Autopsy Richmond v Carlton, AFL Rd 1 2020 - Thursday 19 March 2020 - 7:25 PM (AEST) - Teams announced

[Woody Woodman]

Who outside of first round draft picks made it from those early days in the Hardwick rebuild? Grimes and Astbury are the only blokes that you could possibly argue Richmond developed using that method from Hardwick's first 4 drafts at Richmond.




I'm just not sure there is any evidence to suggest that it's beneficial to develop talent that way.

Who cares. Two flags in three years and finals every year from 2013 bar 2016. Something worked, probably a combination of many things, and it's up to the other seventeen clubs to work out their own strategies.

 

[Woody Woodman]

I can't go along with a new coach equalling a rebuild as such. A new game plan isn't rebuilding a list. Look at Malthouse. He came in, forgot all about how our list was situated and set about implementing a Collingwood game plan and he didn't have the cattle for it. We only won games under Malthouse when we were allowed to play our previous natural running game. He destroyed players but never set about rebuilding an aging list.

We have rebuilt in earnest for 5 drafts now. It would have been 4 had the Papley trade gone through but we went youth in the draft again.

Bolton was fast tracking the younger blokes and we barely won a game while doing it. There has to be a balance.

On Thursday, we played 8 players aged 19-22, 8 aged 24-27 and 6 28-30+. It's a pretty decent balance. Kreuzer has gone down again and may be just about done. Pittonet will add to the middle group or TDK will add to the younger group. Charlie Curnow and Harry McKay will add to the younger group and will be walk up starts when fit.

Murphy, Simpson and Ed Curnow were not our leading players on Thursday so that bodes well for the future. They are there for experience balance and Betts will be there as our only genuine small forward if fit. Could well be that Liam Jones is the oldest player in our best 22 next year at 30.

If you look at our younger group:

Weitering has played 77 games out of a possible 89
Petrevski-Seton 65 out of a possible 67
Silvagni 61 out of a possible 89
Fisher 56 out of a possible 67
Dow 40 out of a possible 45 and we can't exactly say they were all deserved
Walsh has played every game

Our main areas are key position forwards and ruck and they take more time and cop more injuries. 2 are injured and there is no doubt TDK is ready to play and learn on the job. If we could play Pittonet and TDK in the same side, it would be good. Can we play them both with Levi also in there? Not sure.

Maybe Gov or McKay at FF, Levi at CHF, TDK in a forward pocket relieving Pittonet in the ruck. Certainly Kreuzer can't play forward so we're not losing versatility by replacing him with Pittonet and TDK is a better ruck than Levi.

Of those not getting a go at the moment, O'Brien is a ready made Newnes replacement. I expect the dynamic to change as the season progresses, and hope Teague is not going to select older players out of such sense of loyalty.

Don't forget all of those other players that Carlton developed for other AFL clubs in recent years.

 

[Bazzar]

Don't forget all of those other players that Carlton developed for other AFL clubs in recent years.

Premiership ruckman Grigg for the brilliant Andy Collins was a masterstroke by Carlton.

 

[_RT_]

I can't go along with a new coach equalling a rebuild as such. A new game plan isn't rebuilding a list. Look at Malthouse. He came in, forgot all about how our list was situated and set about implementing a Collingwood game plan and he didn't have the cattle for it. We only won games under Malthouse when we were allowed to play our previous natural running game. He destroyed players but never set about rebuilding an aging list.

We have rebuilt in earnest for 5 drafts now. It would have been 4 had the Papley trade gone through but we went youth in the draft again.

Bolton was fast tracking the younger blokes and we barely won a game while doing it. There has to be a balance.

On Thursday, we played 8 players aged 19-22, 8 aged 24-27 and 6 28-30+. It's a pretty decent balance. Kreuzer has gone down again and may be just about done. Pittonet will add to the middle group or TDK will add to the younger group. Charlie Curnow and Harry McKay will add to the younger group and will be walk up starts when fit.

