Autopsy Review v Swans

[StCicatriz]

Eli wasn't good enough for a AFL list other wise another club would of picked him up

given outside run is an issue and we have no one else who can play the wing, beyond monty and newnes. i reckon it wouldnt have hurt to keep him on the list over the 10th best HBF'er

 

[Pinch Hitters]

It wasn't a great day for Saints fans.
I was fairly confident we could mix it with them, but it just wasn't to be. We could not handle their pressure.
The Bulldogs, followed by Adelaide in the next two games means it doesn't get any easier any time soon.
Let's hope they can find something against the Doggies next week.

 

[Persevering Saint]

That would be all well and good if they were all in good form, but Bruce has struggled at AFL level, got dropped and is now struggling at VFL level and Paddy is still trying to find his feet. I have no doubt if all were in ripping form the coaches wouldn't hesitate to play them all in the same side like we did earlier in the year and for large parts of last year. But, let's not forget that when Paddy was dropped he deserved to be and Bruce also deserved to be dropped. For that structure to work they all have to be playing decent footy IMO.

Or they all need to be playing, period. Maybe part of the reason either Bruce or Paddy are struggling, is because they don't play together.

 

[Pinch Hitters]

A mate of mine wrote this 5 Takeaway's piece if you are a masocist.
https://aussiefootyforums.com/news/sports/aussie-rules/5-things-we-learned-st-kilda-v-sydney

 

[bird_man]

Or they all need to be playing, period. Maybe part of the reason either Bruce or Paddy are struggling, is because they don't play together.

I could understand that argument if we had just one key forward or even two, but at the moment we have three options out there.

 

[karaoke]

Just wasn't our day.

Also, Sydney played really well.

Goes to show the impact of one side being slightly off & the other one 'on'.

That's just how the AFL competition is now.

Move on to next week.

 

[holllywood]

Your first sentence is the big problem with what happened at the selection table for mine. Why in the world we carried dunstan is just beyond me. Hes an inside mid who's lost his effectiveness in there. Dunstan is useless on the outside and can't provide the defencive pressure that is the hallmark of richos game. So why is he selecting him?

It feels completely out of place for what he is trying to achieve. It feels like pumping games into him for the sake of it because richo rates him.

Nathan wright on the other hand got sent back to the VFL after a very good game on the back of team balance. So why wasn't dunstan sent back to the VFL with the same message?

Dunstan provides bugger all outside run he laid 1 tackle for the game from memory and is ineffectual inside. Hell even last week he had no impact on the inside.

Given we have steele stevens Steven and Ross in there you would think we would bring in a runner

I agree with your post.

I think the coaching panel wanted to beat Sydney on the inside and clearance and hope that Gresham/Billings/Weller and others could keep the ball in. But our forward pressure was non-existent and midfield got beaten, so the plan back fired rather badly.

I think Minch and/or Wright have to come in, even both an just apply manic pressure. I'd bring both if we want to play Roo and Paddy in the forward line as well.

And we did have a runner in the team yesterday, he just got injured in the first quarter. Considering team balance, he was probably one of the last blokes we wanted injured.

 

[VDS66]

I agree with your post.

I think the coaching panel wanted to beat Sydney on the inside and clearance and hope that Gresham/Billings/Weller and others could keep the ball in. But our forward pressure was non-existent and midfield got beaten, so the plan back fired rather badly.

I think Minch and/or Wright have to come in, even both an just apply manic pressure. I'd bring both if we want to play Roo and Paddy in the forward line as well.

And we did have a runner in the team yesterday, he just got injured in the first quarter. Considering team balance, he was probably one of the last blokes we wanted injured.

We'll if that was the plan then they must have been watching footage from 10 years ago because Swans have changed from the stoppage kings they once were.

 

[Persevering Saint]

I could understand that argument if we had just one key forward or even two, but at the moment we have three options out there.

And one of those other options is Nick "Kick it to me" Riewoldt.

 

[Hubnester]

Absolutely cannot bag Paddy out after that game. We gave him zero chance. Any forward in the game would struggle with that quality of delivery.
He does surprisingly well to collect the ground ball, clever with his taps and quick pickups. Only real criticism is the obvious fact that he needs to work on applying pressure, but of course everybody would be aware of that.

