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Teams Replacing 2009

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The Punter said:
Ball has bigger fish to fry. Hayes has talked about returning to Sydney.
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Yeah, I would not be at all surprised to see Hayes become a Giants assistant coach when he finishes playing.
 
Not sure why people would even be dreaming about a new coach so soon. If the current bloke is still here at that time it means he's done a good job with the rebuild and we're winning again. A new coach would most likely mean he stuffed it and we're set back for another 3-5 years. Ill take the former over a fairy tale story every day of the week.
 
Baldur said:
I know this will not be popular but please no. I hope that we never hire a St Kilda champion as head coach unless he has already succeeded as a head coach somewhere else.

The board of the St Kilda football club have enough issues on their plate, without having to deal with a head coach that is so loved by the members that they cannot do their job of reviewing his proformance correctly. Nor is there an relationship between being a great player and a great coach.

Just look at the issues at Essendon are having with Hird. If it was not Hird not only would things not have been allowed to get so out of whack but they would have been able to sack him as he deserves.
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Baldur as to your comments, I was thinking how unlikely it would be for an AFL club, bringing back a past champion as coach and then simply to let him have his head with an anything goes policy at the club.

The likelihood of letting this past great player bring in staff, that are discredited elsewhere, adopt questionable training and development methods and implement an illegal supplements / drugs program would have to be seen as so unlikely to happen. Further, if this did happen to a club and because of the past history of this great, allowing him to continue without sanction, would have to be judged as fanciful and would never happen.

That all sounds sensationalist and so unlikely that it would ever happen. I don't think your concerns are justified, as highly highly unlikely that a professional sports club, would ever let this happen.

;)
 

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MordySaint said:
You got me!!! Magic thinking yes, tradition yes, game day underpants yes!

Time will tell with Essendon, their legals have them covered. They were just the unlucky ones to get caught with their pants down.... Essendon was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. If the government wasn't performing an investigation into drugs in sport... this would have been swept under the carpet.
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Magic, there was no bad luck in Essendon drugs controversy. They conducted a systematic drugs program and believed that because it was conducted in a certain manner, off site and with combinations that weren't listed, they could do as they wanted.

Essendon were using their players as medical guinea pigs. This is fine now, but as has been widely publicised there could be all sorts of long term affects. This wasn't a matter of being unlucky not getting away with it, but a shameful episode in sport.
 
Dont get me wrong. I am not condoning what Essendon has done... I just dont think the AFL has the balls to do what has to be done. Essendon needs to be made an example of so no-one even contemplates trying this again.

I am a romantic at heart and want Saints people at the helm of St Kilda, but I do understand that this may not be possible or be in the best interests for the club.
 
http://www.saints.com.au/news/2013-06-17/bains-looks-to-plug-hole

A lack of retention has left a hole in the Saints list. The club has a range of talented youngsters that have filtered into the senior team in the past 18 months, and a host of experienced stars that continue to perform at a high level. Sandwiched between these two generations are a handful of players, but not enough.

Bains “It has been a conscious decision to have those guys come through who have mature bodies. We are lucky in a sense that three of our better players have come through the draft in that period. Ben McEvoy, Jack Steven and David Armitage have all emerged. But … there is a little bit of a gap there.”

“I think [free agency scouting] has become as crucial now as general recruiting,” Baines said.

“About 50-60 per cent of the draft over the last few years continues to come from Victoria and the bulk of that is from the TAC. We see that as one of the most critical competitions around the country and we’ve always got scouts at each of the game.”

Watters “We need to increase the depth of our midfield and increase our defensive stocks.”
 
mysainters said:
Never replaced Michael Gardiners impact on games
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Great call. The "Big Show" was a legend. Still remember that pack busting grab against Geelong at Etihad round 14!!!! (from a Luke Ball kick mind you). According to many players he hit the pack harder than anyone. Tap work sublime. If he had played the whole granny for us then I have no doubt we would have won.
 
tbarker said:
Great call. The "Big Show" was a legend. Still remember that pack busting grab against Geelong at Etihad round 14!!!! (from a Luke Ball kick mind you). According to many players he hit the pack harder than anyone. Tap work sublime. If he had played the whole granny for us then I have no doubt we would have won.
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poor bloke had more balls than cousins and ended up being the fall guy for him

did really well at claremont prior to being drafted
 
Squizzy1970 said:
http://www.saints.com.au/news/2013-06-17/bains-looks-to-plug-hole

A lack of retention has left a hole in the Saints list. The club has a range of talented youngsters that have filtered into the senior team in the past 18 months, and a host of experienced stars that continue to perform at a high level. Sandwiched between these two generations are a handful of players, but not enough.

