Richmond and Collingwood, the winners of the AFL's expansion drafts

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PieLebo87

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34: Wells
32: Dunn, Goldsack,
31: Pendlebury, Varcose,
30: Reid, Greenwood, Mayne,
29: Howe, Beams,
28: Thomas, Cox, Roughead, Siddebottom,
27: Elliot

Collingwood have been very good but I wonder if they will raise their game the next couple seasons and challange again or start a decline?
Pendles and Mayne are the only two on that 30+ list who were in our top 22 by default in the Prelim. No reason why Collingwood can’t continue to challenge for another 2-3 years before the rebuild is required.

Our B&F top 5 last night included Grundy (25), Crisp (26), Treloar (27), Maynard (23) and Pendles.

In contrast, Richmond might be closer to the stage of needing to rebuild when you see -

31: Houli, Edwards, Reiwoldt
30: Rance
29: Cotchin, Astbury
28: Martin, Grimes

Outside Prestia and Lynch, the above group would be your best players.
 

PieLebo87

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If we didn’t have those guys, we’d have Heath Shaw (Adams), pick 7 in ‘15 and pick 8 in ‘16 (Treloar) as well as pick 25 in ‘17 (WHE) so I’d hardly include Collingwood in this argument. We gave up a fair share to receive those players in trades.
 

Marcel Proust

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Pendles and Mayne are the only two on that 30+ list who were in our top 22 by default in the Prelim. No reason why Collingwood can’t continue to challenge for another 2-3 years before the rebuild is required.

Our B&F top 5 last night included Grundy (25), Crisp (26), Treloar (27), Maynard (23) and Pendles.

In contrast, Richmond might be closer to the stage of needing to rebuild when you see -

31: Houli, Edwards, Reiwoldt
30: Rance
29: Cotchin, Astbury
28: Martin, Grimes

Outside Prestia and Lynch, the above group would be your best players.
obviously all clubs at the top rely on their older players somewhat outside of GWS who have been artificially created to have a number of guns in the mids 20s range now, so are an exception. I agree with you somewhat but generally the Richmond list is in a healthy position i think. the b and f in yet another premiership season shows a pretty decent spread for mine:

2019 Jack Dyer Medal

1st Dion Prestia, 91 votes
2nd Shane Edwards, 79 votes
3rd Dylan Grimes, 75 votes
4th Nick Vlastuin, 70 votes
5th Tom Lynch, 69 votes
6th Dustin Martin, 67 votes
7th Bachar Houli, 64 votes
8th Kane Lambert, 63 votes
9th David Astbury, 55 votes
Equal 10th Jason Castagna, 47 votes
Equal 10th Daniel Rioli, 47 votes

Like the Pies fan says above 28 isnt the end of the world yet. Grimes, Martin, Astbury etc. might have decent footy left in them who knows
 

PieLebo87

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obviously all clubs at the top rely on their older players somewhat outside of GWS who have been artificially created to have a number of guns in the mids 20s range now, so are an exception. I agree with you somewhat but generally the Richmond list is in a healthy position i think. the b and f in yet another premiership season shows a pretty decent spread for mine:

2019 Jack Dyer Medal

1st Dion Prestia, 91 votes
2nd Shane Edwards, 79 votes
3rd Dylan Grimes, 75 votes
4th Nick Vlastuin, 70 votes
5th Tom Lynch, 69 votes
6th Dustin Martin, 67 votes
7th Bachar Houli, 64 votes
8th Kane Lambert, 63 votes
9th David Astbury, 55 votes
Equal 10th Jason Castagna, 47 votes
Equal 10th Daniel Rioli, 47 votes

Like the Pies fan says above 28 isnt the end of the world yet. Grimes, Martin, Astbury etc. might have decent footy left in them who knows
Absolutely another 2 years at least from the Tigers before it passes 12 O’clock.

Mind you there are names like Stack, Pickett and a few youngsters who are unknown variables that could/should very easily take over the mantle of those top tiered players within the next 12 months anyway.
 

Marcel Proust

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Pendles and Mayne are the only two on that 30+ list who were in our top 22 by default in the Prelim.
One problem is the pies lost to a side that almost lost the grand final by 100 points. The previous years was arguable a better team the wce/pies game included:

goldsack 31
pendelbury 30
varcose 30
greenwood 29
mayne 29
howe 28
cox 27
sidebottom 27

(ages at time of game) - the pies could well continue to challenge for the next couple years but Collingwood, Geelong, Hawthorn (and richmond i guess) have funny looking list demographics and itll be interesting to see how it unfolds.
 

