News Review into racism at Collingwood

Jul 21, 2008
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I beg to differ on one point. Teachers have a duty of care to try to make good people at the end. While young kids are sent to footy clubs and some of them go interstate away from their parents, I wouldnt put the duty of care tag on it. The Pies need to put in place systems to manage complaints about racism.... as an employer would.

Back to the teachers, while I think they have a job to make better people, it's almost impossible to overcome the crap that parents pass on to their kids
No one can really argue with the need to 'put in place systems to manage complaints about racism' as well as promote opportunities for indigenous/coloured players. However, the review's public reception did not reflect an understanding of the need for reform. The public and the media seemed to hear only the words 'racism' and Collingwood'. The report's lack of specific information made the task of refuting such criticism difficult. In the absence of details, the likes of Lumumba helped fill the void.
 

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No one can really argue with the need to 'put in place systems to manage complaints about racism' as well as promote opportunities for indigenous/coloured players. However, the review's public reception did not reflect an understanding of the need for reform. The public and the media seemed to hear only the words 'racism' and Collingwood'. The report's lack of specific information made the task of refuting such criticism difficult. In the absence of details, the likes of Lumumba helped fill the void.

i dont doubt that the media and eddie haters and collingwood haters saw it as an opportunity.....
 
Jul 21, 2008
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if an employee racially abuses another employee, the employer will sack them. They have no duty to show the abuser the right way...
In the case of expelling students for a similar offence, by not attempting to change the attitude of the bully/abuser, the problem is simply passed on to another school to deal with. And while it may be 'almost impossible to overcome the crap that parents pass on to their kids', you still have to try. The same should apply in any organisation, and for employees financially beholden to an employer, undesirable behaviour should be easier to change.
 

Markfs

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Nah. Mediation and an official warning.

while most circumstances would be like that

I said originally that the person racially abused another person.... I would argue that the employer would terminate on the grounds that the employment relationship is broken.... just like stealing some money from the boss


at any rate, that wasnt my point. The employer has no role to try to make the employee see the error of their ways. I would argue that a good teacher should do that.
 

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In the case of expelling students for a similar offence, by not attempting to change the attitude of the bully/abuser, the problem is simply passed on to another school to deal with. And while it may be 'almost impossible to overcome the crap that parents pass on to their kids', you still have to try. The same should apply in any organisation, and for employees financially beholden to an employer, undesirable behaviour should be easier to change.

the employer doesnt have that responsibility To rehabilitate a racist employee? You gotta be kidding. Some HR officers might like to think they do
 
Jul 21, 2008
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the employer doesnt have that responsibility? To rehabilitate a racist employee? You gotta be kidding. Some HR officers might like to think they do
I was suggesting they use their financial power to their advantage. Losing your job should be an incentive to change behaviour and mediation can help to influence attitudes. Employers don't have a responsibility to rehabilitate employees, but firing someone should not be the first option if the incident is isolated, out of character and/or there is a reasonable chance of a positive outcome.
 
. The employer has no role to try to make the employee see the error of their ways. I would argue that a good teacher should do that.

Collingwoods rhetoric suggests that they disagree with that view and I hope that it's more than hollow rhetoric.

Additionally, your viewing things as the Hollywood version of bully and innocent victim, which does occur but mutual error is much more common.
 

Markfs

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Collingwoods rhetoric suggests that they disagree with that view and I hope that it's more than hollow rhetoric.

well there's the court of public opinion....and it gets funds from gov't for its holden centres...

and sometimes organisations do it just because it makes its employees feel good

tell me the reason NAB tells me 500 times a day that their business is more than just money.. i just wish they would stop it
 
well there's the court of public opinion....and it gets funds from gov't for its holden centres...

and sometimes organisations do it just because it makes its employees feel good

tell me the reason NAB tells me 500 times a day that their business is more than just money.. i just wish they would stop it
And there's also a heap of organisations that believe and attempt to follow their values statements. The review suggests that the Pies aren't one of these organisations, but I think that was more to do with incompetence than intent.
 