Bains “It has been a conscious decision to have those guys come through who have mature bodies. We are lucky in a sense that three of our better players have come through the draft in that period. Ben McEvoy, Jack Steven and David Armitage have all emerged. But … there is a little bit of a gap there.”

“I think [free agency scouting] has become as crucial now as general recruiting,” Baines said.

“About 50-60 per cent of the draft over the last few years continues to come from Victoria and the bulk of that is from the TAC. We see that as one of the most critical competitions around the country and we’ve always got scouts at each of the game.”

Watters “We need to increase the depth of our midfield and increase our defensive stocks.”
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http://www.saints.com.au/news/2013-06-17/bains-looks-to-plug-hole

This is piece of work started out by:

FROM the end of 2008 to the end of 2010, St Kilda recruited 26 players via rookie drafts, trades, and the AFL National Draft. Just five of these players remain – Tom Ledger, Farren Ray, Rhys Stanley, Arryn Siposs and Tom Simpkin.

This is how I would have reported it:

FROM the end of 2008 to the end of 2010, St Kilda played in three grand finals. Finishing 4th, 1st and third on the ladder after the home and away season winning a total of 48 games out of 66.

........

Starting to get really irritated when I am just hearing blame, excuses and spin. 2008 - 2010 was one of the productive and successful periods of St Kilda's history and to use it to blame our current predicament is wearing thin... with me anyway :(

Most of our games this year have been lost in the dying moments, if we still had Goddard and Gram ... the results could and would have been different.
 
Defacto said:
poor bloke had more balls than cousins and ended up being the fall guy for him

did really well at claremont prior to being drafted
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Yeah - he played on one leg for about 6 years. his knee was stuffed. He came over here and was a model citizen. At least one good thing came out of the Lyon era. It reminds me of the Cousins video when he is at Etihad in a Saints Jumper after telling him he was drafted only to then be told it hadn't been ratified by the Board. I wonder if Cousins in our side in 09 would have been the difference? Imagine cousins in the rotations instead of Raph Clarke? I saw Cousins, Roo, Dal, Gardy and a couple of others at MSAC. Going for a swim and discussing how Cousins would fit in with the rest of the team. all buddy buddy stuff. 2 days later the axe fell on the deal.
 

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tbarker said:
Yeah - he played on one leg for about 6 years. his knee was stuffed. He came over here and was a model citizen. At least one good thing came out of the Lyon era. It reminds me of the Cousins video when he is at Etihad in a Saints Jumper after telling him he was drafted only to then be told it hadn't been ratified by the Board. I wonder if Cousins in our side in 09 would have been the difference? Imagine cousins in the rotations instead of Raph Clarke? I saw Cousins, Roo, Dal, Gardy and a couple of others at MSAC. Going for a swim and discussing how Cousins would fit in with the rest of the team. all buddy buddy stuff. 2 days later the axe fell on the deal.
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Lyon axed that deal, said to the players that if he brought in Ben they'd expect a miracle and not do the work themselves. Nicky Dal was super keen on Ben so he could 'learn' off him.

Would it have made a difference, no idea mate. Lyon may be many things but he is not dumb. We did just fine without Ben but i have also had the 3 a.m thought that things might have been different/ maybe/ somehow /who knows/...I wanted him to come to us cos everyone needs a second and third chance in life, did not care about the footy aspect. God knows i have done some stupid things. And then done them again.

As for this talk about Lenny coming back here to Syd for GWS...are people just talking or have they heard the Simon Black/Lenny Hayes rumour going around up here?
 
Saint Christopher said:
Lyon axed that deal, said to the players that if he brought in Ben they'd expect a miracle and not do the work themselves. Nicky Dal was super keen on Ben so he could 'learn' off him.

Would it have made a difference, no idea mate. Lyon may be many things but he is not dumb. We did just fine without Ben but i have also had the 3 a.m thought that things might have been different/ maybe/ somehow /who knows/...I wanted him to come to us cos everyone needs a second and third chance in life, did not care about the footy aspect. God knows i have done some stupid things. And then done them again.

As for this talk about Lenny coming back here to Syd for GWS...are people just talking or have they heard the Simon Black/Lenny Hayes rumour going around up here?
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Interesting. I always thought it was because Cousins was way worse than he initially thought and would be a bad influence. I hear you on the nightime could have beens......
 
MordySaint said:
Starting to get really irritated when I am just hearing blame, excuses and spin. 2008 - 2010 was one of the productive and successful periods of St Kilda's history and to use it to blame our current predicament is wearing thin... with me anyway :(
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We've been talking about it for a while ... but the club isn't allowed to mention it?

