Richmond List Changes

[tugga]

He was trolling. I think Martin is 2 years away from breaking out as a midfielder and I'm happy with him developing his forward game while this happens. Needs a bigger tank. He's tracking pretty well compared to a Dangerfield.

I also think opposition clubs have figured him out as they often do with second year players. It's just taken an extra year to stop him. He will come out the other side better.

Well if he was, at least he put some time into it.
With Martin, I don't think his kicking is good enough to be an outright mid. He is a long and penetrating kick, but his field kicking at around 25m to 40m is not a strong point. I notice he has improved a bit this year but it will need to improve significantly more. Compare him to Cotchin and Deledio and he lags behind in this area. He is a menace up forward though.
I do agree with developing him up forward. He is still a baby in reletive terms. I just think I would prefer a 29-possession 3-goal game from DM than a 35-possession 0-goals given the way he currently is tracking.

 

[tigs2010]

Well if he was, at least he put some time into it.
With Martin, I don't think his kicking is good enough to be an outright mid. He is a long and penetrating kick, but his field kicking at around 25m to 40m is not a strong point. I notice he has improved a bit this year but it will need to improve significantly more. Compare him to Cotchin and Deledio and he lags behind in this area. He is a menace up forward though.
I do agree with developing him up forward. He is still a baby in reletive terms. I just think I would prefer a 29-possession 3-goal game from DM than a 35-possession 0-goals given the way he currently is tracking.

No doubt but I don't think he can get 29 possies as a forward. If Conca turns out the way we want and we get another gun mid this year which I think we will then we have the luxury to keep him forward or 50/50. Ideally I'd like to see him spend about 40% forward which could get him his 3 goals. And the other 60 in the middle where he could get 25-30 touches.

In regards to his kicking that should get better as his tank gets better as will the teams. Look how rubbish the whole teams kicking is late in terms. Martin is probably down the bottom in terms of fitness so his kicking gets worse earlier. Brandon Ellis is similar. His kicking fell apart as the season wore on but he also looked like he was running on the spot.

 

[tugga]

No doubt but I don't think he can get 29 possies as a forward. If Conca turns out the way we want and we get another gun mid this year which I think we will then we have the luxury to keep him forward or 50/50. Ideally I'd like to see him spend about 40% forward which could get him his 3 goals. And the other 60 in the middle where he could get 25-30 touches.

In regards to his kicking that should get better as his tank gets better as will the teams. Look how rubbish the whole teams kicking is late in terms. Martin is probably down the bottom in terms of fitness so his kicking gets worse earlier. Brandon Ellis is similar. His kicking fell apart as the season wore on but he also looked like he was running on the spot.

Shit. I meant 20 possessions not 29.
He is a beast of a match up in the forward line. Imagine him spending 80% game time on a rabbit like Harry O'Brien?

 

[tigs2010]

Shit. I meant 20 possessions not 29.
He is a beast of a match up in the forward line. Imagine him spending 80% game time on a rabbit like Harry O'Brien?

Haha fair enough. That would be more achievable. However, it was only last year he was getting 30+ and being able to kick 4 or 5 goals. I still think he will be able to recapture those games next year as he develops his game over this pre-season and then 2014 he can do it more consistently.

 

[_RT_]

Griffiths looks set to be in defense for another year. Mcguane is ahead of elton and astbury, they will have to either wait for Luke to get injured or really show something in VFL consistently.

I wouldn't be basing that on what McGuane delivered at the end of this season. McGuane only really got a go because the other 2 weren't ready because of immaturity(Elton) and recovering from injury(Astbury). Like this year when everyone is up and running McGuane will go back to being a depth player at Coburg.

 

[_RT_]

Haha fair enough. That would be more achievable. However, it was only last year he was getting 30+ and being able to kick 4 or 5 goals. I still think he will be able to recapture those games next year as he develops his game over this pre-season and then 2014 he can do it more consistently.

Hardwick has mentioned a few times that he wants to be able to rotate Martin & Cotchin through the forward line rather than sending them to the bench for a break. Because of our lack of depth in the midfield once Foley & Conca went down we weren't able to do this as much as we wanted to. Next year with the addition of Foley & Conca, perhaps Knights and a couple more kids coming in, we're likely to see this happen more often. This will allow both Martin and Cotchin to become very dangerous up forward.

