Removing interstate clubs from FTA broadcast

[Underarm]

This thread is an eye-opening suprise to me. The idea that people still watch anything on FTA TV (except maybe some stuff with specific niches, like ABC Kids) is one I find hard to cocomprehend.

Not everyone can afford foxtel.

 

[PhilX]

Not everyone can afford foxtel.

Most people don't have Foxtel, but Kayo is significantly more affordable.

Obviously, lots of people do still rely on free to air, it's just that it did genuinely come as a surprise to me; not necessarily because it's surprising, but just because I ditched it ages ago, and don't really know anyone that talks about it, other than with respect to vacuous reality shows.

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

As Basketball, and Soccer, and any number of other disappearing junior codes in Australia have found out to their detriment, there is an intangible value to having a consistent, predictable presence on free to air that isn't really obvious until it's gone.

To grow the viewing and participation markets for a game, it needs to be freely available so that casual viewers can just switch on and watch it. And parochialism is a huge part of that. For the same reason that people who ordinarily don't give a flying * about water polo will watch an Olympic match involving the Australian team, in the two team states there are a huge number of people who don't really care about AFL enough to go to a game or buy a kayo subscription but will switch on to see how the Eagles (or Dockers or Crows or Power or Swans or Lions or Giants or Suns) are going, and if the product is good, if it's an exciting game, or there's a player who catches their eye, or whatever will stick around.

The reason cutting back on FTA, to any extent, is incredibly silly is it's basically the opposite of advertising 101- if you want to sell more of your product you need more visibility, not less.

Its those casual 'meh what's on this arvo?' viewers, who stumble across football are where the fanbase actually comes from.

That process of going from casual viewer to invested fan or participant is organic and unpredictable- maybe you saw 15 minutes of a game last week so you feel you have something to add to a conversation about football in the office kitchen, maybe your kids see a big mark and ask you to buy them a football so they can try, maybe your old dad has it on every Sunday arvo when you visit and it's just what you do to spend time with him, maybe your tinder date asks who you support and you name the team you last watched rather than say 'noone' and end up going to a game with them- if people think about their own lives and when they actually started seriously caring about football, there's a million different pathways but they all fundamentally start with exposure to the game. Some people just get it passed on to them by die hard parents, but the market only grows by additional people stumbling upon the product.

If you cut back on FTA you are cutting back on chances for new people to encounter and fall in love with football, and that's a terrible long term strategy.

 

[Scotland]

Let's be honest, Channel 7 are hardly the good guy in this either. They get Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday afternoon, select other Wednesday/Thursday night games, ANZAC Day etc. plus all finals and they contribute less financially than Foxtel. And on top of that they get a great deal with which games end up on FTA. This week is Richmond FNF, WB/Melb GF rematch Saturday night, Coll/Ess Sunday arvo. Meanwhile Cartlon vs GWS gets the early slot and the Perth game is the 'twilight' slot into Melbourne both of which are on Fox. Channel 7 Perth cares so much about AFL coverage that Friday and Saturday's games are on 7Mate. Eagles/Saints on Sunday is the only game on the main channel.

If Channel 7 Perth/Adelaide want to broadcast Foxtel games they should compensate Foxtel adequately. If they want exclusive rights they should compensate the AFL adequately.

 

[largebus]

Cricket in the UK started dying at grassroots level after it was taken off FTA in 2005. It won't happen overnight but a similar decline would happen if the AFL went down this route.
To be honest, it's already heading that way with the way draftees are dominated by private schools.

 

[parano1a]

If Channel 7 Perth/Adelaide want to broadcast Foxtel games they should compensate Foxtel adequately. If they want exclusive rights they should compensate the AFL adequately.

Spot on. The emotive PR spin coming out of Kochie & Seven West doesn't address the key point of who is paying the bills to fund the rights deal.

 

[Scotland]

Spot on.

If this comes to bear I'll be interested to see what Channel 7 do over here. They don't like reaching into their pockets and despite broadcasting AFL, cricket, Olympic Games etc. they don't seem to want sport interrupting their regular programming.

Coll/Ess is on Sunday arvo at 1.20 WST (7), WC/St K is on at 2.40 (Fox). I couldn't see Channel 7 Perth using their main channel to broadcast a game of footy in Victoria that overlaps with an Eagles game on Foxtel, they would just put it on 7Mate like they do with Friday and Saturday night games.

