Game Day Richmond v GWS grand final thread 2019

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shimaburnsgrieg

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We beat the Dogs in 2016, the WC last year and the Tigers this year.

3 of the last 4 years we beat the premiers and we haven't played finals for 3 years.

Frustrating.
Ferbs - GWS beat Richmond be 8 goals early in 2019 - our result with Richmond this year has about as much relevance as that result.

We are miles off the last 2 GF winners - West Coast and Richmond (and 2-3 other sides as well) - if we even try to rationalise that we are close then we are in huge trouble.

It's fine to think positively and be half glass full - its not fine to be irrelevant and out of touch with reality.
 
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shimaburnsgrieg

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Fitness, discipline and aggression. Tigers are a good team with some great players but it is their fitness, discipline and aggression that separates them from the rest of us. GWS were simply outworked and outhustled.
So BT - very good analysis as always - how do you think our senior players line up on those criteria.

In particular I am thinking of our first choice midfield - Cunners, JZ and Higgo?

Do you think they are prepared to do what is required defensively - to play for the team orientated goals - as their Richmond's equivalents do?
 

sbdan

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AFLhas lost it with this sloooooooow after show. Bands should be on, the party should have started.

I actually feel for the players. THey want to relax and get on on it, but they are dragging them through THREE HOURS of crap.
 

rippersnipper

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So BT - very good analysis as always - how do you think our senior players line up on those criteria.

In particular I am thinking of our first choice midfield - Cunners, JZ and Higgo?

Do you think they are prepared to do what is required defensively - to play for the team orientated goals - as their Richmond's equivalents do?
Cunners, higgo, and jz would be excellent if they were combined into one bloke. Speed, agility, aggression, skill, grunt. Cunners and jz lack speed and skill, higgo the grunt. You can cop one in there at any time, but probably not two and definitely not all three. It's definitely an issue which will hopefully be fixed with Thomas, LDU and Ahern coming along over the next few seasons. We need a real star in there of the Fyfe, martin, Cripps, Dangerfield, Yeo mould.
 

Masked Avenger

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Fitness, discipline and aggression. Tigers are a good team with some great players but it is their fitness, discipline and aggression that separates them from the rest of us. GWS were simply outworked and outhustled.
Certainly more disciplined and probably had a fitness edge with the extra bye. I thought Giants were okay on the aggro. The two things that stood out for me were leg speed and precision kicking. Richmond are lightning quick. We're not. We should be aching for fast players.
 

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Ardent Roo

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Ferbs - GWS beat Richmond be 8 goals early in 2019 - our result with Richmond this year has about as much relevance as that result.

We are miles off the last 2 GF winners - West Coast and Richmond (and 2-3 the resides - if we even try to rationalise that we are close then we are in huge trouble.

It's fine to think positively and be half glass full - its not fine to be irrelevant and out of touch with reality.
Completely agree. We are miles off it.
 

Horace

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Horrible game of football. I wasn't to concerned about who won but an actual contest would have been nice. Pity the Pies never got up last week. Pretty sure they would have done a bit better than the Giants.
 

Tas

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People still think we aren’t far off that Tigers side?

Their leg speed would of put us to 100+ today.
This is a bit reactionary, GWS played their grand final last week, they were pathetic today. Sides look quick when you don't put them under immense pressure. Port is a much quicker side than us all over the park, did you get that impression from when we played them Round 22? They looked a lot quicker than us in round 6.

Richmond won 6 of their first 7 games before losing to us and triggered a bit of a losing streak following a bad run with injuries but we put the heat on Richmond. We had 72 tackles vs 55, only allowed them to take 76 marks so didn't allow them to switch and run, they looked slow against us and it was pretty much only a Herculean effort from Martin that kept them in the game before he faded out of the game.

GWS got smashed in the hitouts, laid 56 tackles vs 53 and both teams were allowed to accumulate 100+ marks with Richmond 113 vs 107, this is in the realms of pretty shit defensive effort by both sides after quarter time. Richmond had no incentive to change it up, everything was going their way after quarter time, GWS just bent over and grabbed their ankles.

Richmond is a much better balanced side in terms of inside vs outside than us, but they had a number of issues when they faced us, Riewoldt and Rance were out injured and Cotchin was coming in after a 8 week layoff due to injuries. They had 9 players with less than 50 games, 2 50-99, 6 100-149 and 5 150+, they fielded a side with 98.5 games of experienced compared to our 111.4 games and Cotchin wasn't 100%.

The difference between the sides were -Stack, McIntosh, Higgins, Balta, Butler and Garthwaite and +Riewoldt, Pickett, Lambert, Short, Nankervis and Rioli which turned the side into 4 players less than 50 games, 6x 50-99, 2x 100-149 and 10x 150+ with an average of 125.6 games. They fielded a better, more experienced side and it had better balance but players that are unavailable are because of injuries or form and you need some depth in your squad to have a shot or pray for an injury free run.

I don't think it is speed, it is consistent work-rate running both ways. We have shown we can play to the required standard, we haven't shown that we can do it consistently.
 

arden station

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Certainly more disciplined and probably had a fitness edge with the extra bye. I thought Giants were okay on the aggro. The two things that stood out for me were leg speed and precision kicking. Richmond are lightning quick. We're not. We should be aching for fast players.
Richmond have far more short, lower centre of gravity, agile and quick over 5, 10 and 20 metre players than we do.

Today for instance:

Houli - 179cm
Short - 178 cm
Baker - 173 cm

Bolton - 175 cm
Rioli - 179 cm
Castagna - 181 cm

Prestia - 175 cm
Lambert - 178 cm
Edwards - 182 cm
Ellis - 181 cm

We had the following 182cm and below on our entire list this year:

Williams - 181 cm

Hrovat - 175 cm
Wilkinson - 181cm
Turner - 180 cm

Anderson - 179cm
Simpkin - 182cm

You can add in Higgins at 184cm and Ahern at 183cm.

