Richo for Bubba?

[Waltzing Woof Biscuit]

Just a thought. In a previous thread, a couple of us mentioned that if we had to trade one of our guns, it would probably be Bubba Smith. I'd HATE to see him go - but just a scenario: If Matthew Richardson came onto the market at the end of the season, would we want him? Who would you trade for him? Would Smithy for Richo be a fair deal - for oursleves or Richmond?

What do you reckon?

 

[Captain Sensible]

NO WAY. Lets look at the two players.
Richo is talented no doubt, but he has a lot of limitations. He is a one position player, is injured a lot and doesn't play the game as if its a team game.
Smith is talented and dependable(150 games on the trot)

Would want a much better player for Smith.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Originally posted by Waltzing Woof Biscuit
Just a thought. In a previous thread, a couple of us mentioned that if we had to trade one of our guns, it would probably be Bubba Smith. I'd HATE to see him go - but just a scenario: If Matthew Richardson came onto the market at the end of the season, would we want him? Who would you trade for him? Would Smithy for Richo be a fair deal - for oursleves or Richmond?

What do you reckon?

AAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

NO WAY!!!!!!!!!

JOSE??????????

 

[wb 4ever]

Of course we should trade Bubba for Richo.

Could you imagine Darcy tapes it to West, who handballs to Eagleton, who drills it down Richos throat, who (after a hard preseason of goal kicking and nothing else) slots it right between the big sticks.

And another positive is we could get rid of Ellis as well.

 

[wb 4ever]

i had another idea we could get rid of JOSE
as well in this trade

SMITH, ELLIS, ROMERO for RICHO

Finally a trade that the Bulldogs get the better deal

 

[Waltzing Woof Biscuit]

Originally posted by wb 4ever
i had another idea we could get rid of JOSE
as well in this trade

SMITH, ELLIS, ROMERO for RICHO

Finally a trade that the Bulldogs get the better deal

And they could give Leon Cameron back to us too.

COME BACK LEON

 

[jim440]

In an instant!

6' 5" and takes more contested marks than anyone else going around. I'd put up with his goalkicking if he took 10 contested marks a game.

Grant could play CHB or the two of them could terrorise defenses together.

More realistically, Richmond would never let him go. I'd look at Bowen Lockwood from Port. Young, big, not getting much of a go -and he's a Victorian. They might be interested in Alvey or Dimattina.

 

[Westy Boy]

I think a couple of you guys may be undervaluing Richo. He would be perceived to be far, far more valuable in the 'meat market', despite performing poorly of late.

You could argue that Cameron would have been of 'about' the same value as Smith, and all we could squeeze out of that was a third round draft choice, so i don't like our chances. Also, Smith is nudging on 28, so that would also work against us working a trade.

Richo would walk straight into our forward line (remember LY, replacing Bartlett ! and would also release Grant to CHB as Jim440 pointed out), ditto Smith into their line up as an attacking midfielder, and would probably be close to their most penetrating kick. But despite that, IF, and I mean IF (to quote Robert Walls) Richo was to ramain injury free, we we would win out on that trade, big time, IMO.

For those of you saying no -- what should we do? Just leave the team as it is? Weren't you saying that this team will never bring a premiership? Well, here we are, a tall, quality full forward, one of the best marks in the league who has the ability to truly turn matches in our favour available, for a quality midfielder of which we have plenty-- why not?

With Murhpy, Giansiracusa, Eagleton, Mcmahon, Birss, Gilbee all coming along in leaps and bounds, our midfield looks the most promising of any team (arguably bar Essendon and Carlton) in the comp. We need to trade for players we need -- We need height and quality in our forward line.

Anyway, Smith's just signed a contract with us for life, so I don't think he'll be going anywhere.

 

[TigerTank]

From a Richmond supporter's perspective not a fair deal at all.

Richardson might be out of form at the moment, but he is still the most formidable and possibly the best player on Richmond's list. Given that Richmond and the Bulldogs are at a similar place on the ladder, nothing short of one of your three best players would be even remotely adequate in return - and the Bulldogs (sensibly) won't offer that.

