Ricky Ponting

[RoyalBlue]

I love Hogg, and I love his grin... he is one of the few guys that I see on the cricket that, when you look in their eyes, you know they genuinely appreciate being on the field and respect the baggy green.

When I read that the Indians were countering the racism claims with claims that Hogg called one of their players a bastard, I almost vomited.

I mean, really?

Different cultures take different things more seriously.

 

[RoyalBlue]

Hogg is pants.

I know no one was going to come in and take over from Warne - anyone aside from a fit McGill, speaking of assholes - but Hogg is pants. Zero penetration in the test arena.

Let's face it, Warne was a comet like bright light in a sphere of Australian test cricket that has been rubbish since the bloke on the right gave it away:

Champion.


...what a catch!

 

[RoyalBlue]

More Peter Taylor gold:

Peter Taylor

Then: The 'wrong' Taylor spins Australia to victory on his debut, 1987
Now: Farmer in New South Wales

It was obvious that Australia would select two spinners for the final match of the series at Sydney, where the wicket usually turns, but it was a complete surprise when I was called up. My brother-in-law, who is a farmer and wakes early, heard the news on the radio and rang to tell me. I told him that he must be mistaken, that he had obviously heard the name of [future Australia captain] Mark Taylor, who was then making a lot of runs at state level. I still don't know whether the myth that they meant Mark but picked me by mistake is true.

In the early part of my career I had concentrated on my studies and I was 30 by the time I was called up. I thought my time had passed. It was not the most auspicious of occasions to make a Test debut: we were two-nil down in the series; Sydney was a dead rubber; our morale was at a low ebb. On the other hand, expectations were also low, which took some of the pressure off.

Allan Border, with whom I played at school level, was our captain. He won the toss and elected to bat. I came in at number nine. I was nervous as hell but Gladstone Small sent down a fairly gentle over so at least I avoided a duck [Taylor scored 11]. When England batted, Border brought me on early because he could see that it was a spinner's wicket. Because I was pretty much unknown, none of the Poms had any intelligence on me, which worked in my favour. I remember Ian Botham coming out to bat. He was in his pomp then and winding himself up. He smacked me for what must have been the biggest six I'd ever seen. It landed on the roof of the pavilion. But, a few overs later, I got him and ended up with six wickets in the innings.

Taking six on your debut is a dream, but I was more pleased with the way I batted in our second innings. It was a crucial time as Steve Waugh and I tried to set England a big enough target for our bowlers to defend. Steve was starting his Test career and what impressed me was his confidence at the wicket. We were 145 for seven but he didn't seem fazed at all. Between us, we put on 98, which proved to be critical.

The other person who impressed me in that match was England captain Mike Gatting. England had won the series and he would have been within his rights to order his men to shut up shop and hold out for the draw, rather than go for the win. He didn't. He told his team to try to score the runs. In fact, his knock of 96 in the second innings was one of the best in the game. I took two wickets in the second innings, including Botham second ball. In the end, it was horribly tight and it looked as if John Emburey would hold out for the Poms, but [leg spinner] Peter Sleep got him with a grubber, with eight balls to spare.

What I remember afterwards was how many people there seemed to be in the dressing room and feeling utterly exhausted. Before that Test, I had played only one five-day match and nothing as emotionally draining. That match was the turning point for Australia. It was our first Test win in more than a year, encompassing 15 matches. It gave the selectors confidence that they had the right pool of players to persevere with. It sealed the bond between Bob Simpson, the coach, and Border. Bob was a staunch advocate of hard training and, in Allan, he found someone who took that work ethic out on to the field of play. Two years later, we recaptured the Ashes and have kept them ever since.

I played a few more Tests but never another Ashes match. Although I was lucky enough to play in the 1992 World Cup and was a national selector in the late Nineties, it remains one of my great regrets that I never played in a series in England.

 

[The Filth Wizard]

If you hate him, you hate me.

That means TFW loves me.

