Richmond or Geelong?

[Mr Eagle]

Which pre-season game will be better to go and see?

- vs Richmond, a high-quality 2001 finalist, who will probably whip our butts (unless they're all picked up for DUI on the way to Tullamarine)

- vs Geelong, a strong contender for this year's Wooden Spoon but much more likely to give us a win and make us feel good about ourselves (assuming the club can afford the trip over here)

 

[iceman]

Richmond - they might at least give us an indication of where we're at...

I'd ideally like to go to both but as we only get one free entry, i might just go to that one

 

[GoEagles]

Richmond for me too. Although Menchsy will still be a huge drawcard for the Cats

 

[jod23]

Yeah definitely Richmond....depending on who they bring over should give us a better indication of where were at.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by Mr Eagle
Which pre-season game will be better to go and see?

- vs Geelong, a strong contender for this year's Wooden Spoon but much more likely to give us a win and make us feel good about ourselves (assuming the club can afford the trip over here)

Geelong are shocking aren't they? Only managed to beat your Eagles by a collective 150 points in the two meetings last year.

Good to see ignorance is still going strong over there in Perth.

 

[jod23]

Re: Re: Richmond or Geelong?

Originally posted by phatandphreaky


Geelong are shocking aren't they? Only managed to beat your Eagles by a collective 150 points in the two meetings last year.

Good to see ignorance is still going strong over there in Perth.

Cmon P&P you know aswell as we do that Geelong will suck next year.

 

[Mr Eagle]

Re: Re: Richmond or Geelong?

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Good to see ignorance is still going strong over there in Perth.

Awww diddums, did I say not nice things about your team, phats? Face it mate, Geelong are in strong contention for the spoon this year, just like both WA teams and the Saints are.

You'll notice I didn't say "we are better than the Cats", I said that victory over Geelong was much more likely than victory over Richmond. Now this I feel is fair for two reasons:

1) Richmond was a serious contender in 2001, Geelong was not.
2) Richmond looks set for a better 2002 than Geelong.

If that's ignorance, then call me ignorant...but I don't think you'll find many people willing to say that Geelong is a better team than Richmond.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Re: Re: Re: Richmond or Geelong?

Originally posted by Mr Eagle

Awww diddums, did I say not nice things about your team, phats? Face it mate, Geelong are in strong contention for the spoon this year, just like both WA teams and the Saints are.

You'll notice I didn't say "we are better than the Cats", I said that victory over Geelong was much more likely than victory over Richmond. Now this I feel is fair for two reasons:

1) Richmond was a serious contender in 2001, Geelong was not.
2) Richmond looks set for a better 2002 than Geelong.

If that's ignorance, then call me ignorant...but I don't think you'll find many people willing to say that Geelong is a better team than Richmond.

When did i say that Geelong were a better than Richmond?

BTW Why is Geelong a "strong contender" for the wooden spoon?

Geelong won 9 games in 2001, 4 more than the eagles and 7 more than the wooden spooners, Fremantle.

Why will they drop off so drastically?

 

[Mr Eagle]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Richmond or Geelong?

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
When did i say that Geelong were a better than Richmond?

When you called me ignorant in response to my saying we were more likely to beat Geelong than we were Richmond. Or was your response made without actually reading what I said?

BTW Why is Geelong a "strong contender" for the wooden spoon?

Most every betting odds list I have seen has Geelong at low Spoon odds ($3.50-$6.00ish), most higher than the Eagles obviously, but in several cases on the same rung as Freo and the Saints. And if you go over the many threads on the main board about the 2002 ladder, you'll find quite a few BigFooty folk predicting dire things for the Catters in 2002.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Richmond or Geelong?

Originally posted by Mr Eagle

Most every betting odds list I have seen has Geelong at low Spoon odds ($3.50-$6.00ish), most higher than the Eagles obviously, but in several cases on the same rung as Freo and the Saints. And if you go over the many threads on the main board about the 2002 ladder, you'll find quite a few BigFooty folk predicting dire things for the Catters in 2002.

So they are going to perform badly because 'quite a few bigfooty folk predicting dire things' ?

That is a pretty lame reason, surely you can justify your view of their chances, or are you a little ignorant of football in the eastern states?

Out of interest, how many times have you seen Geelong play LIVE?

 

[TheRealBuzz]

Phatandphreaky, I'm not going to underestimate Geelong.
You've got a great coach, a great captain, great ruckman and two very underrated young defenders in Scarlett and Harley.
Plus Brian Cook is running the place - always a good thing.

But even you must admit that there are quite a few good reasons why people are predicting you to fall down the ladder.

1) The loss of Murphy (who was probably your best player last year) from an already weak midfield.

2) David Spriggs' injury. Very talented young midfielder, and it was a real shame to see him get injured. It again weakens your midfield.

3) The retirement of Hocking.

Who will fill the void these guys leave?
- Tim Clarke is a talent, but he's still very young.
- Riccardi seems to have a lot of injury problems.
- Aaron Lord???