Totally different situation to Victoria which has 10 teams. Even with all 10 playing each other in one round (never happens) there still aren't enough FTA time slots to show every team, and unless it's Friday games overlap. Every week someone has to lose out in Vic wanting to see their team on FTA. That doesn't have to be the case here. The money just needs to be sorted out.

 

[footyfan1978]

As Basketball, and Soccer, and any number of other disappearing junior codes in Australia have found out to their detriment, there is an intangible value to having a consistent, predictable presence on free to air that isn't really obvious until it's gone.

To grow the viewing and participation markets for a game, it needs to be freely available so that casual viewers can just switch on and watch it. And parochialism is a huge part of that. For the same reason that people who ordinarily don't give a flying * about water polo will watch an Olympic match involving the Australian team, in the two team states there are a huge number of people who don't really care about AFL enough to go to a game or buy a kayo subscription but will switch on to see how the Eagles (or Dockers or Crows or Power or Swans or Lions or Giants or Suns) are going, and if the product is good, if it's an exciting game, or there's a player who catches their eye, or whatever will stick around.

The reason cutting back on FTA, to any extent, is incredibly silly is it's basically the opposite of advertising 101- if you want to sell more of your product you need more visibility, not less.

Its those casual 'meh what's on this arvo?' viewers, who stumble across football are where the fanbase actually comes from.

That process of going from casual viewer to invested fan or participant is organic and unpredictable- maybe you saw 15 minutes of a game last week so you feel you have something to add to a conversation about football in the office kitchen, maybe your kids see a big mark and ask you to buy them a football so they can try, maybe your old dad has it on every Sunday arvo when you visit and it's just what you do to spend time with him, maybe your tinder date asks who you support and you name the team you last watched rather than say 'noone' and end up going to a game with them- if people think about their own lives and when they actually started seriously caring about football, there's a million different pathways but they all fundamentally start with exposure to the game. Some people just get it passed on to them by die hard parents, but the market only grows by additional people stumbling upon the product.

If you cut back on FTA you are cutting back on chances for new people to encounter and fall in love with football, and that's a terrible long term strategy.

Very well said.

 

[footyfan1978]

Cricket in the UK started dying at grassroots level after it was taken off FTA in 2005. It won't happen overnight but a similar decline would happen if the AFL went down this route.

True, however I do not think the AFL are going down this route. I think they know FTA is very important.
Three live games a weekend is good out of nine matches each round. Not many sports have that coverage of FTA. There should be a good balance that also makes a fan want to attend in person for a sport.
What I miss is a replay type show for enough of the other six matches in the round for any person without pay tv to still get a good feel for how the round went for all clubs. We need the modern equivalent of The Winners on a Sunday early evening when round completed to wrap it all up on free to air tv.

 

[BigDogBastard]

Its not proposed to remove them all at all. Its proposed that they are held to the same terms as the Victorian clubs - some will be on FTA, some will be Fox exclusive, but will Fox will settle for delayed casts, while Seven will feel it devalues their product.

This has been coming for years.

Remember that national comp thing that non victorians like to bring up all the time? This is part of it.

About time there was a competitor to Murdoch. I detest him and everything he stands for, but I am required to give him money to watch my team.

 

[Crankyhawk]

They might only be live on pay tv. But delayed on fta.

Like last sundays eagles v hawks game. That was delayed into perth, one of i think 3 games this year like that. What they want is more of these. So still on fta in perth. Just not live.

makes sense to delay that one into WA otherwise it would have started just after 11 am (hardly key viewing time)

 

[Tas]

I wish 7, 9 and 10 split the 9 games between the 3 of them. Every game on FTA on some channel. Fox can have them all with an option for their own commentary and no ads.

An average round looking like:
Friday Night - 7
Sat Arvo 1 - 9
Sat Arvo 2 - 10
Sat Twilight - 7
Sat Night 1 - 9
Sat Night 2 - 10
Sun Arvo 1 - 9
Sun Arvo 2 - 10
Sun Twilight - 7

It would produce a lot less revenue if that is done. Ultimately, SA and WA haven't been pulling their weight in terms of broadcasting revenue and their FTA advertising market is less valuable than Victoria or NSW. Queensland comes third in terms of advertising value. The problem for NSW and QLD is all their games are FTA and on secondary digital channels, the value of advertising on secondary channels is significantly lower.