Richardson is a high-risk, high-return type investment, something that a club like the Bulldogs would not punt on. A Carlton, West Coast or Adelaide, on the other hand, might.

Nevertheless, Richardson IS Richmond. He was offered twice as much at the start of his career to play with Collingwood and refused because, as he told his father, he wanted to play for Richmond.

I suspect that the Tigers will stand by their man. But we thank you for Leon Cameron anyway.

 

[sigscotty]

Will never happen, neither side would be willing to do it. you must remember Bubba is a Lifelong Bulldog supporter and has been at the club since U19s. And Richo as has already been stated IS Richmond. I do like the idea of Bowen Lockwood though, and i think guy like Cox could be a viable trade cos he is big and probably more highly rated by other clubs than he actually deserves. (Because of his size, which we know is an absolute waste)

 

[BUBBALOUIS]

Whoops, sorry i thought you guys were talking about me...lol, sorry ill go know. Although i reckon id be a good pick up!

 

[TigerTank]

Originally posted by BUBBALOUIS
Whoops, sorry i thought you guys were talking about me...lol, sorry ill go know. Although i reckon id be a good pick up!

Not for Richardson, but maybe for Todd Menegola.

 

[BUBBALOUIS]

Originally posted by TigerTank


Not for Richardson, but maybe for Todd Menegola.

lol@TT, when does pre season start...Menengola's gawn

 

[Captain Sensible]

Yeah alright I know that i said that about Bartlett Westy, but my point was they should play Bowden in the seniors. Bowden will be a 100 goal a year player in senior AFL in the next three years.

I just hope it is with us.

If we dont play him soon then he will do it elsewhere, mark my words.
I also see the point about trading for quality, but Bubba should be on the no-trade list. Sometimes a player brings more than just his football ability to a club. Rohan comes from a family and grew up in an area that is solidly pro Bulldog (I know I grew up around the corner from him) and would do anything to see the Doggies do well. He has the same love for the footy club that you or I do. Were just lucky that he is also such a damn fine player. Along with Brad Johnson he is the heart and soul of the club and can NEVER be traded.

Thats what I reckon anyway

 

[Westy Boy]

Bowden 100 goal+ forward in 3 years? C'mon LY, we need to be realistic here. He can't even manage half that in the ressies (which he isn't dominating against second rate defences, is missing easy kicks, and goes missing), how's he gonna get even close in the seniors?

So you would rate him in the same bracket as Lloyd (who looks like being the only forward of the current era who can reach the ton)? At Bowden's age, Lloyd was tearing them apart in the seniors. Not even Grant would kick 100 if left at FF for a season.... and Bowden will? Superstars can usually be spotted from a young age -- Carey, Grant, Voss, Hird, Buckley -- they were dominating games in their first couple of seasons -- Bowden isn't showing that kind of brilliance.

These 'special' forwards come once in a blue moon, LY -- labelling him as a 100+ a season goalkicker means he should be compared to the Dunstall's, Ablett's, and Lockett's of the past decade... but frankly, he doesn't compare. Look, from what I've seen, Patrick looks a good prospect, but until we see him do a lot of damage in the seniors, that's all he should be regarded as -- i would be rapt to be proven wrong.

As for the 'intagible' qualities in regards to Smith -- how much does a player's upbringing effect him while he's running for the ball, or kicking for goal? Kretiuk grew up in St Albans and would die for the team ..... if Essendon offered Hird, we shouldn't accept that trade solely because he's a passionate Western Bulldogs player who grew up in the area?

I agree that it is a 'special quality', that should be taken into consideration, but not to a point where we reject stars of other clubs, who will provide significant improvements to our team. You want a premiership LY, ...... it will be skill, class, height and speed which will get it, not the fact that a couple of players grew up in Kingsville or Hoppers.