Markfs

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And there's also a heap of organisations that believe and attempt to follow their values statements. The review suggests that the Pies aren't one of these organisations, but I think that was more to do with incompetence than intent.

i dont disagree and i think eddie thinks that he can sort out any problem without being straitjacketed by policies..

anyway have all the panels and the new policies and make sure everything is acceptable to all the stakeholders and just wait it out for about 10 years and everything will be fine..
 
i dont disagree and i think eddie thinks that he can sort out any problem without being straitjacketed by policies..

anyway have all the panels and the new policies and make sure everything is acceptable to all the stakeholders and just wait it out for about 10 years and everything be fine..

Pretty much. The damage is done. We're on the nose and will be for a while, but the odour will fade -I think quicker than 10 years - unless we stuff up again.

We had a s**t season concenring drama, but it's been a doozy of an off season for the Pies.
 
evidently the muppets has just become available for streaming....with a warning that it is inappropriate

This time around, The Muppet Show comes with a caveat: a viewer advisory which is now carried on some episodes – 18 in total – which warns of “negative depictions and/or mistreatment of people or cultures”. The advisory plays for 12 seconds and cannot be skipped using the remote control.

“These stereotypes were wrong then and are wrong now,” the statement from US studio Disney reads. “Rather than remove this content, we want to acknowledge its harmful impact, learn from it, and spark conversation to create a more inclusive future together. Disney is committed to creating stories with inspirational and aspirational themes that reflect the rich diversity of the human experience around the globe.”
 

Markfs

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This time around, The Muppet Show comes with a caveat: a viewer advisory which is now carried on some episodes – 18 in total – which warns of “negative depictions and/or mistreatment of people or cultures”. The advisory plays for 12 seconds and cannot be skipped using the remote control.

“These stereotypes were wrong then and are wrong now,” the statement from US studio Disney reads. “Rather than remove this content, we want to acknowledge its harmful impact, learn from it, and spark conversation to create a more inclusive future together. Disney is committed to creating stories with inspirational and aspirational themes that reflect the rich diversity of the human experience around the globe.”

so to give a simpler translation.... we thought about skipping the content but it would have affected the bottom line too much.
 

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This time around, The Muppet Show comes with a caveat: a viewer advisory which is now carried on some episodes – 18 in total – which warns of “negative depictions and/or mistreatment of people or cultures”. The advisory plays for 12 seconds and cannot be skipped using the remote control.

“These stereotypes were wrong then and are wrong now,” the statement from US studio Disney reads. “Rather than remove this content, we want to acknowledge its harmful impact, learn from it, and spark conversation to create a more inclusive future together. Disney is committed to creating stories with inspirational and aspirational themes that reflect the rich diversity of the human experience around the globe.”
The Gonzo character was very offensive to the non-species-specific community.
 
Jul 21, 2008
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This time around, The Muppet Show comes with a caveat: a viewer advisory which is now carried on some episodes – 18 in total – which warns of “negative depictions and/or mistreatment of people or cultures”. The advisory plays for 12 seconds and cannot be skipped using the remote control.

“These stereotypes were wrong then and are wrong now,” the statement from US studio Disney reads. “Rather than remove this content, we want to acknowledge its harmful impact, learn from it, and spark conversation to create a more inclusive future together. Disney is committed to creating stories with inspirational and aspirational themes that reflect the rich diversity of the human experience around the globe.”

 
And there is no way frogs are as dorky and pathetic as Kermit. It was a scandalous portrayal of one of the coolest amphibians - certainly cooler than newts.
It’s not easy being green...

I loved Kermit as a child, and still do.
 
This time around, The Muppet Show comes with a caveat: a viewer advisory which is now carried on some episodes – 18 in total – which warns of “negative depictions and/or mistreatment of people or cultures”. The advisory plays for 12 seconds and cannot be skipped using the remote control.

