News Review into racism at Collingwood

[Scodog10]

He's a kid that grew up in Broadmeadows in the 60's and 70's so it's hardly surprising.

And no longer acceptable. I physically can’t understand how McGuire and others don’t get it? Only a few posts before yours a poster stated that insensitivity, self promotion and stupidity aren't racism. Through the lense of a racism discussion that’s been established to allow POC to speak their truth a middle aged white man speaking that way is completely out of step with what’s acceptable in today’s society. You might as well say all lives matter...

 

[foreigner]

Let us for a moment forget about the racism issue. Ed has been a good servant for Collingwood and to his credit made us into back into the big powerhouse club that we are today. But I believe he has overstayed his welcome, everyone needs to understand when their time is up. Leave with your head held high and when people will still question why are you leaving so early ... not when people start asking when will you quit. Too late for him for that now. Best time for him would have been at the end of the 2018 season.

However, for the last few years he has been a distraction for the club getting involved in so many controversies ... and it has happened every damn year for I don't know how long. He is not helping ... for the club to move forward he has to go ... and for that change to happen immediately he has to go now. What is he going to do that he hasn't done for the last 23 years within the next 10 months? He is just dragging to club down and unfortunately seems to not even realise it.

 

[76woodenspooners]

I'd have thought that "membership" in that context refers to the membership of the board, not the punters.

Ah, cool, thanks for pointing that out.

 

[AndrewShawble]

And do you know the time period those 30 people were referring to?

Sorry, what has been done since 2014 that you keep referring to?

 

[jackcass]

And no longer acceptable. I physically can’t understand how McGuire and others don’t get it? Only a few posts before yours a poster stated that insensitivity, self promotion and stupidity aren't racism. Through the lense of a racism discussion that’s been established to allow POC to speak their truth a middle aged white man speaking that way is completely out of step with what’s acceptable in today’s society. You might as well say all lives matter...

I wasn't suggesting it was acceptable in this day and age but I think you'll find it's significantly more prevalent in baby boomers than gen X, more prevalent in Gen X than Gen Y, more prevalent in Gen Y than Gen Z. It's a slow transition and the more years you had exposure to the thinking of the time, the harder it is to shift.

 

[jackcass]

Sorry, what has been done since 2014 that you keep referring to?

Read the RAP. It's on the clubs website. I've included extracts in this thread.

 

[76woodenspooners]

And do you know the time period those 30 people were referring to?

We don’t ...

... but what we do know is that when the report refers to ”recent change of CEO” (being a good thing) they’re talking about 3 years being ”recent”.

 

[AndrewShawble]

Read the RAP. It's on the clubs website. I've included extracts in this thread.

Whats been the outcome of this?

 

[jackcass]

Whats been the outcome of this?

Read the RAP.

 

[Daicos Torpedo]

An ABC report. Did the ABC ever rip into the woman who led the review into Collingwood's systemic racism when she called a full blooded indigenous woman more offensive than a man having sex with a horse? I can't imagine what would have happened to our president had he spoken those words. NO, the ABC immediately leapt to her defense and attacked those who criticized her for her disgusting comment. Like so many left leaning journalists the offense taken depends upon who spoke the words or did the deed. It exposes the sham of their posture on "racism." They use it as a weapon to wound those they don't like-it has nothing to do with genuine concern for the plight of our indigenous people.

Criticism of Behrendt hides political agenda - ABC News

Imagine the ABC writing a similar defense of Eddie after his King Kong gaffe. Dream on.

The references to Trump are so telling. Trump spoke about his plans for America openly and loudly. He then tried hard (and succeeded on many fronts) to implement them. Biden refused to say what he was going to do and was allowed to get away with it. When pressed in a debate he said he would not end fracking and using executive orders was undemocratic and dictatorial. Once elected he immediately began signing executive orders and now has completed over forty in his first week in office. He now wants to end fracking. He has blatantly lied repeatedly and yet the term "Trumpian" is meant to infer bluster and dishonesty.

May I ask why it is brave to say you were a victim of racism in today's society? Victims are lauded and called heroes. They are compensated. That's why so many people are desperate to portray themselves as victims in 2021. Speaking out against racism in the 1960's was courageous. Doing it now is as commonplace and safe as ordering a coffee. Who is going to attack you? How are you going to be punished or in any way suffer negative consequences? Courage is on display when you have a great deal to lose when you speak out-perhaps even your life. It is yet another word which has had all meaning drained from it by its constant misuse.

When the term "mansplaining is used in an article it's time to stop reading it.

The media is dead.