This, my friend, is fact

No, the way I've viewed his grin is that of a smart arse like 'haha I play for Australia and you don't haha look at me haha I'm so funny haha plus more haha'.

The whole bastard thing though, what a load of BS.

I understand that... but there is something in his eyes that, to me, argues that... I think he really digs what he does.

Different cultures take different things more seriously.

That is true, but lets be serious on this... if the Indians find the term bastard so offensive, it is possible that Hogg wouldn't know that. Calling Symonds a monkey however is a pre-established racist term.

It really is a load of BS. This is a racism issue that has been clouded, quite ingeniously by the Indians, by counter claims of bad sportsmanship.

And lets be honest... what do the Australian public generally see as the bigger issue- pride in sport or racial vilification?

 

[RoyalBlue]

And lets be honest... what do the Australian public generally see as the bigger issue- pride in sport or racial vilification?

I think the Australian public by and large sees racism as wrong.

I think a lot of people also see a team of white guys playing against a team of brown guys.

A lot of people here are referring to the monkey taunts from the indian crowd. While perhaps Australian crowds arent stuipid enough to get caught peforming crude pantomime on camera, they'd be equally abusive.

AFL is a sport where the performances of Aboriginal players, some highlighted vilifiction cases on field, and a shit load of public education has lessened the amount of racial abuse in the crowds - and yet consistantly I'll hear some ****wit think it's actually socially reasonably to stand up and racially abuse Aboriginal players during games.

I seem to recall a lot of people saying that Nel should get over being called a 'kaffir' when they toured here last.

Kaffir means nothing to you or me, to South Africans, massively offensive.

Australia's reaction? 'Ohh, get over it!'

You can call me a bastard here, what if to an Indian that insults his mother?

Glenn McGrath wetting his pants when Sarwan (Chanderpaul?) mentioned his wife?

 

[Ry009]

Mitchell Johnson can't keep getting games surely

Mitchell Bandwagon 08!


Takes 'over the line' position in the team a bit too literally for my liking.

 

[chipper]

I reckon a few of you are being a bit hard on Mitch. He's just got to work on a few things like getting a reliable inswinger to right handers going and get the ball pitching in the right spots and I reckon he'll take a lot of wickets. Inswinger, inswinger and then bowl one that just kicks going straight and no batsmen will last too long (ala Akram).

Though I'd prefer to have Tait in instead of him at the moment just to strike fear into the batsmen, I think Johnson will prove to be an excellent bowler once he develops his skills a bit more. He's pretty sharp as well getting them up around 150 kmh often. An sms to ABC on radio explained it pretty well I reckon the other day. Said that while Tait is bowling thunderbolts for a couple of years while he is young and strong put him in the side. Johnson is a very handy work in progress that will come into his own in 1 or 2 seasons. Love to see Tait bowl at Perth like he did in the 20/20 match for Aus. That bowling from Lee and Tait was some of the fastest and unplayable stuff I've ever seen.

 

[RoyalBlue]

I reckon a few of you are being a bit hard on Mitch. He's just got to work on a few things like getting a reliable inswinger to right handers going and get the ball pitching in the right spots and I reckon he'll take a lot of wickets. Inswinger, inswinger and then bowl one that just kicks going straight and no batsmen will last too long (ala Akram).

Though I'd prefer to have Tait in instead of him at the moment just to strike fear into the batsmen, I think Johnson will prove to be an excellent bowler once he develops his skills a bit more. He's pretty sharp as well getting them up around 150 kmh often. An sms to ABC on radio explained it pretty well I reckon the other day. Said that while Tait is bowling thunderbolts for a couple of years while he is young and strong put him in the side. Johnson is a very handy work in progress that will come into his own in 1 or 2 seasons. Love to see Tait bowl at Perth like he did in the 20/20 match for Aus. That bowling from Lee and Tait was some of the fastest and unplayable stuff I've ever seen.

He could do with bowling a line the batsman actually has to play.

 

[The Filth Wizard]

I think the Australian public by and large sees racism as wrong.