It was very clear that our players are coached to ignore instincts and act a certain way, particularly coming out of defence.
Time after time after time, we refused to kick long to a contest, and messed around with the dinky handballs - often to another player in a worse position. It was almost comical, the way we just kept doing it. Sometimes under no pressure at all. The worrying thing is that this did not change. That was baffling.

We weren't absolutely terrible at the contest, and our defenders competed well despite being up against it. But we sorely miss Webster and Newnes.

Hopefully a bit of a shock and a reality check for our players and coaches alike. We were our own worst enemy this week and we made Sydney look a lot better than they played.

 

[holllywood]

We'll if that was the plan then they must have been watching footage from 10 years ago because Swans have changed from the stoppage kings they once were.

Their not the stoppage kings but they are epic at having numbers at the contest and releasing them with the handball. Perhaps it was our plan to deny them first use of the ball hence playing Steele, Stevens and Dunstan?

 

[akeliz22]

 

[Diehard Saint]

....It was very clear that our players are coached to ignore instincts and act a certain way, particularly coming out of defence.
Time after time after time, we refused to kick long to a contest, and messed around with the dinky handballs - often to another player in a worse position. It was almost comical, the way we just kept doing it. Sometimes under no pressure at all. The worrying thing is that this did not change. That was baffling.

We weren't absolutely terrible at the contest, and our defenders competed well despite being up against it. But we sorely miss Webster and Newnes.

Hopefully a bit of a shock and a reality check for our players and coaches alike. We were our own worst enemy this week and we made Sydney look a lot better than they played.

Spot on. Jeez it was frustrating to watch.
Wasn't it Einstein who defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome?

 

[Michael Scarn]

Question... why didn't Sydney wear away shorts yesterday? Do you not have to wear white shorts as away team?

I believe GC are the only team that Sydney don't wear their full home kit against. They just don't clash with anyone else. We also wear our home kit away against them

 

[Nutsngum]

A mate of mine wrote this 5 Takeaway's piece if you are a masocist.
https://aussiefootyforums.com/news/sports/aussie-rules/5-things-we-learned-st-kilda-v-sydney

30k rocked up for a 1:45pm game... you know the same time where a lot of footy fans are are their local clubs still?

 

[Brains Trust66]

Thanks for putting it up but unfortunately you can see how many mistakes or turnovers he had along side the good stuff. Wasnt his best day but he wasn't alone . At least he got a fair bit of the ball even if he doesn't want to watch this highlight package too many times.


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[Brains Trust66]

30k rocked up for a 1:45pm game... you know the same time where a lot of footy fans are are their local clubs still?

That's seems to be a typical crowd for us at the moment. I thought it would have been a much bigger crowd given that we had won three in a row but I think those Grand Final loses have done some serious damage to our supporter base . I think a lot of supporters have simply given up on the Saints at least going to watch them play these days. In the old days at Moorabbin if we won three in a row it would have been a full house for the next game . What a pity the Afl didn't build up Moorabbin like the Geelong ground it would have been great and a real fortress like the Geelong ground is. Instead the interstate sides come over here and they don't fear playing at the dome or even the MCG against us because we rarely play there because we can't draw a crowd anymore.

We kid ourselves about how good we think we are but we are really just a small club with a small membership. We are paying the price at last for not winning premierships. We were ok for a long time because we won in 66 and there were a lot of old members around for years that saw the flag . But most of them have died off now .


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[malevu]

I'm afraid the Swans have our measure at the moment. Of all the teams in the AFL they seem to handle us the best. Even at Etihad they seem to be able to stitch us up. It's a pity we couldn't have played them earlier in the year when they were playing a bunch of kids. Sometimes it's not always who you play but when you get to play them. Like striking the Dogs next week after a couple of recent close losses......

Anyway, it's just another week. Look at the Cats. Three insipid efforts playing bruise free footy then they pull that effort out. An all time tackle record or close to it, against one of the best tackling teams in the competition. Just goes to show you how quickly things can turn around.

 

[Gangnam Saint]

The Swans are our yardstick. You want to be considered a serious contender you have to beat them.