Did you read the ABC report? either of them?
Your defence of Trump is telling. Trump told more lies in four years than he hit golf balls...that is saying something.
Why is it brave to say you are a victim? Please.... Goodes was booed out of the game for speaking up. Vilified from pillar to post by the like of old white turds like Newman and Bolt and the rest of the Murdoch machine. Lumumba has been treated similarly and also told to shut it and get back in his box. Their bravery is sadly what is still needed more that ever.
Edward Maguire has no such bravery. If he did, he would have fronted yesterday and said he agreed with everything on the report and that on behalf of the club he was deeply sorry and remorseful. Instead he played the 'Man" and attacked/boasted/denied and made an utter fool of himself and the club.
The media is not dead. You need to broaden your horizons...

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

In this country? That's like saying dishonesty or bullying is embedded in this country inferring that it is not something you will find in most other countries.
That is a demonstrably ridiculous inference. Where humans gather collectively every human foible is on display.
We are in fact, a destination country for people of all races and have been for decades. This would seem to suggest that racism is not viewed as a serious obstacle to the pursuit of happiness and safety which countless people seek when choosing to come here.

We are not a racist country. We do all we can at governmental level to give our indigenous people the support they need. This is not an opinion. It is a fact.

We continually reflect and review our past and try to make amends for our wrongdoings.

We are a wonderful country filled with decent good people. Sometimes we need to take a step back and appreciate the many good qualities of our nation and people.

I'm sorry but if you think that's true, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you cheap.

 

[watt price tully]

Ah Eddie. Australia's Donald Trump. Surely he can fall no further than that?

Hopefully he can do the CFC one final good deed and resign ASAP.

No one can deny what he has done for the club in the past but he is now doing more harm than good in the role.

The whole of Australia is laughing at him and the CFC for their response to the review. There is no spinning your way out of this one.

I know you're trying for a laugh but he's no Trump whatsoever.

 

[Scodog10]

I wasn't suggesting it was acceptable in this day and age but I think you'll find it's significantly more prevalent in baby boomers than gen X, more prevalent in Gen X than Gen Y, more prevalent in Gen Y than Gen Z. It's a slow transition and the more years you had exposure to the thinking of the time, the harder it is to shift.

To clarify I was more acknowledging your post than metaphorically pointing the finger at you

As the child of racist boomers I wholeheartedly agree. My kids will be better again! The discussion last night with my parents though was heavy work because again they just didn’t get it...

 

[jackcass]

We don’t ...

... but what we do know is that when the report refers to ”recent change of CEO” (being a good thing) they’re talking about 3 years being ”recent”.

True. Sizer another recent addition to the board. But the abridged timeline included in the report sites Eddie's Goodes gaff as the last actual event of racism in 2013, and included that 2 recent cheer squad incidents in 2019 and 2020 were actually dealt with appropriately.

 

[jackcass]

To clarify I was more acknowledging your post than metaphorically pointing the finger at you

As the child of racist boomers I wholeheartedly agree. My kids will be better again! The discussion last night with my parents though was heavy work because again they just didn’t get it...

You should try being a boomer who spends a lot of time with fellow boomers...

 

[peter9789]

Random thoughts.

Eddie is a decent bloke. Needs to be held to account, occasionally deserves contempt, but not vitriol.

His decision to resign was the right one. His decision to hold on for a lap of honour, to appoint himself an agent of change in his last days on the throne, is appalling. The future belongs to others, but even in resignation he's found a way to be utterly self-serving.

People are right to say that our club is a good one. We have problems, but there's nothing sinister about our organisation. And yet the club has found itself in this position, tarred as a symbol of all that is wrong with Australia's relations with Indigenous people and --as unfair as it might seem-- the tenure of Ed has led us to here.

People are right to say that we've improved, that we've done good things, but here we are. What good is this work if it becomes overshadowed by our failings?

Plenty of good posters say that Ed should hold on until the end of the year, that it'd be imprudent and unnecessary to head off now, and Stockholm Syndrome comes to mind.

Alongside Ed's incompetence yesterday I saw good people who deserve a chance to work in a clearer environment, and a chance to help the club tell a different story. The club will not fall apart when Ed steps down, whether it's today or in 10 months.

Collingwood is a great club, with a better story to tell, but now it needs other people to speak more than ever.

Excellent post and captures my thinking as well.

Ed needs to move aside to allow those still with the club some fresh air to get the changes needed implemented - now more than ever the board needs to show some balls and ask Ed to stand down immediately.

 

[watt price tully]

Did you read the ABC report? either of them?
Your defence of Trump is telling. Trump told more lies in four years than he hit golf balls...that is saying something.
Why is it brave to say you are a victim? Please.... Goodes was booed out of the game for speaking up. Vilified from pillar to post by the like of old white turds like Newman and Bolt and the rest of the Murdoch machine. Lumumba has been treated similarly and also told to shut it and get back in his box. Their bravery is sadly what is still needed more that ever.
Edward Maguire has no such bravery. If he did, he would have fronted yesterday and said he agreed with everything on the report and that on behalf of the club he was deeply sorry and remorseful. Instead he played the 'Man" and attacked/boasted/denied and made an utter fool of himself and the club.
The media is not dead. You need to broaden your horizons...

