Richo and Carey

[CJH]

What kind of a forward line would this make having these two up there? And good to see Carey tell it straight to Richmond as to his thoughts on Richo!

I want to stay: Richo
9:46:34 AM Tue 6 August, 2002
Howard Kotton
afl.com.au


Star Richmond forward Matthew Richardson says he wants to finish his career with the Tigers and is not seeking a trade at the end of the season.

“My relationship’s fine with the club,” Richardson said on Sport 927 on Monday night. “There’s been a lot of speculation and rubbish that floats around, but, no, I couldn’t be happier down there.”

Richardson said he has always looked up to former Kangaroos captain Wayne Carey and would like to play with him at Punt Road.

“I’d enjoy playing with him,” Richardson said. “He’d be good for Brad (Ottens) as well.”


In an interview on Fox Footy on Monday night Carey said he would not consider playing with the Tigers if they traded Richardson.

 

[WhiteLineFever]

On Sunday, I was looking at our forward line and how they lined up. Richo, Stafford and Ottens were all hovering around in the 50 metre arc with Ray Hall performing most of the ruck work.

To me the forward line already looks very tall. I would rather see us bolster our midfield than go for another mature tall like Carey, who I think has passed his prime. So my vote is definitely against Carey joining the Tiges. Let him go elsewhere and spoil someone else's party.

 

[mellowyellow]

originally posted by WhiteLineFever

On Sunday, I was looking at our forward line and how they lined up. Richo, Stafford and Ottens were all hovering around in the 50 metre arc with Ray Hall performing most of the ruck work.

To me the forward line already looks very tall. I would rather see us bolster our midfield than go for another mature tall like Carey, who I think has passed his prime. So my vote is definitely against Carey joining the Tiges. Let him go elsewhere and spoil someone else's party.

Richo Carey and Ottens would also be an imposing forward line WLF, freeing up Staff and Hall to rotate in the ruck and also filling the holes in our backline. Where Carey would actually play up foward is an interesting proposition though, out of the square? C H F? hmm. The question is probably academic though as our fundamental problems are in our midfield and probably defence and carey in the long run wont address these problems.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

I reckon Otto would make a great Centre Half Back. A great mark, beautiful kick, strong, quick, and could take the backline ruck duels to free up Stafford, Hall, or whoever is in the ruck to drift forward and take marks.

Otto could comfortably match up on the likes of Tredrea, Hird, Brown, Grant or Whitnall, and also provide us with the necessary balance and run off half back ... much like Jakovich has done for the Eagles for a decade.

It would also take a lot of pressure off Holland, Gas and our other key backmen, and also be less demanding on our ruckman to get back to the backline.

Throw Carey into Centre Half Forward, and that's a bloody strong spine ....

 

[Rodan#18.]

Some jornalist coughed this one up.

"Matthew Richardson is a proven match-winner. That is a blunt fact that was proven again last Sunday when the much-maligned big man kicked five goals, three behinds and took 11 marks to almost single-handedly destroy Melbourne at the MCG.

But the question is — how valuable is ‘Richo’ to Richmond and should he stay a Tiger and finish his career at Punt Rd or should he move on, allowing the Tigers to start a new ‘post-Richo’ era?

Tiger supporters are divided on whether the club should keep the talented key forward and they know better than any what a gap there is between his best and worst performances.

But with Wayne Carey also possibly on the way to Tigerland (his close relationship with former teammates, chief executive Mark Brayshaw and assistant coach Darren Crocker, could help sway his decision), Tiger fans would already be licking their lips with anticipation of an attack consisting of Richardson, Carey and Brad Ottens.


Carey has said he will only play for the Tigers if Richo remains, but it remains to be seen whether that will convince the Richmond hierarchy, who appear to have lost some of their patience with the enigmatic big man over the past couple of years.
Below we identify the pros and cons of Richo staying in the yellow and black colours.