Murphy, Simpson and Ed Curnow were not our leading players on Thursday so that bodes well for the future. They are there for experience balance and Betts will be there as our only genuine small forward if fit. Could well be that Liam Jones is the oldest player in our best 22 next year at 30.

If you look at our younger group:

Weitering has played 77 games out of a possible 89
Petrevski-Seton 65 out of a possible 67
Silvagni 61 out of a possible 89
Fisher 56 out of a possible 67
Dow 40 out of a possible 45 and we can't exactly say they were all deserved
Walsh has played every game

Our main areas are key position forwards and ruck and they take more time and cop more injuries. 2 are injured and there is no doubt TDK is ready to play and learn on the job. If we could play Pittonet and TDK in the same side, it would be good. Can we play them both with Levi also in there? Not sure.

Maybe Gov or McKay at FF, Levi at CHF, TDK in a forward pocket relieving Pittonet in the ruck. Certainly Kreuzer can't play forward so we're not losing versatility by replacing him with Pittonet and TDK is a better ruck than Levi.

Of those not getting a go at the moment, O'Brien is a ready made Newnes replacement. I expect the dynamic to change as the season progresses, and hope Teague is not going to select older players out of such sense of loyalty.

Thanks for the considered response and appreciate a bit more of an insight from a rusted Blues fan who has a better understanding of the list.

 

[Tiger Soze]

Premiership ruckman Grigg for the brilliant Andy Collins was a masterstroke by Carlton.

Well and truly got us back with Yarran, pricks

 

[Bazzar]

Well and truly got us back with Yarran, pricks

That was a disgrace as they traded him fully knowing his drug and mental health issues.

 

[Dusty0004]

Well and truly got us back with Yarran, pricks

Was on the list in 2017

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Premiership ruckman Grigg for the brilliant Andy Collins was a masterstroke by Carlton.

We had no choice. Grigg was out of contract and wanted out.

 

[Bazzar]

We had no choice. Grigg was out of contract and wanted out.

He had outstanding foresight.

 

[Skull Face]

Premiership ruckman Grigg for the brilliant Andy Collins was a masterstroke by Carlton.

Yarran and Hampson or selective memory?

 

[Skull Face]

That was a disgrace as they traded him fully knowing his drug and mental health issues.

That was a disgrace that you poached a guy at a weak point in his life with the lure of money and then just waved him goodbye.

 

[Bazzar]

That was a disgrace that you poached a guy at a weak point in his life with the lure of money and then just waved him goodbye.

Poached him at a weak point? The club had no idea as Carlton failed to disclose any health issues.
Carlton were the disgrace. End of subject.,

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

St Kilda finished 6th in 2011. Carlton 5th.

In 2013 Carlton finished 6th (but 9th on the ladder). Brisbane finished 12th, but Carlton got the leg up on both teams that year by taking Cripps. Brisbane and Carlton especially are definitely comparable.
Until I see otherwise, I'm not too optimistic on Carlton's immediate future.

I'm hoping this virus stays out of the AFL system until after round 3 so I can watch this comment age gracefully

 

[Ambrosia]

It wasn't just hack kids that we played though. We played the younger ones who we also believed had long term futures. Some of them made the grade and others were spat out the other side quite quickly, which allowed us to keep on turning over the list and bringing in the next wave. It also meant that we suffered some painful losses that we might not have had we been playing a few more experienced blokes.

IMO Carlton seems to be focused more on keeping results respectable by relying on the older blokes to carry the load rather than putting the heat on the kids coming through to shoulder the load. I was listening the other night and one comment that pricked my ears was a commentator saying that people at Carlton believe that Kreuzer could play another 5 years, then you look at who was the main players in the side and it was still the likes of Murphy Simpson Kruezer Casboult Jones E.Curnow that were being asked to shoulder the load.