I agree with most of what you noted but I cut maguire a bit more slack. He initated the report, they've implemented some of the 18 recommendations and they are committed to implementing all of the 18 recommendations. Maguire has done a lot for first nations people at the club more than a lot of others know. However, he can be clumsy with words and his use of the term proud has been willfully miscontstrued from it's intent.

There is no comparison with respect to Trump that's just as dumb as as being a proud boy. However, Behrendt is on the money with her views yesterday. The intervention was mostly politically opportunist manfactured rubbish. One of the more shameful periods (and there were a few) of Howard's govenment

 

[anshell]

Being called Australia's Joe Biden would be a far greater fall.

Yeah,Trump is such an examplary figure,inciting insurrection and committing crime after crime,isn’t he?

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

He's always been clumsy with his words, but I think the other panelists gave confidence as to his intent. They all spoke very well.

The club didn't have to instigate this review off the back of Lumumba's comments, it chose to. Invited him to participate. That's positive action rather than waiting for the court case to play out. If you're not prepared to acknowledge the sins of the past you're more likely to repeat them, and less likely to move forward in any meaningful way.

Jump on board the club site and read the Reconciliation Action Plan. It highlights some of the work the club has been doing in this space in more recent times.

You have touched on the reason I have not condemned the club in the wake of this report,

Other than Lumumba, I can think of no other likely candidates among players in recent times that would have required the club to initiate proceedings to deal with racist issues. I refuse to include Lumumba's particularly concerns until more is known about his personal situation, especially the controversy surrounding his nickname and whether he in fact asked players to call him chimp as has been claimed. I don't think Collingwood has any choice now than to see his court case through to the end. A payout prior to the hearing would be an admission of guilt as well as acknowledgement that systemic racism and inadequate mechanisms to deal with it still exist at the club. Lumumba is being hailed as a hero with the courage to force Collingwood into having this review. To acknowledge the veracity of his accusations (whatever they are beyond the chimp nickname) by settling out of court would be a PR disaster.

Otherwise, so much of the grounds for the report's findings appear historically based - the Winmar, Long, Mc Adam incidents occurred 30 years ago. The Goodes' incident involved a 13 year old Collingwood supporter and our president's King Kong blunder and cannot be attributed to faulty club practice or systems. I am not particularly interested in what occurred at the club prior to McGuire taking over 20 years ago. What occurred then has long been in the public domain, and the insensitive remarks of president McAllister in relation to the Winmar and McAdam incidents are well known. I want to know that the club learned from these experiences and set up internal mechanisms to deal with issues related to race and inclusion.

I see the outcome of the Lumumba case as crucial to the club's credibility now. If it is shown that the club failed to adequately support the man or take seriously his concerns, then we have a very recent serious example of systemic failure. If on the other hand, Lumumba largely brought the nickname on himself and is unable to successfully produce further examples of racist behaviour directed against him, I can't see from where further issues of systemic racism and failure to deal with it may have arisen. We have not had any indigenous players on the list in recent years and there are no known issues involving other coloured players who have recently been at the club.

However, I do think that Eddie has now reached his use by date. A fresh face at the top would take a lot of media heat off the club. The man looked flustered and out of his depth at times last night. We need a leader capable of appearing more in control of himself, who knows how to handle complex situations and inspire confidence that right culture is being adhered to within the club.

 

[jackcass]

You have touched on the reason I have not condemned the club in the wake of this report,

Other than Lumumba, I can think of no other likely candidates among players in recent times that would have required the club to initiate proceedings to deal with racist issues. I refuse to include Lumumba's particularly concerns until more is known about his personal situation, especially the controversy surrounding his nickname and whether he in fact asked players to call him chimp as has been claimed. I don't think Collingwood has any choice now than to see his court case through to the end. A payout prior to the hearing would be an admission of guilt as well as acknowledgement that systemic racism and inadequate mechanisms to deal with it still exist at the club. Lumumba is being hailed as a hero with the courage to force Collingwood into having this review. To acknowledge the veracity of his accusations (whatever they are beyond the chimp nickname) by settling out of court would be a PR disaster.

Otherwise, so much of the grounds for the report's findings appear historically based - the Winmar, Long, Mc Adam incidents occurred 30 years ago. The Goodes' incident involved a 13 year old Collingwood supporter and our president's King Kong blunder and cannot be attributed to faulty club practice or systems. I am not particularly interested in what occurred at the club prior to McGuire taking over 20 years ago. What occurred then has long been in the public domain, and the insensitive remarks of president McAllister in relation to the Winmar and McAdam incidents are well known. I want to know that the club learned from these experiences and set up internal mechanisms to deal with issues related to race and inclusion.