When we meet in two weeks, we'll have guys like Cousins, Kerr, Wirrpunda, Matera, Braun, Jones, Read and Fletcher all rotating through the middle.
And that makes me very optimistic.

Not that that means much.

 

[Mr Eagle]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Richmond or Geelong?

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
So they are going to perform badly because 'quite a few bigfooty folk predicting dire things' ?

No, they're going to perform badly because I am yet to find anyone anywhere in any neutral capacity who can suggest otherwise. Show me the raft of enlightened opinions that suggest a positive outlook for Geelong this season.

Looking at the squad I honestly can't see how you rationally get your hopes up any further than we at West Coast can. Geelong's squad is very similar to West Coast's: a handful of bonafide stars (King, Graham, Cousins, Gardiner), some youth with potential (Scarlett, Spriggs* etc, Kerr, Judd etc), a few old blokes floating around in imperfect form(Riccardi, McGrath, Matera, Jakovich), and the rest comprised mainly of middle-aged mediocre guys (you have Aaron Lord, we have Greg Harding...). Hell, you've even got a Troy Wilson called David Mensch!

Further, Centrebet says:
Premiership: Geelong on the second-last line of odds
Top Eight: Geelong on the second-last line of odds
Wooden Spoon: Third line
First coach to be sacked: Bomer Thompson, second line, beaten only by 'No coach to be sacked'

I don't see any beacons of joy calling to me...

 

[jod23]

Gotta agree with Mr Eagle here P&P....neither of us have anything really to look forward to next year, we have very similar lists and as he stated before.....we do have a much better chance at beating Geelong than we do Richmond.

He never had a go at Geelong, all he simply said was that we have a better chance against Geelong....which to me is just perfect sense?

 

[goal_umpire]

Originally posted by TheRealBuzz
Phatandphreaky, I'm not going to underestimate Geelong.
You've got a great coach, a great captain, great ruckman and two very underrated young defenders in Scarlett and Harley.
Plus Brian Cook is running the place - always a good thing.

But even you must admit that there are quite a few good reasons why people are predicting you to fall down the ladder.

1) The loss of Murphy (who was probably your best player last year) from an already weak midfield.

2) David Spriggs' injury. Very talented young midfielder, and it was a real shame to see him get injured. It again weakens your midfield.

3) The retirement of Hocking.

Who will fill the void these guys leave?
- Tim Clarke is a talent, but he's still very young.
- Riccardi seems to have a lot of injury problems.
- Aaron Lord???

When we meet in two weeks, we'll have guys like Cousins, Kerr, Wirrpunda, Matera, Braun, Jones, Read and Fletcher all rotating through the middle.
And that makes me very optimistic.

Not that that means much.

Both Geelong and Richmond will thrash the living daylights out of the eagles

 

[eagleskickass]

Originally posted by suzi_olsen

Both Geelong and Richmond will thrash the living daylights out of the eagles

Hey Suzi, would you like to back that statement up with proof.
Maybe make some match ups of geelong and eagles and show which ones are REALLY gonna tear us apart so that they can flog us. Maybe do the same with richmond, although they have a much better chance to do that imo.

Don't just take the easy option and say something in spite of the Eagles. And you get at us for doing the same thing, hows about you pull your end of the line, and don't call others hypocrites when you yourself are one.
Don't throw rocks in a glass house or whatever it is!

 

[goal_umpire]

Originally posted by eagleskickass


Hey Suzi, would you like to back that statement up with proof.
Maybe make some match ups of geelong and eagles and show which ones are REALLY gonna tear us apart so that they can flog us. Maybe do the same with richmond, although they have a much better chance to do that imo.

Don't just take the easy option and say something in spite of the Eagles. And you get at us for doing the same thing, hows about you pull your end of the line, and don't call others hypocrites when you yourself are one.
Don't throw rocks in a glass house or whatever it is!

Well I know for one thing the eagles won't get into the final 8. They will finish 16th two lower than last year. They will not win a game this year the eagles.

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by suzi_olsen


Well I know for one thing the eagles won't get into the final 8. They will finish 16th two lower than last year. They will not win a game this year the eagles.

Inflamatory, provocative and juvenile IMO

Are you really Mantis?


In answer to question.......I will be going to both

 

[Fall Out Boy]

I don't for a second think Geelong are going to make the finals BUT i do not think that all of a sudden they will be at the bottom either.

I see Geelong finishing between 8th and 12th.

I saw the Eagles play 5 times live last season, if Geelong aren't a 3-4 goal better side i know nothing about football.

I understand the Eagles had a lot of injuries last season BUT that doesn't excuse getting absolutely hammered by an average side in Geelong.

The Eagles side of Round 1 2001 was the WORST side i have seen since Richmond in 1989, they were an absolute rabble with no spine whatsover.

I have read many a comment about WC winning a premiership by 2004, that is totally unrealistic.

