Revisiting the Crows' big trades from the last two years

Winners or losers?


  • Total voters
    34

cmndstab

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We didn't choose to trade Cameron. He wanted to leave. For that matter, Gibbs was the only trade that wasn't forced on us.

To be fair, we did fairly well out of the Cameron trade - pick 12 for an inconsistent pressure forward is a great return. But there's no denying that we've missed him, and I'm yet to be convinced that Fogarty will ever become anything close to the player we hoped he would be.
 

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GROTTO

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We didn't choose to trade Cameron. He wanted to leave. For that matter, Gibbs was the only trade that wasn't forced on us.

To be fair, we did fairly well out of the Cameron trade - pick 12 for an inconsistent pressure forward is a great return. But there's no denying that we've missed him, and I'm yet to be convinced that Fogarty will ever become anything close to the player we hoped he would be.
Yes I know there was the "home" factor for CC.

I wonder though if we had offered him a similar lucrative contract as to what the Lions offered if he would have stayed.

I guess we will never know.
 

Sanders

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Think we did well in our trades and usually extracted good or better than fair value when losing a player

Only in the most part we lost best 22 players and replaced them with picks

It’s not the value we got that is questionable but whether we might have focused more on replacing what we lost player wise for the 22
 

Interloperer

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We didn't choose to trade Cameron. He wanted to leave. For that matter, Gibbs was the only trade that wasn't forced on us.
This is a common theme with Adelaide trades though."They wanted to leave" shouldn't be taken at face value.

To be fair, we did fairly well out of the Cameron trade - pick 12 for an inconsistent pressure forward is a great return. But there's no denying that we've missed him, and I'm yet to be convinced that Fogarty will ever become anything close to the player we hoped he would be
He's is inconsistent. But none of the attempted replacements for him can produce the worst Cameron has to offer, much less his best.

Cameron debuted half-way through 2014, so Murphy/Fogarty/etc. will soon be at the same point in their career as when Cameron was kicking pressure goals to seal a finals victory.
 

Samcro24

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He wasn't worth what we traded for him at the time and a few posters stated that. He was severely overrated by many here, that's what happened.
No it’s not.

No one could have predicted this season. From 4th b&f to dropped 4 times. It’s clearly not just on field. Especially given our history of selecting senior players despite them clearly being shot.
 

Cleric

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No it’s not.

No one could have predicted this season. From 4th b&f to dropped 4 times. It’s clearly not just on field. Especially given our history of selecting senior players despite them clearly being shot.
Wishful thinking. Even Reid the year before said it would be irresponsible of the club to entertain a cost Carlton were demanding. The fact he did it a year later for a 29 year is even more irresponsible.
He was coming to the end of his career, Qaedand we paid massive overs.
You cant defend the trade any more.
 

Samcro24

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Wishful thinking. Even Reid the year before said it would be irresponsible of the club to entertain a cost Carlton were demanding. The fact he did it a year later for a 29 year is even more irresponsible.
He was coming to the end of his career, Qaedand we paid massive overs.
You cant defend the trade any more.
It can’t be argued that it wasnt a bad trade now. To say it was predictable that things would get so bad that he’d be dropped in year two is bulls**t.
 

LC40

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Oct 14, 2008
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No it’s not.

No one could have predicted this season. From 4th b&f to dropped 4 times. It’s clearly not just on field. Especially given our history of selecting senior players despite them clearly being shot.
You didn't need to predict how he played this season.
It was the concern with his age and the distinct possible fall off of performance that comes with the twilight of a career.
The high price we paid at the time and the talent we were forfeiting( 2 possible 10 year players) that was the red flag.
We could have injected within 2 years, 4 or 5 low draft picks that grew together and become the nucleus of the next wave of young talent.
Sure it's all conjuncture but a model of sorts existed before hand with what both Hawthorn and Geelong had done previously.
Even Port did it last year to an extent.
The moment the first attempt failed we should have reevaluated the deal and the cost vs benefits of the deal.
As a 11 year AFL player of course Gibbs could play and had value but there is a point where the cost is justified.
Back then I questioned the deal and didn't feel he was worth that cost.
Predicted with certainty no, but this was always a strong possibility.
 

1991firstgamer

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I think the bottom line is we lost some better than good players for not much back and we gave up too much for a disappointing Gibbs


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StonesThrow

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He wasn't worth what we traded for him at the time and a few posters stated that. He was severely overrated by many here, that's what happened.
I'm not arguing about what he was worth at the time, but he was still a very good player at that time. Let's not re write history. He's fallen off a cliff. Even last year was a pretty big drop imo. No where near the player he was at Carlton.
 

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Mike Smyth

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There is currently only one player (Milera) from the last 3 draft/trade periods (excluding rookie) who is playing consistently good football this year. That's disturbing especially when you consider we are (were) supposedly in a premiership window.
 