“These stereotypes were wrong then and are wrong now,” the statement from US studio Disney reads. “Rather than remove this content, we want to acknowledge its harmful impact, learn from it, and spark conversation to create a more inclusive future together. Disney is committed to creating stories with inspirational and aspirational themes that reflect the rich diversity of the human experience around the globe.”
I’d like to know which people and cultures they are talking about.
 
I loved The Muppet Show. I watched it at Grandma's, not being allowed to watch it at home, and that gave it some more magic.

Statler and Waldorf were early heroes of mine:

1614136721580.png


Keen observers of the world, not easily impressed, few kind words to say about anything.

One article I read suggested that the Disney warning relates to a handful of specific things, such as a scene depicting Native Americans in crude stereotype, and another in which Johnny Cash performs in front of the Confederate Rag/Flag.

If they take some moments to talk about why some elements of the show were produced in ignorance, then I'm happy enough with that, because it's a much better approach than ditching something entirely for not according to more contemporary standards.
 
If they take some moments to talk about why some elements of the show were produced in ignorance, then I'm happy enough with that, because it's a much better approach than ditching something entirely for not according to more contemporary standards.

Agree

I studied Merchant of Venice in uni, fabulous play, but full of anti-Semitic stuff, which needs to be addressed when taught, so address it. Surely we won't ban or edit sections out of Shakespeare. I don't know if it's still taught now. It would disappoint me if it isn't, but it wouldn't surprise me.

With the muppets thing, what's the point of the warning if they aren't pointing out what about it is inappropriate. But I suppose that would only increase the number of voices looking to ban or take chunks out of it.
 

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I don't mind the warning. It's a helluva lot better than the overly-cautious Disney cutting the show to ribbons. These are the same idiots who dropped an actor from the Mandalorian because of her outspoken conservative nature. How that impacted the show I have no idea.

I watched the Vincent Price episode of the Muppets with my son, fully expecting him to find it all "too old" and boring. Surprisingly, he loved the corny, pun-filled humour and wants to watch more.
 

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I loved The Muppet Show. I watched it at Grandma's, not being allowed to watch it at home, and that gave it some more magic.

Statler and Waldorf were early heroes of mine:

View attachment 1064185

Keen observers of the world, not easily impressed, few kind words to say about anything.

One article I read suggested that the Disney warning relates to a handful of specific things, such as a scene depicting Native Americans in crude stereotype, and another in which Johnny Cash performs in front of the Confederate Rag/Flag.

If they take some moments to talk about why some elements of the show were produced in ignorance, then I'm happy enough with that, because it's a much better approach than ditching something entirely for not according to more contemporary standards.

Exactly. If we can't learn from the past then we're doomed to make the same mistakes. Hiding history doesn't encourage that learning.
 
Agree

I studied Merchant of Venice in uni, fabulous play, but full of anti-Semitic stuff, which needs to be addressed when taught, so address it. Surely we won't ban or edit sections out of Shakespeare. I don't know if it's still taught now. It would disappoint me if it isn't, but it wouldn't surprise me.

With the muppets thing, what's the point of the warning if they aren't pointing out what about it is inappropriate. But I suppose that would only increase the number of voices looking to ban or take chunks out of it.

Cancel culture is more disturbing to me than a Carlton reawakening. The mindlessness of it is equal to a Trump rally.

It's also profoundly arrogant. It assumes that we've achieved such a level of enlightenment that we can sit in absolute and final judgment over all cultural artefacts, past and present.

Whatever doesn't meet 'the standard' will be disappeared, cast out from the human story.

Sometimes there seems to be something generational about it, with younger generations especially eager to see everything through the refined and near-perfect lens of the present, which is such a frighteningly small perspective on the world.

What the f*** becomes of art when humanity is too scared to look itself in the eye?

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With the streaming of The Muppet Show, my understanding is that Disney has identified some specific issues, and will talk to those issues without excising them.

That seems like a much healthier approach.
 
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