WHY HE SHOULD STAY
• His father was a Tiger player, he’s a Tiger and his family are Tigers. The Richardson family is synonymous with Richmond and Matthew has been at the club since 1993. He’s loyal and he’s barracked for the club since he was a kid — no other club has, or will ever have, the same emotional attachment to Richardson.
• Just the thought of Carey, Ottens and Richo playing in the one team should make any Tiger fan hope he stays. Richo could also learn a lot off the ‘King’. Carey has always been the master of on-field intimidation and Richo could learn a lot off him about how to put genuine fear into the opposition. No matter what, Richo and Ottens would both walk taller with Carey alongside them.
• The Tigers are a better team with Richo firing — we saw that in 2001 and we saw it again against Melbourne last weekend. The big fellow was the leading mark taker in the competition in 2001, averaging eight grabs per game, and he kicked 59 goals. A fit and firing Richo is still an awesome sight and as Cameron Bruce and Melbourne found out, he’s still very hard to match-up on.
• He’s a two-time All-Australian and has won the club’s goalkicking six times — he’s still the Tigers’ most potent attacking force and their best avenue to goal.

WHY HE SHOULD GO
• The body language that has haunted the Tigers for so long would be gone. Richo’s spoilt child antics have been a thorn in the side of the Tigers for a long time and are a terrible example for the younger players — imagine what David Rodan must have felt like early in the year when Richo blasted the first-year player in front of the entire football world?
• Richardson and the Tigers could do with fresh beginnings. Since 1993 the closest the Tigers have got to premiership success are preliminary final losses in 1995 and last season — the former being when Richo was out of the side with a knee injury. In 2001 Richo and Ottens both had stellar seasons – the question is, will the Tigers ever take the next step with Richo in the team?
• He’s starting to get regular soft-tissue injuries which is a problem considering he relies so heavily on his athleticism and running skills to get the better of opponents.
• The Tigers rely too heavily on Richardson. Without him they may be forced to find fresh and new avenues to attack which, in the long-term, is likely to be a good thing. "

 

[Rodan#18.]

Originally posted by 'the journo'

• He’s starting to get regular soft-tissue injuries which is a problem considering he relies so heavily on his athleticism and running skills to get the better of opponents.
[/B]

you tell me : what's stupid about that statement . Dont they all ????

 

[Rodan#18.]

three in a row...

I think Carey would be great for the club...byut only if the price is right. I'm not prepared to cough up the first pick. We need another midfielder. The king will cost $ 400 K. We can't afford him without offloading req'd talent.....who will go ? It won't be Richo .....

Bowden ?
Campbell ?

You get the idea....

if we can negotiate a bundle of players for him...then OK. But he's had two shoulder recos, a year off, wrong side of 30 , and it's not exactly like it's our forward zone that is the problem....if we get him and he doesn't perform...Punt Rd will be set alight in riots that will make the Rodney King affair look llike a playground scuffle.

 

[diggler]

What is the point of getting Carey, if we still have the same no hopers in the midfield. Duncan, King & Rodgers. We could have Lockett, Ablett & Coleman there and still get flogged, with the same old rabble in the side.

 

[Redford]

Yeah, I agree with Diggler. Our mid-fielders and on-ballers are just terrible in comparison with most other teams.

As much as I like him as a bloke, and love his courage, Duncan's skill level is just deplorable. With his constant offloading to nearby team mates to avoid having to kick the ball, the whole forward is being thrown out of rhythm. I still have trouble reconciling how a player with such appalling skills is playing senior AFL football until I remember it is Richmond that is playing him. Has Essendon, Brisbane, Adelaide or the Kangaroos carried a player of such minimal skill in any of their premiership sides ? I don't think so.

Tough decisions have to be made. I don't want to hear any emotional crap about how he is 'the heart and soul' etc. etc. We have to be smart, not emotional. Duncan's gotta go.

King's skills are mediocre at best ,and Rogers has never performed well under pressure, or in big games. Throw in the fact that our more skilful players in those positions i.e. Bowden and Squibendale are soft, and our capabilities in the mid-field/on-ball area are seriously deficient.