John Who

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I'm not arguing about what he was worth at the time, but he was still a very good player at that time. Let's not re write history. He's fallen off a cliff. Even last year was a pretty big drop imo. No where near the player he was at Carlton.
Also what happened last year at the Crows infinitely made the Gibbs deal look worse than what it was.
The motive of the trade back then was to add an extra midfielder with a touch of class to increase our premiership chances from 2017 to 2018.
He was playing consistently well for most part of last season, but the club f’ed it up with too many injuries. Imagine what could have been with Gibbs last year with a fit and firing Sloane and Crouch bros?

Also, how the heck is the club to know what is to happen to a traded player 2 years after being traded? How is the club or anyone going to predict an off-field situation or a complete 180 degree in mental application for a player in their second year after being traded?
 

FR0GGY

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There is currently only one player (Milera) from the last 3 draft/trade periods (excluding rookie) who is playing consistently good football this year. That's disturbing especially when you consider we are (were) supposedly in a premiership window.
I think it’s more disturbing when you’re not in a premiership window and I’m not sure that we are in one.
 

Brasher

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I don't think we should ever measure trades (even a body of them) in isolation to how it transforms to onfield personnel and performance and also what players you have waiting in the wings. From the orginal post and for the sake of the argument add back Cameron and Fogarty and you get:

Players: Jake Lever, Mitch McGovern, Cameron
2017 picks: 16, 37, 77
2018 picks: 33, 47
2019 picks: Our first and third round selections

And here is what we gained.

Players: Bryce Gibbs, Ned McHenry, Shane McAdam, Lachlan Scholl, Will Hamill, Fogarty
2019 picks: Carlton's first and second round selections

In isolation, Lever trade is a clear win because we had Doedee (and thankfullly Keith) in the wings so we turned depth into a first round pick....however we haven't converted this draft capital into onfield improvement because Gibbs is running around in the 2s
Cameron is replaced by Murphy which is a downgrade and the player we picked for the draft pick isn't contributing on the field (yet).
McGovern hasn't been replaced but then again I'm not really sure what his benchmark should be to measure a replacement on.

So right now, the net effect of our trading is a push...we haven't really gotten better nor have we gotten worse through trading but the reality is we should be always looking to be getting better, especially when we had just played off in a GF.

Maybe in a year or two and we actually, you know, play some of these guys, we will have a better view.

The headscratching thing for me is the Gibbs trade. Clearly the strategy with drafting has been to inject speed and take a longer term view to replacing some of the stalwarts (Betts, Walker etc). Gibbs didn't fit either category and looks like it was just an opportunistic event that wasn't part any longer term plan. All I can think of is that the club genuinelly believed that they were one Bryce Gibbs away from a premiership.

I'm not sure there is much more improvement in the best 22 (which was definitely the company line going into 2017). The good news is that we could fully turn over a 3rd of best 22 in 2020 once you factor in 2019 draftees. I reckon that will determine how well we have traded the last two years.
 

Mike Smyth

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I don't have a problem with what we received in return for our trades over the last few years. My concern is the lack of talent we traded IN so as to maximise our brief premiership window and.to, if possible, extend the window. I would love to speak to someone in the football dept to get an answer to this question.

Also don't underestimate what trading in a quality player does to a playing group who only see one way traffic.
 
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TheLeftFist8

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Port made us look stupid last off-season.
Whilst I tend to agree with you, 2 factors need to be accounted for:

- Our disgraceful selection policy. If Jones had played more footy this year I'd feel better about it.
- Most importantly, this years pick 2 needs to be factored in to the equation. If next year Anderson is looking every bit as good as Rozee it paints that off season in a different light.

Where Port nailed it that we rarely will is they offloaded some big names that continually let them down.
 

GreyCrow

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Anyone know why we didn't go for Lachie Neale?
Lachie Neale didnt go for us

Speaking to a close family member 2 reasons he chose Brisbane.

1. He doesnt know anybody in Adelaide (family from SE)
2. He escaped one 2 team town and all the associated issues , he didnt want another ie Brisbane is incognito town

But the saving grace is he wouldnt have chosen Port if he did want to come back
 

GrommoT

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... The high price we paid at the time and the talent we were forfeiting( 2 possible 10 year players) that was the red flag.
We could have injected within 2 years, 4 or 5 low draft picks that grew together and become the nucleus of the next wave of young talent. ...
Mind you, one of those could be offset by the bLoos' 2018 r2 we got back, which got traded to GWS for bLoos' 2019 r2 pick so that's still in play and could land us a long term player.
 

GrommoT

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We had more currency than them to start with, didn't we?

They absolutely did a number on us.
Geoff Parker in a recent interview with Twomey said they saw the SA trio in the 2016 U16 carnival and decided then and there to go hard at last year's draft. I suspect they weren't too upset with Polec & Wingard wanting to be traded out (if not actually making things go that way) to get the draft stock to trade up for Rozee.

So while it looked like we had better draft stock than them to try and trade up, they must have already had plans in place to hit the ground running as soon as trade week started and ambush our guys.
 
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