 

[Dags21]

Wow, we might have the most crowded F50 in the afl next year... Jack,Vicks, martin, Edwards, king, nahas, mcguane, knights, astbury... Feel the squeeze!

 

[wart101]

Gee, so much anger directed towards an opposition supporter with an opinion and who isn't afraid to voice it. Relax peeps, our board is better than this. We are welcoming folk.
With regards to Martin, I think people expect a lot from him. What I don't think he is, is a 35-possession midfielder. He just isn't that type of player. I see him more as a forward who pinch hits in the middle. Maybe more than pinch hits, but I want to see him alternating a lot more in the forward line and I think the club is addressing this as we speak by targetting a few big bodied mids in FA as well as the draft.
I think he is our Tom Rockliff. Good in the middle, but probably more dangerous up forward. Ironically, Brisbane find themselves in the same boat as us as an emerging side and arelooking to do exactly the same with Rockliff as what our brains trust is trying to do with DM.
Trade Martin? No way. Bullocking mid/forwards who send a shiver up the spine of opposition players just don't grow on trees and they can't just be plucked from the draft either. To trade away Martin would be to trade away an asset I don't think we can afford to lose. When we are challenging in two years time, Martin will be the type of player that wins us finals.

Tugg, it was the comment about feeling sorry for us that got up my goat!!!! that is insulting dude! I'm cool for opinion but that seemed more like a troll in disguise than a real opinion!

I am rapt the crows crumbbled i am so sick of hearing there up themselfs bull, i might go for a drive straight after the match to watch all the glum faces driving back from AMMI HAHAHAHAHA besides that, back to guildwars for me!

 

[tugga]

Tugg, it was the comment about feeling sorry for us that got up my goat!!!! that is insulting dude!

People do feel sorry for us though. It's a fact. 2 finals appearances in 30 years is an inescapable fact. Only one way to change all that.

 

[wart101]

People do feel sorry for us though. It's a fact. 2 finals appearances in 30 years is an inescapable fact. Only one way to change all that.

True and i dont want to argue with you but i just wouldn't just say that to someone.

 

[THE_GUN]

Im starting to get sick of this habit we have gotten into of turning just about everu natural foward we recruit into defenders.
McGuane was a foward
Gourdis never played 1 day in defence untill he came to richmond then never played a day up foward
Astbury
Post
Griffiths

I just want to see players being played in their natural positions for a change

 

[wart101]

Im starting to get sick of this habit we have gotten into of turning just about everu natural foward we recruit into defenders.
McGuane was a foward
Gourdis never played 1 day in defence untill he came to richmond then never played a day up foward
Astbury
Post
Griffiths

I just want to see players being played in their natural positions for a change

Dont all clubs do this?

 

[tigs2010]

Dont all clubs do this?

Yep. Not a huge number of players are recruited as defenders.

 

[Livonski]

People do feel sorry for us though. It's a fact. 2 finals appearances in 30 years is an inescapable fact. Only one way to change all that.

I had no anger, but a little annoyed to get that from a Pie with O'Brien and Maxwell to deal with in their defence. On a day when serious question marks are on Didak, Swan (20 meaningless possies), Thomas etc he wants to talk about a kid that is still learning the game. So no, he aint a 35 possession Swan, but he's the most dangerous weapon we have to turn a game on its head. Jeez he's going to do some damage as the team in general improves.

 

[acr2751]

martin is the type of player that could a big final on its head in a 5 min burst i dont think we will be trading him any time soon
if you suggest it you deserve a spray

 

[DrMike]

yeah but for tom the window for potential has almost come and gone some would say!

Bit like Tuck?

I'm not saying you're right or wrong but it's a bit naive to only judge a player on their age.

 

[theflea]

Yep. Not a huge number of players are recruited as defenders.

in fact hardly any.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Wow, we might have the most crowded F50 in the afl next year... Jack,Vicks, martin, Edwards, king, nahas, mcguane, knights, astbury... Feel the squeeze!