We need to recruit tough and skilful players to these positions and maybe a CHB as well that we can groom to replace Holland - another player Richmond completely overrates.

 

[CJH]

Originally posted by Redford


...

Throw in the fact that our more skilful players in those positions i.e. Bowden and Squibendale are soft, and our capabilities in the mid-field/on-ball area are seriously deficient.

Now you are touching on something to warm my heart! This has been a favourite hobby horse of mine for a while! Too many skinny, flashy outside running players and not enough grunts!

I did a study earlier on in the year, comparing our best 22 against that of Brisbane - measuring type and structure rather than the more subjective talent.

The results were hardly surprising!

I will dig them up and republish them!

 

[CJH]

Originally posted on 21/6/02

A little excercise I've just done to guage team balance. I taken the benchmark team (Brisbane) as named for tomorrow, added Voss and Lappin in at the expense of Charman and Copeland and then seen how they compare against out team as named for tommorrow (assuming that Poyas, Hyde and Newman miss).

From our named team, you can add in Holland (Key Defender), Ottens (Key Forward) and Hilton (Combo) at the expense of probably Coughlan, Pettifer and Sziller)

The key differences for me is that Brisbane have less defensive midfielders and also less outside running players. They have more big bodied grunts that are capable of winning the ball.

Is this really any surprise to anyone?


Key Defender Key Defender

Michael Gaspar
Leppitsch A. Kellaway

Small Defender Small Defender

Johnson Zantuck
Pike * Torney
White * Chaffey

Running Player Running Player

Ashcroft Cameron
Akermanis Tivendale
Lappin Bowden
Houlihan
Pettifer

Inside Player / Grunt Inside Player / Grunt

C. Scott Rogers
Hart Knights
B. Scott Coughlan
Bolton King
Shattock Rodan


Combo Player Combo Player

Black Campbell
Voss
Headland

Tagger Tagger

Sziller
D. Kellaway

Key Forward Key Forward

Brown Richardson
Lynch
Bradshaw

Small Forward Small Forward

McRae Krakouer
Power

Ruck Ruck

Keating Stafford
Hall

*Pretty frigging tall "small" defenders but they don't usually line up on the big key forwards.

 

[CJH]

And onother study looking at the changes needed on the list!

============================================

The purpose of this exercise is to illustrate to Patrick Bateman how there is hope for next year and that we won¡¦t be spending another 10 years in the badlands!

Using the Brisbane Lions model of a balanced list and applying it to our own, I can determine our shortcomings and surpluses.

I have broken this into three parts:
1. The entire 2002 senior playing list
2. A group of 30 who would most probably represent the senior pool for the season
3. Some development / Reserve players.

In the entire list, I have included every senior player and ranked them according to where I see them

For the playing group of 30, I have only moved the names forward that I see as being part of the plans for next year. Some of the remaining players can be viewed as development and have been moved to a supplementary list.

This will then highlight what gaps we need to fill!

The players I see as being delisted and/or traded are:

Scott Homewood
Craig Biddiscombe
Greg Tivendale
Andrew Mills
Matthew Rogers
Clinton King
Steven Sziller
Paul Hudson

For next year, we will need to recruit:

„h 3 Inside players capable of stepping straight up to senior level, whether they be current AFL players (eg. Guerra) or kids via the draft (e.g. Rodan, McGough, Doughty)
„h 2 development inside players.
„h 1 Key Forward capable of playing senior football
„h 1 development key defender (Lucas McGhie via Father/Son rule)
„h 1 development small forward

This is based upon my belief that the balance of the side is all wrong and that we don¡¦t have enough players able to win the ball in the middle.

Get the balance right - more players winning the ball - and we will have every chance on being successful. 3 more ball winners into this team changes the complexion entirely.