I think a lot of people also see a team of white guys playing against a team of brown guys.

A lot of people here are referring to the monkey taunts from the indian crowd. While perhaps Australian crowds arent stuipid enough to get caught peforming crude pantomime on camera, they'd be equally abusive.

AFL is a sport where the performances of Aboriginal players, some highlighted vilifiction cases on field, and a shit load of public education has lessened the amount of racial abuse in the crowds - and yet consistantly I'll hear some ****wit think it's actually socially reasonably to stand up and racially abuse Aboriginal players during games.

I seem to recall a lot of people saying that Nel should get over being called a 'kaffir' when they toured here last.

Kaffir means nothing to you or me, to South Africans, massively offensive.

Australia's reaction? 'Ohh, get over it!'

You can call me a bastard here, what if to an Indian that insults his mother?

Glenn McGrath wetting his pants when Sarwan (Chanderpaul?) mentioned his wife?

Good post man, really.

I guess it is relative... the way I see it though is that the context is blurry. Symonds should never be called a monkey in any circumstance, except maybe if he is purposely acting like one. Otherwise, it is racism. If Hogg calls someone a bastard on the field, yes, it could be an insult, and would be regarded as merely a sledge but would surely never be construed as racism. One is illegal, one isn't and the Indians just looked like they were embarassing themselves by even mentioning it in the context of what they had been accused of.

We will never be rid off sledging... but crossing the line into racism is what should be penalised.

However, if the person that Hogg called a bastard was called that because Hogg has prior knowledge that this is deemed a personal insult to them, he should be shamed by it. Its kind of like the Headland/Selwood incident from the start of the year.

 

[RoyalBlue]

Good post man, really.

I guess it is relative... the way I see it though is that the context is blurry. Symonds should never be called a monkey in any circumstance, except maybe if he is purposely acting like one. Otherwise, it is racism. If Hogg calls someone a bastard on the field, yes, it could be an insult, and would be regarded as merely a sledge but would surely never be construed as racism. One is illegal, one isn't and the Indians just looked like they were embarassing themselves by even mentioning it in the context of what they had been accused of.

We will never be rid off sledging... but crossing the line into racism is what should be penalised.

However, if the person that Hogg called a bastard was called that because Hogg has prior knowledge that this is deemed a personal insult to them, he should be shamed by it. Its kind of like the Headland/Selwood incident from the start of the year.

The only thing Hogg should be consistantly called on the field is 'Not a Peter Taylor's arseh*le!'

 

[The Filth Wizard]

The only thing Hogg should be consistantly called on the field is 'Not a Peter Taylor's arseh*le!'

Maybe you should make up some T-shirts

 

[giantroo]

Do you really like Hogg that much?

I just love his grin and the way he sticks his tongue out. Pretty much like me.

 

[giantroo]

This, my friend, is fact

Cool.

 

[Mr Reliable]

I think the Australian public by and large sees racism as wrong.

I think a lot of people also see a team of white guys playing against a team of brown guys.

A lot of people here are referring to the monkey taunts from the indian crowd. While perhaps Australian crowds arent stuipid enough to get caught peforming crude pantomime on camera, they'd be equally abusive.

AFL is a sport where the performances of Aboriginal players, some highlighted vilifiction cases on field, and a shit load of public education has lessened the amount of racial abuse in the crowds - and yet consistantly I'll hear some ****wit think it's actually socially reasonably to stand up and racially abuse Aboriginal players during games.

I seem to recall a lot of people saying that Nel should get over being called a 'kaffir' when they toured here last.

Kaffir means nothing to you or me, to South Africans, massively offensive.

Australia's reaction? 'Ohh, get over it!'

You can call me a bastard here, what if to an Indian that insults his mother?

Glenn McGrath wetting his pants when Sarwan (Chanderpaul?) mentioned his wife?

Excellent post, RB.

The McGrath/Sarwan incident is a great example. If the roles had been reversed the Australians might have gone after Sarwan without mercy (non-racist mental disintegration) but McGrath spat the dummy big time and brought it to a head.