PieLebo87

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One problem is the pies lost to a side that almost lost the grand final by 100 points. The previous years was arguable a better team the wce/pies game included:

goldsack 31
pendelbury 30
varcose 30
greenwood 29
mayne 29
howe 28
cox 27
sidebottom 27

(ages at time of game) - the pies could well continue to challenge for the next couple years but Collingwood, Geelong, Hawthorn (and richmond i guess) have funny looking list demographics and itll be interesting to see how it unfolds.
Roughead is a real upgrade as a KPD on Goldsack and finished in the top 10 of our B&F last night.

You’ve mentioned Varcoe a couple of times, but he is nothing but depth now for Collingwood. He didn’t play in September at all for us, despite losing Greenwood and JDG.

Greenwood was playing Aish’s role whilst he was out injured. Aish is just 23.

Mayne is a role player, and not important from a skills perspective. We have anyone of Quaynor, Sier and Daicos to come in and play his role, all of which are under 23-24.

Howe still has another 2-3 years of good football left in him, and someone similar who missed majority of the season is Langdon, 25, who has to come back into our defence. He was one of the best players in last year’s final series.

I wouldn’t be pressing reset just yet because of anyone 27 or turning 27 either so won’t go into detail about the others you mentioned.

Out of curiosity, who are the replacements for the ones I mentioned?
 

Marcel Proust

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Roughead is a real upgrade as a KPD on Goldsack and finished in the top 10 of our B&F last night.

You’ve mentioned Varcoe a couple of times, but he is nothing but depth now for Collingwood. He didn’t play in September at all for us, despite losing Greenwood and JDG.

Greenwood was playing Aish’s role whilst he was out injured. Aish is just 23.

Mayne is a role player, and not important from a skills perspective. We have anyone of Quaynor, Sier and Daicos to come in and play his role, all of which are under 23-24.

Howe still has another 2-3 years of good football left in him, and someone similar who missed majority of the season is Langdon, 25, who has to come back into our defence. He was one of the best players in last year’s final series.

I wouldn’t be pressing reset just yet because of anyone 27 or turning 27 either so won’t go into detail about the others you mentioned.

Out of curiosity, who are the replacements for the ones I mentioned?
To start with one, I guess its been proven Rance can be replaced, now.

I would not have thought that six months ago.
 

Meteoric Rise

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Hmmm... Conca was widely ridiculed as a wasted top 10 draft pick. He has also left the club.

Prestia came to us at the end of 2016, a year where we bombed. There’s a thread in the bay calling him dumb as dogs**t for choosing us, and a thread on the main board ridiculing his and the club’s decision.

Caddy came to us from Geelong. Not really fair to say we benefitted from Gold Coast.

Lynch came to us after spending 8 fruitless seasons on the Gold Coast. It was probably always inevitable that he’d return to Victoria, and we did have to compete with Collingwood and Hawthorn for his signature. Thankfully we’d built a club culture that appealed to him more than the Pies and Hawks, as well as the other Vic club’s.
Gold Coast effectively sold Prestia to Richmond for what they paid for him, equivalent value of about pick 9, but to be used in the 2016 draft. Lynch came to Richmond via free agency on $1m average per season, another first round pick from that era, Ellis, goes back from Tigers to GCS on under $600k per season, allowing space in their cap to bring in another strong player. The transactions are not without cost to Richmond nor without benefit to the Suns.
 

GoTigers2015

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Pendles and Mayne are the only two on that 30+ list who were in our top 22 by default in the Prelim. No reason why Collingwood can’t continue to challenge for another 2-3 years before the rebuild is required.

Our B&F top 5 last night included Grundy (25), Crisp (26), Treloar (27), Maynard (23) and Pendles.

In contrast, Richmond might be closer to the stage of needing to rebuild when you see -

31: Houli, Edwards, Reiwoldt
30: Rance
29: Cotchin, Astbury
28: Martin, Grimes

Outside Prestia and Lynch, the above group would be your best players.
You are forgetting Marlion Pickett.
 

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Marcel Proust

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Calling him amongst your best players after 1 game?
almost won the norm smith so yeah

collingwood are the oldest list in the afl and lean big time on the dads army blokes to remain competitive

you left out Vlastuin too

2019 Jack Dyer Medal [premiership season]

1st Dion Prestia, 91 votes
2nd Shane Edwards, 79 votes
3rd Dylan Grimes, 75 votes
4th Nick Vlastuin, 70 votes
5th Tom Lynch, 69 votes

grimes isnt ancient either and has missed a lot of footy due to injury - might have a few years left in him. He is a young 28.
 
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juss

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You are forgetting Marlion Pickett.
Calling him amongst your best players after 1 game?
He looks like he can play. But you couldn't possibly make that statement yet, and it's a pretty stupid one to make.
Yes he played a great GF, but it was a training run, we would have won by 10 goals+ regardless of who you replaced Pickett with that day.

I don't think he'll be in our best 10 necessarily, but he potentially could for a couple of seasons. Way too early to call it now though.
 