=================
The Brisbane Model
=================
Total Players 22 30 38

Key Defender 2 9.09% 3 4
Small Defender 3 13.64% 4 5
Running Player 3 13.64% 4 5
Inside Player 5 22.73% 7 9
Combination Player 3 13.64% 4 5
Key Forward 3 13.64% 4 5
Small Forward 2 9.09% 3 3
Ruck 1 4.55% 1 2



=================
Current 2002 Senior List
=================

Key Defender 5
1 Darren Gaspar
2 Ben Holland
3 Andrew Kellaway
4 Royce Vardy
5 Scott Homewood
Small Defender 5
1 Jason Torney
2 Mark Chaffey
3 Ty Zantuck
4 Chris Newman
5 Craig Biddiscombe
Running Player 5
1 Joel Bowden
2 Leon Cameron
3 Aaron Fiora
4 Kayne Pettifer
5 Greg Tivendale
6 Chris Hyde
7 Andrew Mills
8
Inside Player 9
1 Duncan Kellaway
2 Mark Coughlan
3 Matthew Knights
4 Craig Ednie
5 Matthew Rogers
6 Clinton King
7 Steven Sziller
8
9
Combination Player 5
1 Campbell
2 Rodan
3 Hilton
4 Dragicevic


Key Forward 5
1 Matthew Richardson
2 Brad Ottens
3
4
5
Small Forward 3
1 Andrew Krakouer
2 Adam Houlihan
3 Ezra Poyas
4 Martin McGrath
5 Paul Hudson
Ruck 2
1 Stafford
2 Hall

=================
2003 Core List
=================

Key Defender 3
1 Darren Gaspar
2 Ben Holland
3 Andrew Kellaway
4
5
Small Defender 4
1 Jason Torney
2 Mark Chaffey
3 Ty Zantuck
4 Chris Newman
5
Running Player 4
1 Joel Bowden
2 Leon Cameron
3 Aaron Fiora
4 Kayne Pettifer
5
6
7
8
Inside Player 7
1 Duncan Kellaway
2 Mark Coughlan
3 Matthew Knights
4 Craig Ednie
5 ?
6 ?
7 ?
8
9
Combination Player 4
1 Campbell
2 Rodan
3 Hilton
4 Dragicevic


Key Forward 4
1 Matthew Richardson
2 Brad Ottens
3 ?
4
5
Small Forward 3
1 Andrew Krakouer
2 Adam Houlihan
3 Ezra Poyas
4
5
Ruck 1
1 Stafford
2 Hall

=================
2003 Development List
=================
Key Defender
1 Royce Vardy
2 ?

Small Defender
1 ?

Running Player
1 Chris Hyde

Inside Player
1 ?
2 ?

Small Forward
1 Martin McGrath

 

[Redford]

Phew ! You have given some serious thought to this !

There is no doubt that we need some more skilful in and under (or grunty) ball winners. I know you can't find these sorts of players just like that, but we desperately need a few of the Voss, Riccuttio, Black, Stevens, Johnson types. No doubt about it.

Speaking of balance, on an individual level, I have long thought that a lot of our players are proficient in certain areas but are desperately deficient in others. I'll throw up some examples:

Bowden: good skills and can run, but distinct lack of physicality.
Tivendale: Ditto
Ottens: great skills and has the talent, but soft as butter (fast becoming another McKernan if he doesn't watch out !)
Kellaway D & A: courageous and hard at it, but appalling skills
King: goes in enough, but poor skills and decision making
Torney: Ditto
Richo: great mark, outstanding athlete but completely uncordinated off the boot....

and on it goes for most of our players.

I don't expect everyone can be a superstar, but geez we just don't seem to have many players on our list who are well grounded accross what I call the 4 cornerstones: Skill, Courage, Athleticism (includes speed and strength) and Football Intelligence.

I put it down to poor recruiting in the first place, and then the club overrating the abilities of them in the second.

 

[diggler]

Redford, I've been saying for two years to get rid of Dudcan Fellaway, but I always get abused because he is the heart and sole of our rabble club. I say give him a press conference soon and show his highlite real. That will take 10 seconds!