Pay TV has generate a massive chunk of the broadcasting revenue, the only reason we get the massive deals is because C7 sells off the majority of the games to Foxtel and C7 only keeps what it considers the safer or more valuable time slot and games.

It sucks for the fans, for my club a Foxtel/Kayo subscription is almost mandatory if you want to see us on TV. I guess it is why we are desperate to keep hold of the good friday game, even though we give away most of the revenue from that to the Royal Children's Hospital, it provides valuable FTA exposure, it is hard to expand your market share if neutral fans never get to see you.

 

[Costanza_]

The competition should be cut to the bone. Broadcast deals are where the money is, there is no room for "fans" or "sentiment". It's time to fold 15 of the teams and have 4 'super teams' that play each other 10 times over the course of a 30 round season.

• Collingwood
• Essendon
• Richmond
• A merger between all other clubs, working name "The Homeless Hens" (I'd suggest a rainbow style jersey that tries to mesh all 15 clubs colours together)

Round 1:
Friday night - Collingwood vs Essendon (MCG)
Saturday night - Richmond vs Hens (MCG)

Round 2:
Friday night - Essendon vs Richmond (MCG)
Saturday night - Hens vs Collingwood (MCG)

Round 3:
Friday night - Esendon vs Hens (MCG)
Saturday night - Richmond vs Collingwood (MCG)

Rinse and repeat for 8 months.

Top 2 to qualify for finals. 3 vs 4 to play a best of 3 series for a finals wildcard spot.

The Saturday and Sunday afternoon time slots can be used to show a replay of the game from the night before. The replay will be screened in 1.5x speed but will still run for the full 3 hour broadcast, to enable additional ad slots.

 

[Big Animal]

Spot on. The emotive PR spin coming out of Kochie & Seven West doesn't address the key point of who is paying the bills to fund the rights deal.

Well WA collectively paid 1.6 billion out of our budget to build a world-class stadium for mostly the AFL to use and make money from so you can probably see why the premier here isn't impressed by West Australian's potentially looking down the barrel of having to pay for subscriptions to watch AFL games played there. Maybe WA should impose higher levy's for the AFL to use the stadium to compensate if we are assessing who should pay what?

 

[parano1a]

Well WA collectively paid 1.6 billion out of our budget to build a world-class stadium for mostly the AFL to use and make money from so you can probably see why the premier here isn't impressed by West Australian's potentially looking down the barrel of having to pay for subscriptions to watch AFL games played there.

If the AFL wants to increase the TV rights deal, someone has to fund it. If Foxtel are going to be paying more, they need to be given some sort of value. Exclusive games for home teams in SA and WA will drive subscriptions in those markets. Alternatively, if Seven want to retain those games they will need to stump up more cash. Seven's rhetoric is trying to convince the public that they deserve to see these games for free. But they are paying through the viewing of advertising, Seven is a business not a charity.

 

[parano1a]

What I miss is a replay type show for enough of the other six matches in the round for any person without pay tv to still get a good feel for how the round went for all clubs. We need the modern equivalent of The Winners on a Sunday early evening when round completed to wrap it all up on free to air tv.

Modern technology has made replay shows like "The Winners" redundant. You can watch abbreviated match replays on afl.com.au or the AFL app.

 

[Dirty Bird]

Its not proposed to remove them all at all. Its proposed that they are held to the same terms as the Victorian clubs - some will be on FTA, some will be Fox exclusive, but will Fox will settle for delayed casts, while Seven will feel it devalues their product.

This has been coming for years.

Remember that national comp thing that non victorians like to bring up all the time? This is part of it.

And if the non-Victorian teams get the same deal as the victorian clubs.
There'd be a fairer share of non-victorian teams on prime-time tv.

Right now the networks can have their cake and eat it.
The current deal is good for everyone except the clubs.

But getting rid of the non-victorian teams being locked onto ftatv will give them better timeslots (Networks need best games now, rather than best vic games) which increases sponsorship, crowds etc.