In 2002 i see the Eagles winning 5-7 games and Geelong winning between 8-10.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Richmond or Geelong?

Originally posted by Mr Eagle


First coach to be sacked: Bomer Thompson, second line, beaten only by 'No coach to be sacked'

I don't see any beacons of joy calling to me...

Gee thats a true indication of Geelong's chances

Frank Costa has already said that Mark Thompson will not be sacked this season, hell he even was willing to put $1M of his own money on the fact.

He also said that if Geelong sack Thompson the board will resign.

It isn't going to happen.

 

[Mr Eagle]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Richmond or Geelong?

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Gee thats a true indication of Geelong's chances

OK OK, so first coach to go is rarely the most accurate of predictions, I admit but I would put little faith in the promises of a football club's board, particularly one like Geelong where there is little or no room for the club to go backwards off the field. Ken Judge had the full support of West Coast's board, ditto Drummy at Freo and probably Blighty at the Saints too. If the club's season starts going sour and the fans start calling for blood, Bomber will get the axe...and then the excuses will roll out: "We only did it because you demanded it, so no we're not going to resign after all", "A club in difficult times needs a stable board, so no we're not going to resign after all" etc etc etc

(Or is all this just my contempt for Michael Smith showing up again? )

 

[Voice of Reason]

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
I saw the Eagles play 5 times live last season, if Geelong aren't a 3-4 goal better side i know nothing about football.

I understand the Eagles had a lot of injuries last season BUT that doesn't excuse getting absolutely hammered by an average side in Geelong.

The Eagles side of Round 1 2001 was the WORST side i have seen since Richmond in 1989, they were an absolute rabble with no spine whatsover.

Phaty, you are of course welcome to your opinion and I respect it.

I submit that, off the top of my head, Fremantle, St Kilda and Fitzroy have been worse sides at various times in the timescale you mention.

We have discussed Round 1 last year before - I was there too - and you're right, we were terrible. However, as you also know, we lost Sierakowski, Glass and Cummings in the first quarter. Any side losing three talls interstate in those circumstances would struggle.

We Eagle fans have faith that things will gradually improve under a decent coach. Instant success, no, but gradual improvement until we reestablish our place at the top, yes.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Richmond or Geelong?

Originally posted by Mr Eagle

OK OK, so first coach to go is rarely the most accurate of predictions, I admit but I would put little faith in the promises of a football club's board, particularly one like Geelong where there is little or no room for the club to go backwards off the field.

Where did you get that idea from?

Geelong, under the guidance of the best CEO in the country, Brian Cook, have reduced their debt significantly and are in the best financial situation they have been in for decades.

BTW Geelong don't sack coaches

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by Voice of Reason


Phaty, you are of course welcome to your opinion and I respect it.

I submit that, off the top of my head, Fremantle, St Kilda and Fitzroy have been worse sides at various times in the timescale you mention.

We have discussed Round 1 last year before - I was there too - and you're right, we were terrible. However, as you also know, we lost Sierakowski, Glass and Cummings in the first quarter. Any side losing three talls interstate in those circumstances would struggle.

We Eagle fans have faith that things will gradually improve under a decent coach. Instant success, no, but gradual improvement until we reestablish our place at the top, yes.

Just out of interest, what makes John Worsfold a "decent coach"? and why was Ken Judge not a "decent coach"?

Ken Judge was head hunted by WC after a showing a great deal of coaching talent at Hawthorn, where did all this ability go?

Maybe just maybe Messr Judge is being used as a scapegoat?

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by Voice of Reason


We have discussed Round 1 last year before - I was there too - and you're right, we were terrible. However, as you also know, we lost Sierakowski, Glass and Cummings in the first quarter. Any side losing three talls interstate in those circumstances would struggle.

It wasn't just Round 1, when Geelong played you in Perth you again got thrashed and again looked terrible.

In that game, you were up by 18 points around half time and lost by 70 points to a very ordinary football side.

That sort of thing leaves a lasting impression, especially since Geelong have only had two big wins in the last 4 years, both against WC and both in 2001.

I see similarities between our lists, i think the only difference is in the ruck.
Our ruckman has become a champion yet your ruckman is still a fair way off.
Steven King was an All-Australian at the age of 21, he is vital to our success, its no coincendence that we went from finals contenders to also rans when King did his knee.

If Gardiner can take the next step in 2002 i think the Eagles are capable of winning up to 10 games, BUT if he doesn't become an elite ruckman you may well struggle to avoid the wooden spoon

 

[Mr Eagle]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Richmond or Geelong?

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Geelong, under the guidance of the best CEO in the country, Brian Cook, have reduced their debt significantly and are in the best financial situation they have been in for decades.

Cook and co have done an admirable job in difficult circumstances, but the club's debt is still around $2m-2.5m, and if the on-field performance carks it, the headway being made into the club's debts could easily be lost. Unlike big interstate teams like West Coast, Geelong will live and die by its ability to win games and transform that into money in the bank.