I see the outcome of the Lumumba case as crucial to the club's credibility now. If it is shown that the club failed to adequately support the man or take seriously his concerns, then we have a very recent serious example of systemic failure. If on the other hand, Lumumba largely brought the nickname on himself and is unable to successfully produce further examples of racist behaviour directed against him, I can't see from where further issues of systemic racism and failure to deal with it may have arisen. We have not had any indigenous players on the list in recent years and there are no known issues involving other coloured players who have recently been at the club.

However, I do think that Eddie has now reached his use by date. A fresh face at the top would take a lot of media heat off the club. The man looked flustered and out of his depth at times last night. We need a leader capable of appearing more in control of himself, who knows how to handle complex situations and inspire confidence that right culture is being adhered to within the club.

I'm more hopeful that this report can lay the foundations to a CFC - Lumumba reconciliation and that it won't get to court. Hard to know though without knowing Heritier's intent. Is it about vindication and acknowledgement, or is it about cash.

 

[sr36]

He's always been clumsy with his words, but I think the other panelists gave confidence as to his intent. They all spoke very well.

The club didn't have to instigate this review off the back of Lumumba's comments, it chose to. Invited him to participate. That's positive action rather than waiting for the court case to play out. If you're not prepared to acknowledge the sins of the past you're more likely to repeat them, and less likely to move forward in any meaningful way.

Jump on board the club site and read the Reconciliation Action Plan. It highlights some of the work the club has been doing in this space in more recent times.

I don't think the issue in this case was clumsiness - it was intentional positive rhetoric. It was Ed's ridiculous desire to try to spin everything rather than acknowledging and looking at a problem honestly. It's how he tackles everything negative regarding CFC, from Sidey getting smashed to any racial criticism, and it was the review's main criticism of the recent handling of racial issues. Bloody comical that Ed's response to being justifiably criticised for doing this, was to do exactly what he was being criticised for. He's become a caricature of himself.

 

[jackcass]

I don't think the issue in this case was clumsiness - it was intentional positive rhetoric. It was Ed's ridiculous desire to try to spin everything rather than acknowledging and looking at a problem honestly. It's how he tackles everything negative regarding CFC, from Sidey getting smashed to any racial criticism, and it was the review's main criticism of the recent handling of racial issues. Bloody comical that Ed's response to being justifiably criticised for doing this, was to do exactly what he was being criticised for. He's become a caricature of himself.

I think it was. If he'd extrapolated his "this is a proud and historic day" comments to explain what he meant (the report and acknowledgement of past sins and a determination to do better moving forward OR proud of the clubs history in this space as some suggest) rather than assuming people would know, much of this discussion wouldn't exist. A better orator wouldn't have left so much to the discretion of the listener. I'm not doubting there was a level of spin in his presentation, but again I thinks that's just Ed doing it the way he thinks it should be done.

In terms of "recent handling of racial issues", what are you referring to? Is that the Goodes issue (2013), the Lumumba issue (2005-2014), or the cheers squad incidents (2019 & 2020)? They're the only "issues" cited in the report.

 

[Quicky]

I'd have thought that "membership" in that context refers to the membership of the board, not the punters.

That's how I read it also.

 

[Markfs]

I think it was. If he'd extrapolated his "this is a proud and historic day" comments to explain what he meant (the report and acknowledgement of past sins and a determination to do better moving forward OR proud of the clubs history in this space as some suggest) rather than assuming people would know, much of this discussion wouldn't exist. A better orator wouldn't have left so much to the discretion of the listener. I'm not doubting there was a level of spin in his presentation, but again I thinks that's just Ed doing it the way he thinks it should be done.

We all know how Ed operates. We've seen him in press conferences/meetings with the membership.... preaching to the converted.... setting the "positive agenda" with a group of people who are desperate for the club to do well...

This was a different audience, representing a public that want to see the Pies fail. If there was agreement with the rest of the board that this was the strategy for the presentation, then it proves that they are captives to his point of view and they probably all need to go..

If Eddie took this approach without firm agreement from the others on this panel, then he continues to treat the club as his own personal hobby and he needs to go.

 

[Markfs]

I'd have thought that "membership" in that context refers to the membership of the board, not the punters.

I made the same mistake in an earlier post, thinking membership referred to the punters. It seems that the report doesn't appear to investigate or suggest initiatives for the punters, even though it's the punters who probably remain the biggest problem as far as I can see. I listened to Sizer and think the club has made big strides internally post lumumba.

In fact, I wouldnt have said it before yesterday, but I would consider Sizer to be a worthwhile candidate as president for more than just the obvious reasons. Shes a practiced listener and she is composed. Better still, she is not a football expert and we might see a genuine decentralisation of decision making at the club that might give some air for future leaders to emerge.