 

[Viceregal]

Modern technology has made replay shows like "The Winners" redundant. You can watch abbreviated match replays on afl.com.au or the AFL app.

The match replay will just get you the tactical brilliance of the game day commentary team ... maybe they wanted some strategic overview of the matches as a whole, insightful perceptions of the flow of the game, post-operative discernment of how rule of the week went etc ... of course they may have been dreaming!


Mind you the worst outcome of any delayed broadcast would be that it would reduce the value of the Game Day threads on BigFooty ... and the ability to listen to the radio commentary in sync with the muted vision.

 

[The_Wookie]

And if the non-Victorian teams get the same deal as the victorian clubs.
There'd be a fairer share of non-victorian teams on prime-time tv.

Right now the networks can have their cake and eat it.
The current deal is good for everyone except the clubs.

But getting rid of the non-victorian teams being locked onto ftatv will give them better timeslots (Networks need best games now, rather than best vic games) which increases sponsorship, crowds etc.

Fox doesnt really agree with you.

And if it came down to it, commercial considerations by the league and its broadcasters wouldnt change much at all. Marquee slots are always going to favour the Victorian market.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

As Basketball, and Soccer, and any number of other disappearing junior codes in Australia have found out to their detriment, there is an intangible value to having a consistent, predictable presence on free to air that isn't really obvious until it's gone.

To grow the viewing and participation markets for a game, it needs to be freely available so that casual viewers can just switch on and watch it. And parochialism is a huge part of that. For the same reason that people who ordinarily don't give a flying * about water polo will watch an Olympic match involving the Australian team, in the two team states there are a huge number of people who don't really care about AFL enough to go to a game or buy a kayo subscription but will switch on to see how the Eagles (or Dockers or Crows or Power or Swans or Lions or Giants or Suns) are going, and if the product is good, if it's an exciting game, or there's a player who catches their eye, or whatever will stick around.

The reason cutting back on FTA, to any extent, is incredibly silly is it's basically the opposite of advertising 101- if you want to sell more of your product you need more visibility, not less.

Its those casual 'meh what's on this arvo?' viewers, who stumble across football are where the fanbase actually comes from.

That process of going from casual viewer to invested fan or participant is organic and unpredictable- maybe you saw 15 minutes of a game last week so you feel you have something to add to a conversation about football in the office kitchen, maybe your kids see a big mark and ask you to buy them a football so they can try, maybe your old dad has it on every Sunday arvo when you visit and it's just what you do to spend time with him, maybe your tinder date asks who you support and you name the team you last watched rather than say 'noone' and end up going to a game with them- if people think about their own lives and when they actually started seriously caring about football, there's a million different pathways but they all fundamentally start with exposure to the game. Some people just get it passed on to them by die hard parents, but the market only grows by additional people stumbling upon the product.

If you cut back on FTA you are cutting back on chances for new people to encounter and fall in love with football, and that's a terrible long term strategy.

I can't speak for soccer, but I wouldn't call basketball a disappearing junior code. If anything, it's probably in the midst of a bit of a resurgence. Maybe not to 1990s levels, but definitely very popular.
My stepson loves playing and has never watched an NBL or NBA game on TV. We went to see the Harlem Globetrotters the other week and it was more packed at the stadium than the Guy Sebastian concert a few weeks earlier. He plays the NBA2K games on PS4 and that's about it.

Free to air TV is going the way of landlines. Hardly anyone has a home phone these days. it was considered expensive to have a mobile phone, or even call mobiles from a landline. Now, most households have no landline and 2-4 mobile phones, plus internet connection in their place. I get that not everyone can afford Foxtel, or Kayo, or multiple streaming services, and a family might prioritise Netflix or Prime over something that's dedicated to sports, but it's heading that way.

No team gets ALL of their games televised on FTA, and the most obvious ones to go to streaming are the home games that people could actually attend in person. There's also the options of going to a pub, or a mate's house to watch games that aren't FTA.
This thread just seems like an overreaction and a chance to pull out the old "VFL is out to get interstate teams" argument. When, in reality, it seems the interstate teams have been getting better FTA service than the VIC teams, and this will just be bringing everything back to a level playing field, in terms of televised games. In fact, interstate teams will probably still get a better deal with FTA. I imagine, with only 2 teams in every other state, that pretty much ALL away games will get a run on FTA? VIC clubs have 9 other teams to compete with when it comes to choosing which VIC teams will get a run on FTA.

