these stats. and tell me Cairns, with its own footy culture ( http://www.cafl.com.au/ ) in place is not an inviting prospect (bear in mind that most of the people going there are from the footy South):

http://www.dlgp.qld.gov.au/corporat...ofiles/demographic_and_housing/pdf/cairns.pdf

http://www.htwcairns.com.au/economicservices/main.htm
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\

Its not big enough. Tassie would be higher on the list than cairns.
Even a city the size of Geelong is sturggling to compete against the big city clubs.
 
Originally posted by grayham
\

Its not big enough. Tassie would be higher on the list than cairns.
Even a city the size of Geelong is sturggling to compete against the big city clubs.
Click to expand...

But Cairns will very soon be bigger than both Geelong and Hobart. Cairns city'll have half a million people before long, let alone the Cairns region.
 
There are a few problems with cairns. The place does not have enough big business for a start. Who would pay for the ground? The tourist industry is the biggest revenue generator and it is a fragmented small operator dominated industry. Apart from the economics we could end up with the first death from heat exhaustion in the humid conditions of the early and late season.
 
Originally posted by Lionel Lyon


But Cairns will very soon be bigger than both Geelong and Hobart. Cairns city'll have half a million people before long, let alone the Cairns region.
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But Hobart and Geelong are 100% AFL towns. If Carins gets to about double the population of Hobart, then you can apply for a team. I'm sure there will be plenty more stuggling melbourne clubs in the poo over the next few years.
 
Waverley park and SE Melbourne is still the best 'new' area.
But in our wisdom we sold a financally sound stadium to give funds to clubs to survive because the 'new' stadium they have been given is uneconomic and loses them money....

Strange logic.
 
Originally posted by MarkT
There are a few problems with cairns. The place does not have enough big business for a start. Who would pay for the ground? The tourist industry is the biggest revenue generator and it is a fragmented small operator dominated industry. Apart from the economics we could end up with the first death from heat exhaustion in the humid conditions of the early and late season.
Click to expand...

Which is when the Wizard Cup match between Brisbane and Melbouren occurred. The players would need to run around with drips in their arms teh entire time.

Why would the AFL relocate someone against established teams in developing States when existing expansion clubs in football States are still finding their feet - i.e., Fremantle and PA. Perhaps the business model being used for all clubs and the AFL needs to be reviewed rather than shunting around clubs in the existing the model trying to find a fix.
 
Originally posted by Pessimistic
Waverley park and SE Melbourne is still the best 'new' area.
But in our wisdom we sold a financally sound stadium to give funds to clubs to survive because the 'new' stadium they have been given is uneconomic and loses them money....

Strange logic.
Click to expand...

I agree, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Casey LGA in the southeastern fringes of Melbourne's metropolitan area one of the three fastest growing regions in Australia. I think along with Colonial, should have improved the transport facilities to 'old' Waverley and build a 'new' Waverley just like Colonial (35,000-50,000 cap., retractable roof) at that site. Could have had Colonial ready in 2000 and 'new' Waverley ready in 2005. Ah well, not to be!


20 years down the track a North Australia team could well be a viable option, based in Cairns and playing 3 or so games in Darwin each year. Tropical Australia's population could well double in the next 20 years. Cairns (and surrounding region) could have as many as 400,000 odd people, Townsville maybe 300,000 and Darwin 200,000. A lot of this growth due to migration from the south. A team based in Cairns could well be a very viable option in 15 years or less.
 

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