 

[CJH]

Originally posted by diggler
Redford, I've been saying for two years to get rid of Dudcan Fellaway, but I always get abused because he is the heart and sole of our rabble club. I say give him a press conference soon and show his highlite real. That will take 10 seconds!

Diggler,

Even you cannot deny that the sole reason that Duncan keeps getting a game is because he is one of the few hard players that we have. And until we add to Coughlan and Rodan as grunts in the middle, Duncan will keep on getting a game.

And to Redford's point about un-skilled players getting games in premiership teams, take a look at Joe Misiti. For all the Sheedy hype and for all his ability to get the ball (which he does well) he is a very ordinary kick. Not as bad as Dunc but ordinary nonetheless.

Come to think of it, take another look at the 1990 Collingwood premiership team - they had more scrubbers than you could poke a stick at! (and hello to you Tony Shaw!)

 

[tigerman]

Hard at it players

Yeah CJH.

That's why the loss to the magpies the other week was so disappointing. They were too tough for us. I can handle losing (sort of) when we are having a go, but I bleed when scumwood are too tough for us.
Oh for a Balme or a Mclean or Sheedy or Richardson (bull) or Dean or Guinane or Lee or Weightman etc etc etc.
We have got too many soft players in the team, and not enough players prepared to put real pressure on the player with the ball.
Coughlan, Zantuck and Newman look like they are made of the right stuff, we just need Bowden and Tivendale to take a leaf out of their book.


CARN THE TIGES!!!!

 

[diggler]

I agree CJH he is hard, however it really shows how bad a team we are if he still continues as a mid fielder. Quite frankly we will never move forward until he is gone, because his style of football is decades past and he is a liability that we can ill afford to carry. He would not get a game for any half descent side. I for one will celebrate loudly when he is offered a press conference.
I admire him greatly as a player who has fooled so many for such a long time. Namely Richmond people. If he was a youngster in the draft these days, he would have no hope. Unless a Tiger scout sees him.

 

[tigerman]

Good on Ya's

Good stuff Zantuck and Hall. Now that is LIKE THE TIGERS OF OLD.
Stafford is a bit like Mark Lee, he lets he's opponents know that he's out their.
Good on you Richo, get another bag full next week and we will win again.

CARN THE TIGES!!!!

 

[Redford]

Originally posted by CJH



And to Redford's point about un-skilled players getting games in premiership teams, take a look at Joe Misiti. For all the Sheedy hype and for all his ability to get the ball (which he does well) he is a very ordinary kick. Not as bad as Dunc but ordinary nonetheless.

Come to think of it, take another look at the 1990 Collingwood premiership team - they had more scrubbers than you could poke a stick at! (and hello to you Tony Shaw!)

I disagree strongly about Misiti's kicking ability (granted, he is soft.) You don't play through the mid-field at Essendon unless you can kick the football. That is a basic philosphy of theirs - a fact that I can confirm after having played under, and known Robert Shaw for a number of years. Full stop, Essendon rarely accept players who can not kick the ball (something Richmond just can't employ in their thinking.)

As for Collingwood's premiership 12 years ago, that was about the last time you could get away with a generally under-skilled (but red hot go) type of a team. They were very fortunate that year as well with both Hawthorn and Geelong going to sleep. And they beat a team that was ordinary to the point that Sheedy completely dis-mantled them afterwards anyway. The winning teams of the last 6-7 years have very few, if any, players of the Dudcan type.

Keeping possession is more important than ever. Whilst some of them have a go, Dudcan and his brother, King, Torney, Gaspar, Holland, Sziller and even Mad Cow, are all very mediocre kicks of the football. They get it, but then turn it over or they make mistakes.

Diggler is absolutely spot on. We need to weed out all these under-skilled players at Richmond and replace them better skilled players who have the toughness as well. We just don't have enough players with a combination of both.

The Freo win was encouraging, but let's face it - it was Freo. Everyone is rapping up the same old players that let us down in big games. Typically, Bowden and Tivendale carve up when the going is good.

Let's not get into a false sense of security. We need a BIG shake up of our list and some regulars (sacred cows) need to go.