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Barwick17

All Australian
Oct 12, 2006
854
7
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Enforcers - do not have to be massively built or be able to follow through with threats. Just show physical confidence.

We have pretty much none (except Maxwell maybe). Watching Waite and Thornton push our players into the turf at ball ups prove we have no physical presence at important times. We want to play nice, clean footy (which is great) but doesn't fill the team with the confidence to do anything.

Half of toughness is bluff. Being able to show confidence when you are unsure. Glenn Archer said he was always scared at the start and didn't start playing that well until he refused to be pushed around anymore (or words to those effect). Looking at our list, we dont have the physical presence to lift those around in hard times.

Players like Waite and Thornton are in no way tough but at least show superiority to those around them. Campbell Brown and Cam Mooney can go too far but generally use bluff and intimidation to make teammates walk taller.

Does Brett Kirk take shit? No but he is special like Voss. Beau Waters, Adam McPhee, Andrew Welsh, Josh Carr, Steve Baker, Michael Osbourne, Darren Milburn, Matthew Scarlett etc etc are all enforcers that make their teammates walk taller. They are no stars (maybe Scarlett) but everyone knows how important they can be in their sides.

Players like the Scott brothers from Brisbane, Dean Wallis, Martin Pyke would have struggled to have played much AFL if they had the temperament of a calm composed person. They used their bluff and won premierships.

Looking at our list (and we obviously miss Scott Burns) we really struggle. Anyone feel free to take the challenge to name our enforcers at AFL level.

Maxwell, Bryan, Pendlebury (does well for size) and Leigh Brown try at times but players laugh more than anything. Cloke plays footy

H OB, HShaw, Clarke O Bree, Cox, Goldsack, Lockyer, Wellingham run straight ahead but dont intimadate. Rocca should but doesnt.

Corrie, Toovey, Wood, McCaffer, almost prefer non contact.

Didak, Leon, Thomas Fraser, Medhurst, Dick, etc are skillful and rely on that alone, along with the kids like Sidebottom, Beams which is all that is expected of them. We have HEAPS of these that rely on skill but struggle when the heat is on because they are not physical.

We dont have the balance right. Blame drafting or coaching - you choose - but I think coaching can rectify this.

Look at the Hawthorn, North Melbourne, Brisbane premiership teams. Alot of 'tough' nuts because if you wanted to play in the team that how you played. Lets get that attitude at Collingwood mostly to give the confidence to our skillful players to show their wares. Get them cockie, like all premiership teams are, and they will develop in a great environment.
 

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It's true. How do you think brisbane won 3 premerships out of 4 in 4 years? They had one of the most physical bodied sides we have seen. It's the same as geelong. When you have a team of boys against harder more developed players you are going to struggle. Skill may get you over the line but when the side gets knocked around it's going to hurt confidence and intimidate players in going for the next contest. Anyone who disagrees has never played football. Unfortunatley you can't teach aggression to players. You have it or you don't. We don't. In a few years though we may be able to hold our ground more though.

Maybe the boys need to get out of that spa you see on CTV at the lexus centre and into our state of the art gyms. Who are our fitness coaches down there? They are feed and trained so they should be alot bigger. So many weedy players in the team.
 
It's true. How do you think brisbane won 3 premerships out of 4 in 4 years? They had one of the most physical bodied sides we have seen. It's the same as geelong. When you have a team of boys against harder more developed players you are going to struggle. Skill may get you over the line but when the side gets knocked around it's going to hurt confidence and intimidate players in going for the next contest. Anyone who disagrees has never played football. Unfortunatley you can't teach aggression to players. You have it or you don't. We don't. In a few years though we may be able to hold our ground more though.

Maybe the boys need to get out of that spa you see on CTV at the lexus centre and into our state of the art gyms. Who are our fitness coaches down there? They are feed and trained so they should be alot bigger. So many weedy players in the team.

Exactly - how can we have the best facilities and be so undersized? Adds to our lack of presence.
I think it is a mixture of teaching/installing aggression and confidence.
 
Exactly - how can we have the best facilities and be so undersized? Adds to our lack of presence.
I think it is a mixture of teaching/installing aggression and confidence.
spot on, it should come from the top, the direction to youngsters coming in is of concern.

The mantra and example of ruthless,agressive and uncompromising footy is not there and should be, examples of how you need to approach footy when playing for our great club needs to be set.
 
Exactly - how can we have the best facilities and be so undersized? Adds to our lack of presence.
I think it is a mixture of teaching/installing aggression and confidence.

Because size generally takes time. We have the second youngest list in the competition (after Essendon) and equal with Carlton.

Brisbane won because they had an extra 350k to spend on players.
 
We get monstered by virtually every team in the comp and its embarrassing. Holland/Burns were the last real hard players we had. They would go in hard and stand up for team mates.
 

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Because size generally takes time. We have the second youngest list in the competition (after Essendon) and equal with Carlton.

Brisbane won because they had an extra 350k to spend on players.

True to the first but if you think $350k was why Brisbane had a dominance over us then you are kidding yourself.
 
You absolutely right.

Magpies midfield is too offensive and needs a Carl Steinfort type to balance out the mix better.

Tyson Steinglein is not getting a game for the Eagles could be an option for a season or two but Freo's Ryan Crowley would be perfect for the club.

P.S I wouldn't call Adam McPhee an enforcer. He seems a bit soft for me despite his build.
 
All we require is as little Heart and team Spirit.

Essendon have it,we used to.Now we dont.We need to get it back.Maybe we need dids to play up again.........

And our arrogance. I know we don't have much to be arrogant of late, but man, there was a time when we had a swagger - like Carlscum's but far cooler. We need to get our confidence, arrogance and 'us v them' attitude back. We're the 'Pies - of course we're better than you!
 
A 3rd gamer for the Blues showed our mob what is needed. Mitch Robinson ain't no man-mountain.

Perfectly sums it all up, he's great that kid. I honestly don't think Maxwell's as tough as some say he is either --> doesn't throw his weight around in the contests he's involved in and that's why he's no good one-on-one.

Agreed on McPhee, one of the softest players going around.
 

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From our club, there are a few who you could see "holding their own" in any situation, but few who deal it out.

Swan, NJ Brown, Beamer, Heater, Cloke, Dids, Johnson, JA, and Meds are all fiery enough to "give as good as they get".

Rocca, Bryan and Maxwell are probably the only two who can hurt the opposition; Bryan's deservedly in the twos, Rocca's barely fit enough to play while Maxwell gets rubbed out every other week.

I agree, we do need more hard nuts. Danny Stanley is actually a player who really likes the physical stuff. McCarthy is more from the "kamikaze" school of disregard for his own wellbeing than the "take no prisoners" style. Keeffe comes across as being pretty feisty too.
 
Every Team Slumps a bit from time to time.... ive been a Pies supporter for 15years and seen the highs and the lows...... But always as a loyal Barracker
 
What a crap thread.
That's a bit harsh!

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