And as yesterday demonstrated we are still a long way off. That's ok...we now know.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Just wondering people's thoughts...

Is Paddy better suited to CHF role like Cloke, Brown etc?

He either needs to build his tank, trim down or both.

As a tradional leading full forward, I'm not sure. His ability to mark would better if he's on the move imo.

Yes, I think he may well be.

I keep thinking back to that pre season day v Carlscum... Paddy up the ground was very exciting.

It would also help with our F50 entries as Paddy's field kicking is fantastic


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[JiggsteR45]

All the hate for Gilbert, Dunstan and McCartin genuinely makes me feel embarrassed to be a St. Kilda supporter sometimes, it's pathetic. Reading comments on FB it's deplorable, and on here as well anyone that continuously bags them should be ashamed of themselves. I was disgusted at the bronx cheers for Paddy yet again, what a ****ing embarrassment it makes us all look pathetic when a few dickheads become impatient with him. He's under so much pressure and you can see all the boys are getting around him which is fantastic, some 'supporters' don't deserve to don the red, white and black.

Sydney are a VERY good side and were hit with a lot of injuries at the start of the year. Getting players back and hitting form whilst we had been on a high for a few weeks, probably due for a loss. You can't win them all so move on to next week. Disappointing to lose by 50 and the way we played wasn't great but a lot of credit has to go to the Swans for being able to shut down our run off half back and beat us at our own game in terms of applying manic pressure. Forced us to go sideways all day and they hit us well on the counter, must have gotten 11 or 12 goals in turnovers and a few out the back.

I wouldn't make any changes next week unless they're forced. Didn't agree with Bruce being dropped this week but now that he's there make him earn his spot back in the side, give him a couple of weeks to build some good form. Looking forward to a big game next week - Go Saints!

Well said!


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[Brains Trust66]

The Swans are our yardstick. You want to be considered a serious contender you have to beat them.

And as yesterday demonstrated we are still a long way off. That's ok...we now know.

I used to think their supporters were ok too but after one visit they are just as bad as everybody else . Don't go there looking for a friendly discussion. I've learnt my lesson. I'm not going to stray into another clubs board again . Too many hotheads looking for an argument.

When I was in the Swans board yesterday , one campaigner said he was back. I'm assuming he went missing the first six weeks lmao.


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[The Enemy Within]

Any one that thinks our midfield was the reason we didn't perform think again more then matched them in the centre.

Some points of observation on my behalf.

As a collective group our work when we didn't have the ball was poor no second efforts.

We missed some run and carry off HBF, Robertons stats were good but his decision making and disposal was off he is entitled to a bad game.

Longers ruck work was ok he was poor when Sinclair spread he couldn't run and impact the marking contest of the opposition ruckman,he also needs to position him self in a more dangerous possy on the ground too often was forward of the ball instead of defensive side.

Paddy just needed to lead more and use his instincts at the incoming ball, too often he wanted to go body on body instead of demanding the ball on a lead.

We lost that connection from HFF to deep forward as a consequence keep persisting with Paddy.

Gresham got caught a couple of times by trying to side step to often can get away with it in U18 seniors questionable when he did get caught our forwards had already lead out and were shut down missed opportunity.

Mav isn't impacting the contest like previous years too much of me me me in his play.

At times our small forwards looked a little selfish not playing what I would call selfless footy.

Brown played a good game on Buddy, Buddy feasted during party time otherwise he was kept in check.

Montagna has indicated he wants to go on another year, the club will make this decision.

Riewoldt will play this week he will take the Adelaide game off after the bye.

Did we as a supporter group underestimate the impact of scrutiny by the media over Murphygate there is a lot of young influencel players I'm not sure the club handled it with the players well through out the week.

Move onto to Bulldogs we match up well with them it's another cross roads game I look forward to the teams response.

 

[saintsmania]

Longer just doesnt do engh...i m sure holmes will do better....

Out:longer,dunstan
In:holmes,minchi

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[Persevering Saint]

I think we also should recognise that at least 5 of the Swans' goals, if not more, we very low percentage shots that they managed to pull off. That they slotted so many is a bit of an anomaly.