I understand a few blokes are coming back from injuries at the moment, but if I was a Carlton fans I'd much prefer to see a bunch of younger kids getting a run in place of some older long term servants who have given their all, but their best is probably behind them.

I just don’t think there’s any evidence supporting that playing kids who aren’t ready is the best way to improve.

Who cares. Two flags in three years and finals every year from 2013 bar 2016. Something worked, probably a combination of many things, and it's up to the other seventeen clubs to work out their own strategies.

Not trying to be critical of Richmond at all. Just pointing out that playing kids who aren’t ready isn’t a formula for developing players

 

[Skull Face]

Poached him at a weak point? The club had no idea as Carlton failed to disclose any health issues.
Carlton were the disgrace. End of subject.,

He had support at Carlton and was doing fine, you guys failed with your medical and then shunned him out the door when you should have supported him.

You guys are the reason his life descended off the deep end, you killed not only his career but destroyed his life as well, end of discussion.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

He had support at Carlton and was doing fine, you guys failed with your medical and then shunned him out the door when you should have supported him.

You guys are the reason his life descended off the deep end, you killed not only his career but destroyed his life as well, end of discussion.

Garbage, there is only one person responsible for the tragedy that has become Chris Yarran.

 

[Dusty0004]

Yarran and Hampson or selective memory?

Both were on our list in 2017

 

[_RT_]

I just don’t think there’s any evidence supporting that playing kids who aren’t ready is the best way to improve.


Not trying to be critical of Richmond at all. Just pointing out that playing kids who aren’t ready isn’t a formula for developing players

I never said to play guys that aren't ready. What I was getting at is that if given the option Teague should be looking at playing the younger kids with potential to be long time players over the older blokes, to fast track them. The unfortunate injury to Kreuzer now means that a younger ruck option is going to have a chance, unless they go with Casboult instead, which would be a mistake IMO.

 

[Robertio]

Poached him at a weak point? The club had no idea as Carlton failed to disclose any health issues.
Carlton were the disgrace. End of subject.,

You really believe that Richmond didn't know anything? There's a bridge up in Sydney for sale.

 

[Skull Face]

Both were on our list in 2017

Could have cost you a 3 peat, we will never know

 

[Bazzar]

You really believe that Richmond didn't know anything? There's a bridge up in Sydney for sale.

Bridge in Sydney for sale? That's like Carlton supporters believing this current rebuild is the big one.

 

[Robertio]

Bridge in Sydney for sale? That's like Carlton supporters believing this current rebuild is the big one.

I wasn't talking about the rebuild.

 

[Royce Hafey]

I never said to play guys that aren't ready. What I was getting at is that if given the option Teague should be looking at playing the younger kids with potential to be long time players over the older blokes, to fast track them. The unfortunate injury to Kreuzer now means that a younger ruck option is going to have a chance, unless they go with Casboult instead, which would be a mistake IMO.

To be honest I don't think that's necessarily the problem. The biggest thing recently to change at Richmond has been a development rather than a recruitment thing. Since we've had our own VFL side we've developed it into a clone of our main group - same playing style and everything and it's paid off with to GF appearances and a flag. It's meant that we can develop our kids in he 2s in a way we couldn't when aligned with Coburg. I don't follow VFL closely enough to know how the Carlton VFL squad is going but, if it's not a good place for their kids to gain experience, then the lack of game time in the seniors would become a big problem.

 

[Sinjin Smith]

No, they'll be career North premiership players.

We're talking about Dow btw.

Bit of tongue in cheek there mate. For me Dow needs to show why we picked him at 3. He has shown glimpses such as below:

Goal of the Week | Round 19

Paddy Dow takes out Goal of the Week after this memorable goal on the run.

www.carltonfc.com.au

However I want to see more

 

[jc12]

You talking about the 2 junk.time goals after we missed.shots to bring it back to single figures? pretty obvious those were scored because Carlton gave up on winning and stopped running as hard.

Hahahah keep trying to make yourself feel better mate, we had the game in the bag and the majority of people knew it