Compared to Richmond, the Bulldogs' and even West Coast's recent premiership sides, we have a stack more 186cm + mids, forwards and back on our list. Way too many and nowhere near enough low centre of gravity, agile quick players.

This has been a big recruiting mistake over a number of years. The few shorter guys we have recruited in recent years have been from low and speculative picks and haven't worked out. You'd think having Boomer at the club for so long would make it clear that you need to get high quality shorter players into your club.
 
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Marstermind

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Richmond were fantastic - loved that they didn't even allow them some junk time goals. They are great to watch when they play like that.

Having said that, that performance from GWS was disgraceful. Completely shat the bed. Has one shot, fired it early, had no impact and produced nothing from there on. Embarrassingly bad. Rightly the attention goes on the winners, but when the dust settles hopefully the Giants get called out for how pathetic that was. A complete fizzer of a day.
 

gokangas

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All this crap around GF entertainment - how about next year we have five songs celebrating 50 years of aussie hits. One great song from the 60s, 70s, 80. 90s, 00s.

60's - Russell Morris - The Real Thing
70's - Eagle Rock - Ross Wilson
80's - Live It Up - Mental as Anything
90's - help please - was there one?
00's - help please - Kylie?

Have five stars, five huge sing along songs - would have the place rocking. Maybe they could get Kylie (can't believe I'm suggesting that) to be the big one. I like Paul Kelly but he added nothing this year - need big songs to get an arena going. Never heard of the others.
 

Marstermind

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All this crap around GF entertainment - how about next year we have five songs celebrating 50 years of aussie hits. One great song from the 60s, 70s, 80. 90s, 00s.

60's - Russell Morris - The Real Thing
70's - Eagle Rock - Ross Wilson
80's - Live It Up - Mental as Anything
90's - help please - was there one?
00's - help please - Kylie?

Have five stars, five huge sing along songs - would have the place rocking. Maybe they could get Kylie (can't believe I'm suggesting that) to be the big one. I like Paul Kelly but he added nothing this year - need big songs to get an arena going. Never heard of the others.
How bout we all show up and watch the footy at 2.30? I get it's a big occasion but the whole focus on the entertainment isn't needed. At the ground you can't see much and all you hear is reverb.
 

gokangas

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How bout we all show up and watch the footy at 2.30? I get it's a big occasion but the whole focus on the entertainment isn't needed. At the ground you can't see much and all you hear is reverb.
True - but its gonna happen whether we want it or not. I'd be happy to have the VFL GF as the prematch. Mind you I never go unless we are in it. For 20 years I worked on the prematch outside and could have gone in and watched the game. Never took the opportunity once unless North was playing. When the gig finished I went home to watch with family and friends.
 

Friday Night Lights

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All this crap around GF entertainment - how about next year we have five songs celebrating 50 years of aussie hits. One great song from the 60s, 70s, 80. 90s, 00s.

60's - Russell Morris - The Real Thing
70's - Eagle Rock - Ross Wilson
80's - Live It Up - Mental as Anything
90's - NMFC song - Tim Rogers
00's - Drive - Shannon Noll

Have five stars, five huge sing along songs - would have the place rocking. Maybe they could get Kylie (can't believe I'm suggesting that) to be the big one. I like Paul Kelly but he added nothing this year - need big songs to get an arena going. Never heard of the others.
 

Moti

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This is a bit reactionary, GWS played their grand final last week, they were pathetic today. Sides look quick when you don't put them under immense pressure. Port is a much quicker side than us all over the park, did you get that impression from when we played them Round 22? They looked a lot quicker than us in round 6.

Richmond won 6 of their first 7 games before losing to us and triggered a bit of a losing streak following a bad run with injuries but we put the heat on Richmond. We had 72 tackles vs 55, only allowed them to take 76 marks so didn't allow them to switch and run, they looked slow against us and it was pretty much only a Herculean effort from Martin that kept them in the game before he faded out of the game.

GWS got smashed in the hitouts, laid 56 tackles vs 53 and both teams were allowed to accumulate 100+ marks with Richmond 113 vs 107, this is in the realms of pretty s**t defensive effort by both sides after quarter time. Richmond had no incentive to change it up, everything was going their way after quarter time, GWS just bent over and grabbed their ankles.

Richmond is a much better balanced side in terms of inside vs outside than us, but they had a number of issues when they faced us, Riewoldt and Rance were out injured and Cotchin was coming in after a 8 week layoff due to injuries. They had 9 players with less than 50 games, 2 50-99, 6 100-149 and 5 150+, they fielded a side with 98.5 games of experienced compared to our 111.4 games and Cotchin wasn't 100%.

The difference between the sides were -Stack, McIntosh, Higgins, Balta, Butler and Garthwaite and +Riewoldt, Pickett, Lambert, Short, Nankervis and Rioli which turned the side into 4 players less than 50 games, 6x 50-99, 2x 100-149 and 10x 150+ with an average of 125.6 games. They fielded a better, more experienced side and it had better balance but players that are unavailable are because of injuries or form and you need some depth in your squad to have a shot or pray for an injury free run.

I don't think it is speed, it is consistent work-rate running both ways. We have shown we can play to the required standard, we haven't shown that we can do it consistently.
Speed is not the only reason but with us it is a big issue. We have marking players, contested players but we don’t really have players who can spread at pace. And yes that means getting up and down the ground consistently as you say but Dumont is not really considered a strong player because he does do that. He lacks the speed to make the defensive and offensive running hurt and that is what speed brings.


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