Good isn't it , the day we have midfielders who can pinch hit forward rather than forwards who can resemble a midfielder the better .
Lids , Cotchin , Foley , Martin and Tuck will add more forward consistantly than someone like Nahas and will have opposition sides shitting themselves .
I personally see Conca assuming Newy's role within the back pocket , releasing Newy to a wing , Knights and pick 9 assuming Nahas role within the forward line and should add more within our midfield rotations .

C: Grigg Cotchin Newman
Hf : lids Astbury Dusty
Ff: King Jr8 Vickery

Foll : Maric Tuck Foley
Int: knights Edwards pick9 Ellis

We instantly gain more midfield depth And alot more dangerous forward line, which are both significant needs and we slowly get closer to having 10 midfield rotations .
If we can develop Helbig into Morris' backline role and release Morris into the midfield we are going to be a very very good side .

 

[pebblestone]

If we can develop Helbig into Morris' backline role and release Morris into the midfield we are going to be a very very good side .

RP I'd prefer to see Helbig in the middle and Morris stay down back. I think Steve's desperation and attack on the ball is great, and I am a massive fan, but let's be honest, he tends to overcommit, and I reckon that suits a stopping/negating defender better than a midfielder.

I also reckon if he threw himself in like that about 3 times as often, as he probs would in the midfield, he would end up injured too often.

Helbig was recruited as an inside mid, and I reckon he is very good in traffic, just had a bad run with injuries. He also seems to be a slightly bigger man (may be wrong, just judging from appearances. I have big hopes for Helbig next season, and think he will be the biggest improver on the list. Just my 2c.

 

[Dags21]

Must say RP, I'm not much of a nahas-forward fan... Get th ball, run 3-4 steps, stop, duck... We could really use some unpredictable small forwards, tho I see some on BF saying we should draft garlett, hope he's as good as what they believe, and is available at #9

 

[Calcium Man]

Yep. Not a huge number of players are recruited as defenders.

Yep this.

I think people have forgotten how important a position CHB is with midfielders becoming more and more prominent stars along side KPF's. The best CHB of the 00's Lepper, Lake, Ried, Cornes, Croad, Pavlich and heck even Joel Bowden were all recruited as Forwards. Griff with his kicking and excellent decision making could be the next great CHB, needs to work on his over head stuff, body work and reading the play still.

 

[MadTigerFan]

Lids HF? and lol Astbury.

Why would we put our best small defender who can mind players like Milne and Betts into the midfield?

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

RP I'd prefer to see Helbig in the middle and Morris stay down back. I think Steve's desperation and attack on the ball is great, and I am a massive fan, but let's be honest, he tends to overcommit, and I reckon that suits a stopping/negating defender better than a midfielder.

I also reckon if he threw himself in like that about 3 times as often, as he probs would in the midfield, he would end up injured too often.

Helbig was recruited as an inside mid, and I reckon he is very good in traffic, just had a bad run with injuries. He also seems to be a slightly bigger man (may be wrong, just judging from appearances. I have big hopes for Helbig next season, and think he will be the biggest improver on the list. Just my 2c.

Morris was equally admired for his role as a defensive mid as a small defender before joining us. I just think Morris is a little further in his development and are a strong supporter of kids who come into the AFL and are struggling to pick up the speed being used behind the ball , which is where I see Helbig .

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Lids HF? and lol Astbury.

Why would we put our best small defender who can mind players like Milne and Betts into the midfield?

Players like Betts and Milne don't get a kick if your midfield is on top and pressurizing the opposition midfield when they have the ball .
Lids HFF , change him with Tuck , Foley or Cotchin if you like , it wasn't as I was suggesting he should stay there all game ?

 

[Dags21]

Seen some footage of helbig as a junior and thought he was a really good kick of th ball- reminded me of Luke hodges kicking style.. Haven't seen this at afl level yet, but hope he is our most improved player next season.. I think sometimes we get caught up in trying to find th easy answer to our problems.ie get this player from this club, etc. nothing develops talent better than hard work and dimma must push this message to our young and fringe players..just my opinion...