RobR

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almost won the norm smith so yeah

collingwood are the oldest list in the afl and lean big time on the dads army blokes to remain competitive

you left out Vlastuin too

2019 Jack Dyer Medal [premiership season]

1st Dion Prestia, 91 votes
2nd Shane Edwards, 79 votes
3rd Dylan Grimes, 75 votes
4th Nick Vlastuin, 70 votes
5th Tom Lynch, 69 votes

grimes isnt ancient either and has missed a lot of footy due to injury - might have a few years left in him
Mate there could have been half a dozen players who couldn't get a game that could've almost won the Norm Smith. There was no pressure at all, sure he looked good and was a good pick up but lets wait and see how he goes next season.
 

Marcel Proust

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Mate there could have been half a dozen players who couldn't get a game that could've almost won the Norm Smith. There was no pressure at all, sure he looked good and was a good pick up but lets wait and see how he goes next season.
if i recall correctly richmond were losing prior to pickett entering the field of play, or winning only just

he is a special cat and i think there is a good chance of him being regarded as one of richmons better players sooner rather than later. - he only played two thirds of the game and had brilliant impact and stats.

hasnt had an afl preseason yet...
 

Pistol Night

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And its started.......again. Richmond fans ..... just add a flag and they turn into complete flogs.

Can Big Footy please delevop an ignor button for teams please!

Then Tigers fans can just come on here and blow hot air up each others arses without troubling the rest of us.

Now trot off and go thank Gill and the boys for that gift wrapped flag you just won.
So true, Compare Richmond supporters to West Coast supporters after their flags. And i support the team that the Eagles rolled! I guess theyre letting out some anger after 37 years of coping shit. Kinda like the school nerd that becomes the shopping centre security gaurd with a segway.
 

FRUMPY

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Hawks benefited most by the introduction of GC and GWS. Top of the table team in their prime - no other team could get access to any great talent for a couple of years, introduction of free agency helped the hawks top up their great side (yes i know they lost buddy, but it showed he wasnt that big a loss in the great scheme of things)
 

jreesosb

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Lynch and Prestia were brilliant moves.
They lost out on a crack at Brodie for Prestia but got a ready made player for the spot he'd develop into
Lynch was a no brainer. Top 5 key forward in the comp. Free hit. Whoever got him was getting a big upgrade to their list.

Both clubs were going to be ripe for the picking. You can't hold that many elite kids together.
GCS lost their cream. GWS kept theirs. One is a wooden spooner, the other a GF runner up.

Richmond & Collingwood have picked their targets nicely from these clubs.

citizen-erased this post is far too rational for BigFooty :)
 

PieLebo87

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He looks like he can play. But you couldn't possibly make that statement yet, and it's a pretty stupid one to make.
Yes he played a great GF, but it was a training run, we would have won by 10 goals+ regardless of who you replaced Pickett with that day.

I don't think he'll be in our best 10 necessarily, but he potentially could for a couple of seasons. Way too early to call it now though.
My views exactly. Well said.
 

Wallaby

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Back to the OP - let's not forget that trades can go both ways.

In the 9 seasons that GWS have been in the comp, they have secured from other clubs:

Deledio - No 1 draft pick
Griffen - No 3 draft pick
Davis - No 10 draft pick
Palmer - No 7 draft pick
Chad Cornes - No 9 draft pick
Luke Power - No 5 draft pick (OK - he was getting his retirement payout)
Oh - and Callan Ward, who was amongst the best young players in the country at the time.

Gold Coast managed to trade for the best player in the comp back in 2011.

The expansion clubs can, and did, trade for players as much as anyone.

As for
"2. Gold Coast and to a lesser extent GWS, and the lack of player interest in sticking around at those clubs
3. Endorsements/media income in Victoria, which makes the salary cap a bit of a farce"


Maybe the AFL should have put the cubs somewhere else. Gee, if only there was another state other than Vic, Sa and WA that had a great football culture and history, that would have plenty of potential for off-field endorsements. That could have been an attractive proposition for young players. But, of course, the AFL as self-appopinted custodian of our game, would never ignore an important part of our game's heritage, just to create a couple of instant franchises for the TV networks.
 

Marcel Proust

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Pendles and Mayne are the only two on that 30+ list who were in our top 22 by default in the Prelim. No reason why Collingwood can’t continue to challenge for another 2-3 years before the rebuild is required.

Our B&F top 5 last night included Grundy (25), Crisp (26), Treloar (27), Maynard (23) and Pendles.

In contrast, Richmond might be closer to the stage of needing to rebuild when you see -

31: Houli, Edwards, Reiwoldt
30: Rance
29: Cotchin, Astbury
28: Martin, Grimes

Outside Prestia and Lynch, the above group would be your best players.
Hopefully Richmonds 15 dual premiership players and 8 premiership players can help the transition period when its time to introduce the new wave
 
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