You seem to be implying that FTA is almost the only viable avenue for people to get exposure to the game. In this day and age, there are actually far more avenues for exposure, with social media, video games, portable, handheld devices with 24-7 access to content... "Did you see that screamer/goal/tackle on the weekend?"... 5 seconds later, here's a replay on my phone.

 

[Teen Wolf]

As Basketball, and Soccer, and any number of other disappearing junior codes in Australia have found out to their detriment, there is an intangible value to having a consistent, predictable presence on free to air that isn't really obvious until it's gone.

To grow the viewing and participation markets for a game, it needs to be freely available so that casual viewers can just switch on and watch it. And parochialism is a huge part of that. For the same reason that people who ordinarily don't give a flying * about water polo will watch an Olympic match involving the Australian team, in the two team states there are a huge number of people who don't really care about AFL enough to go to a game or buy a kayo subscription but will switch on to see how the Eagles (or Dockers or Crows or Power or Swans or Lions or Giants or Suns) are going, and if the product is good, if it's an exciting game, or there's a player who catches their eye, or whatever will stick around.

The reason cutting back on FTA, to any extent, is incredibly silly is it's basically the opposite of advertising 101- if you want to sell more of your product you need more visibility, not less.

Its those casual 'meh what's on this arvo?' viewers, who stumble across football are where the fanbase actually comes from.

That process of going from casual viewer to invested fan or participant is organic and unpredictable- maybe you saw 15 minutes of a game last week so you feel you have something to add to a conversation about football in the office kitchen, maybe your kids see a big mark and ask you to buy them a football so they can try, maybe your old dad has it on every Sunday arvo when you visit and it's just what you do to spend time with him, maybe your tinder date asks who you support and you name the team you last watched rather than say 'noone' and end up going to a game with them- if people think about their own lives and when they actually started seriously caring about football, there's a million different pathways but they all fundamentally start with exposure to the game. Some people just get it passed on to them by die hard parents, but the market only grows by additional people stumbling upon the product.

If you cut back on FTA you are cutting back on chances for new people to encounter and fall in love with football, and that's a terrible long term strategy.

Then you'll be relieved to hear the AFL will still be providing more games on FTA TV (in every state) than what was arranged in the broadcast deal back in 2015.

Your lecture would only be warranted if they hadn't been taking enormous strides (particularly in the last 5 or so years) to grow and diversify audience and participation. Whether there's a degree of chauvinism blinding you to those strides, who can say, but basic arithmetic insists the addition of AFLW has ensured the game's opportunity for exposure will only continue to increase.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Let's be honest, Channel 7 are hardly the good guy in this either. They get Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday afternoon, select other Wednesday/Thursday night games, ANZAC Day etc. plus all finals and they contribute less financially than Foxtel. And on top of that they get a great deal with which games end up on FTA. This week is Richmond FNF, WB/Melb GF rematch Saturday night, Coll/Ess Sunday arvo. Meanwhile Cartlon vs GWS gets the early slot and the Perth game is the 'twilight' slot into Melbourne both of which are on Fox. Channel 7 Perth cares so much about AFL coverage that Friday and Saturday's games are on 7Mate. Eagles/Saints on Sunday is the only game on the main channel.

If Channel 7 Perth/Adelaide want to broadcast Foxtel games they should compensate Foxtel adequately. If they want exclusive rights they should compensate the AFL adequately.

But Foxtel also get to stream all of the above mentioned games live too. They also don't have to set up, maintain or pay the cameramen, producers, support staff or commentators for those games. They just get the same live feed that 7 gets. Other than their quarter time/half time studio crosses.

 

[The 747]

Not everyone can afford foxtel.

Kayo is 25 bucks a month, you can cancel anytime and there are a lot of deals where you get it for free, I switched electricity provider and got Kayo for a year for free. Whether you like uncle Rupert or not it is not out of reach cost wise.

25 bucks is what two pints? An hourish of work?

 

[BigPond101]

Im sure that GIL wouldnt be this stupid

 

[The 747]

#VICBIAS! We want equal treatment!

"gets a hint of equal treatment*

#VICBIAS! We want special treatment!