To me it was similar to the Liberatore/Bell "orphan" sledge which Belly just copped. Nothing racist in either yet both extremely below the belt. How many similar sledges go unreported year by year?

Just where do you draw the line with sledging? Once it's an accepted part of sport who decides what you can and can't say?

I'd draw the line with my bat if I got sledged too badly but then I'm not risking $1m per year, or as Jeff Thomson says in today's paper, meet me out the back after play and I'll show you who's the big monkey.

 

[Manbearpig]

The McGrath/Sarwan incident is a great example. If the roles had been reversed the Australians might have gone after Sarwan without mercy (non-racist mental disintegration) but McGrath spat the dummy big time and brought it to a head.

I reckon you and RB make some great points, but personally I reckon that we have seen lots of examples of aggressive or questionable behaviour towards the Aussies over the years that the Aussie public brush over pretty quickly.

The behaviour of Arjuna Ranatunga, Ganguly when he was captain, the English with their super-sub fieldsman, the Windies running Dean Jones out on a no-ball, Hansie Cronje stabbing a stump through the umpires rooms and on and on.

I'm not saying these instances are better or worse than anything we have ever done, but I just think we are a lot harsher on our own team than the opposition.

 

[Mr Reliable]

I reckon you and RB make some great points, but personally I reckon that we have seen lots of examples of aggressive or questionable behaviour towards the Aussies over the years that the Aussie public brush over pretty quickly.

The behaviour of Arjuna Ranatunga, Ganguly when he was captain, the English with their super-sub fieldsman, the Windies running Dean Jones out on a no-ball, Hansie Cronje stabbing a stump through the umpires rooms and on and on.

I'm not saying these instances are better or worse than anything we have ever done, but I just think we are a lot harsher on our own team than the opposition.

Maybe so MBP. Our team is probably the best team I have ever seen, certainly streets ahead of its rivals in terms of pure cricket skills. This team has the chance to take cricket to a new level not only in terms of the way it bats, bowls and fields (which is already happening), but also in the way it conducts itself.

IMHO its players have no need to carry on like tools, ever. Whether I'm right or wrong on this, a significant percentage of the public seem to think the team could conduct itself better, with more respect for opponents and for the game itself.

The players seem to think they are playing the game in the right spirit but so many people doubt that. Makes you wonder, what is the right spirit?

Anyway, talk is cheap. I suspect the real test for our team will always come when things are not going great on the field. That is when they slip up IMHO but of course it's always someone else's fault.

 

[Manbearpig]

Maybe so MBP. Our team is probably the best team I have ever seen, certainly streets ahead of its rivals in terms of pure cricket skills. This team has the chance to take cricket to a new level not only in terms of the way it bats, bowls and fields (which is already happening), but also in the way it conducts itself.

IMHO its players have no need to carry on like tools, ever. Whether I'm right or wrong on this, a significant percentage of the public seem to think the team could conduct itself better, with more respect for opponents and for the game itself.

The players seem to think they are playing the game in the right spirit but so many people doubt that. Makes you wonder, what is the right spirit?

Anyway, talk is cheap. I suspect the real test for our team will always come when things are not going great on the field. That is when they slip up IMHO but of course it's always someone else's fault.

Of course the interesting comparison is after the 2005 Ashes, the team was heavily criticised for being too friendly with the English team.

If you transferred this whole situation to football, its like saying one team tackled too hard and got some favorable free kicks.

 

[BlueRoos]

The only thing Hogg should be consistantly called on the field is 'Not a Peter Taylor's arseh*le!'

gold...

for pure style points its hard to beat the 'pantomime' runup of Peter 'Who?' Taylor... something George should well take on board.

 

[The Teflon Dean]

My solution:

Kick them out of the country for racist remarks and unsportsmanlike conduct.

 

[NICK_ROOBOY83]

My solution:

Kick them out of the country for racist remarks and unsportsmanlike conduct.

$$$