 

[Westy Boy]

TT,

Firstly, totally agree with your comments. Even if Richo went on the market, we wouldn't be prepared to give up enough..... although I think any of Grant/Darcy/West would be a little too much for someone like Richo ...... but of course I don't want to be accused of overrating our players.

Secondly, I'm interested to see who you think is doing better out of Harrison and Cameron.

They were both traded for similar picks in successive drafts, so you could argue that it was pretty much a direct swap -- Personally, I'm not suprised to see Leon do so well, as he would add a lot of class to most clubs .... but on Harrison, I still remember your brilliant analysis on him, which looks to have been pretty much spot on.... but do you think he's improved his consistency and output a little, since crossing over?

What about the draft picks we both swapped in the two deals ..... Hahn V Krakeur (?). Hahn looks to be a solid long term player, how's Krakoer been going in the ressies since his debut a few weeks back? I know we probably need a couple more seasons to see how the two yougsters pan out, but would you consider the two deals (the cliqued) "win - win"?

After round 2 though, I doubt we'll ever do 'business' with you guys again.

Bubba,

LOL... we would never trade you for anybody mate!!

 

[Captain Sensible]

I can see where you are coming from with your "where you come from doesnt help you when you are running for the ball" discourse westy.
But at a footy club results are built on much more than that. Passsion plays a part also.
I am old enough to remember the great Richmond sides of the late sixties and early seventies. IMO they are the best sides I have ever seen and would have run rings around the later Hawthorn, Carlton and Essendon sides. This Richmond side had great players and really knew how to pull together and win tricky games of footy. They lost this ability when they traded a broken down old ruckman called 'Whale' Roberts to South Melbourne. That trade ripped the heart out of the club and the Tiges were never the same.
My point is that Smith is the player that carries the great love and traditions of our club in his heart.
Look at the English cricket team a collection of disparate individuals from around the world and when the pressure is applied because they are playing essentially for themselves they dissolve. They are not playing for the team. I'm not saying our blokes dont play for their teamates, but Rohan GENUINELY loves the club.

 

[TigerTank]

Originally posted by Westy Boy

Secondly, I'm interested to see who you think is doing better out of Harrison and Cameron.

First, thanks for the kind words. You shouldn't have! (but please don't let that stop you).

Richmond has got terrific value out of Cameron - more even than the Bulldogs could have. Good foot disposal appears to be a Bulldogs trait so while he is possibly missed there, you have other players who can cover.

But good disposal by foot is sadly lacking at Richmond for some reason. Not only does Cameron add quality to our disposal out of defence, I think he also has an on-field "coaching role" with regard to kicking.

Apart from that he is also a good defensive player with a cool head (also not a Richmond strong suit).

I am not surprised that Harrison has been good at the Bulldogs. He played quite a few good, high possession games at Richmond, and was only traded for salary cap reasons (we tried to off-load others first as you might recall).

Just as kicking is a weakness at Tigerland, contested marking is a weakness at the Bulldogs. Harrison is a very good mark for his size. He is not missed from Richmond because that would be Richmond's strength (usually).

As far as the kids go, Hahn has runs on the board and is clearly going to be around for some time. Krakeour is harder to call - he is probably more 'brilliant' than Hahn but needs a lot longer to develop. Time will tell if it happens.

At the moment it appears a win-win scenario for the two clubs.

 

[K9-54]

Originally posted by Waltzing Woof Biscuit
Who would you trade for him? Would Smithy for Richo be a fair deal - for oursleves or Richmond?

I'd do the deal. But I don't think Richmond would. I'd hate to see Bubba go too, but trading's a fact of life. When it comes to the top end of the list (either in ability or passion for the club), you would only ever do the trade if you believed it would be a winning deal. That's why I would and Richmond wouldn't. Bubba's great but Richo is a level or two above in potential value. The 5 players on the list I would rate higher than Bubba I wouldn't trade for Richo - we wouldn't be in a clearly winning position.

 

[sigscotty]

just a note about the Cameron trade. The Bulldogs got 2 draft picks, the other one was used for Ryan Hargrave.