If we'd won some more games with Goddard and Gram and finished 8th - 10th, what would be your plan to stop us falling off a cliff with the imminent retirements of numerous players. Get lucky at the draft?
 
Saint Christopher said:
Lyon axed that deal, said to the players that if he brought in Ben they'd expect a miracle and not do the work themselves.
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Think that might have been the suggestion that they move on quickly and not concern themselves with what might have been.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/lyon-down-the-law-cousins-inspires-saints-20091124-j763.html

The late November morning after the St Kilda board - mindful of Cousins' decision to rid his body of all meaningful hair, an impending poor financial result and a nervous and heavily back-ended sponsorship agreement - decided that the player was not worth the risk.

Lyon has never confirmed reports that he was unwilling to take a risk on Cousins, but he agreed that he was determined to end the debate swiftly once the board had acted.

"He was a panacea for us," said Lyon, "to get us to where we needed to go. But it was important they (the players) understood they couldn't rely on anyone else. That's the reality of the situation and I think it resonated through the group."
 
Squizzy1970 said:
Think that might have been the suggestion that they move on quickly and not concern themselves with what might have been.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/lyon-down-the-law-cousins-inspires-saints-20091124-j763.html

The late November morning after the St Kilda board - mindful of Cousins' decision to rid his body of all meaningful hair, an impending poor financial result and a nervous and heavily back-ended sponsorship agreement - decided that the player was not worth the risk.

Lyon has never confirmed reports that he was unwilling to take a risk on Cousins, but he agreed that he was determined to end the debate swiftly once the board had acted.

"He was a panacea for us," said Lyon, "to get us to where we needed to go. But it was important they (the players) understood they couldn't rely on anyone else. That's the reality of the situation and I think it resonated through the group."
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I wish we'd got him now, just because it might have lessened the need for the next big trade.
 
Squizzy1970 said:
Think that might have been the suggestion that they move on quickly and not concern themselves with what might have been.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/lyon-down-the-law-cousins-inspires-saints-20091124-j763.html

The late November morning after the St Kilda board - mindful of Cousins' decision to rid his body of all meaningful hair, an impending poor financial result and a nervous and heavily back-ended sponsorship agreement - decided that the player was not worth the risk.

Lyon has never confirmed reports that he was unwilling to take a risk on Cousins, but he agreed that he was determined to end the debate swiftly once the board had acted.

"He was a panacea for us," said Lyon, "to get us to where we needed to go. But it was important they (the players) understood they couldn't rely on anyone else. That's the reality of the situation and I think it resonated through the group."
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i have no doubt in my mind, getting ben cousins would have been disastrous for ben cousins and terrible for us

people are living a pipe dream if they think he would have been the difference between us winning a flag in 2009 and not.
 

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wolfpup said:
late to this but gardiners impact in games in 09-10 was massive, he played some ripping games (eg winning mark and goal against the cats, etc)
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And tongue. Don't forget the tongue. Flipping scary.
 
Defacto said:
i have no doubt in my mind, getting ben cousins would have been disastrous for ben cousins and terrible for us

people are living a pipe dream if they think he would have been the difference between us winning a flag in 2009 and not.
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I was thinking more along the lines of, it most likely would have made Lyon think before drafting any other flogs under the "any dickhead will do" policy.
 
MordySaint said:
http://www.saints.com.au/news/2013-06-17/bains-looks-to-plug-hole

This is piece of work started out by:

FROM the end of 2008 to the end of 2010, St Kilda recruited 26 players via rookie drafts, trades, and the AFL National Draft. Just five of these players remain – Tom Ledger, Farren Ray, Rhys Stanley, Arryn Siposs and Tom Simpkin.

This is how I would have reported it:

FROM the end of 2008 to the end of 2010, St Kilda played in three grand finals. Finishing 4th, 1st and third on the ladder after the home and away season winning a total of 48 games out of 66.

........

Starting to get really irritated when I am just hearing blame, excuses and spin. 2008 - 2010 was one of the productive and successful periods of St Kilda's history and to use it to blame our current predicament is wearing thin... with me anyway :(

Most of our games this year have been lost in the dying moments, if we still had Goddard and Gram ... the results could and would have been different.
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Its also wrong.
My question would be "what date do you think the year ends"?
If it ends when most of us think it does, there should be 7 players. But lets change the calender to make my report more dramatic. ( for reference Collingwood , who did quite nicely during that period retain around 4 extra players - no comment on quality though ).

But I still maintain that the on-field success did not mean we had to make crap drafting decisions.
 

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