Tasmania Riewoldt calls on AFL to give Tassie its own team

[Colonial]

Jeff Kennett also had this to say in an email sent out to all hawthorn members:

My disappointment with the fixture is with regards to the Tassie games.

Apart from the first game against St Kilda, all our Tassie games are against interstate teams.

While I respect those teams, I have long argued that the Tasmanian community would like to see some of the older Melbourne clubs on our schedule. It is very disappointing for Tasmanians who love their football and we believe they should be given better recognition by those who administer the game.

Always the politician.

No way would he want the lucrative derby games against fellow Melbournites moved to Tassie.(No disrespect to Tassie intended)
If Hawks wanted interstate games in Melbourne, and Im definitely sure that the interstate clubs would want more games in Melbourne, then the AFL would do it.

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[madmug]

Always the politician.

No way would he want the lucrative derby games against fellow Melbournites moved to Tassie.(No disrespect to Tassie intended)
If Hawks wanted interstate games in Melbourne, and Im definitely sure that the interstate clubs would want more games in Melbourne, then the AFL would do it.

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As a Tasmanian, none taken.

Its bleedin' obvious what he's up to. The problem has been enabled by the AFL & the State Government. I hope Government are playing the long suit on this, not too much longer I hope.

Crawling up the AFLs arse hasn't helped too much. I think theirs pressure on both parties to sort this disgrace out.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

As a Tasmanian, none taken.

Its bleedin' obvious what he's up to. The problem has been enabled by the AFL & the State Government. I hope Government are playing the long suit on this, not too much longer I hope.

Crawling up the AFLs arse hasn't helped too much. I think theirs pressure on both parties to sort this disgrace out.

Werent journos saying after the new hawks deal the afl accepted it reluctantly, and its likely to be their last (hint being to tassie govt youve got five years to transition to north)

 

[madmug]

Werent journos saying after the new hawks deal the afl accepted it reluctantly, and its likely to be their last (hint being to tassie govt youve got five years to transition to north)

That'd be right. Get rid of one & get another busted arse outfit to suck on the community & the taxpayers tit.

 

[darcytiger]

As a Tasmanian, none taken.

Its bleedin' obvious what he's up to. The problem has been enabled by the AFL & the State Government. I hope Government are playing the long suit on this, not too much longer I hope.

Crawling up the AFLs arse hasn't helped too much. I think theirs pressure on both parties to sort this disgrace out.

A question I’ve wondered for a while, as a Tasmanian....

If north/Gold Coast was to relocate to Tassie full time, would you ditch your current club and support them?

If Tassie was to get a new team from scratch would you ditch your current team and support them?

What is the general feeling on this matter amongst your peers?

 

[madmug]

A question I’ve wondered for a while, as a Tasmanian....

If north/Gold Coast was to relocate to Tassie full time, would you ditch your current club and support them?

If Tassie was to get a new team from scratch would you ditch your current team and support them?

What is the general feeling on this matter amongst your peers?

1) No. I'd go to some games I suppose. Thats about it.

2) I'd be a member & support Tassie. I'd always have some B&W in me but home club first. Just like what happened with people in WA, SA, Qld etc.

3) Our lot are much the same. I cant speak for the younger ones. They would probably be more amenable to change.

 

[Tits_McGee]

GWS, GC and North cut

Tassie team in. 16 teams

 

[madmug]

GWS, GC and North cut

Tassie team in. 16 teams

That combination will never happen. At the very least, the AFL are never wrong so will hang onto GWS & GC just like the other financial basket case clubs.

In reality, & no matter how stupid the idea, Tassie will, at best, end up with a part time basket case club. Thats of no value to anyone, except the AFL itself perhaps.

 

[telsor]

In reality, & no matter how stupid the idea, Tassie will, at best, end up with a part time basket case club. Thats of no value to anyone, except the AFL itself perhaps.

See, we do agree on the prospects for a Tas team. (although I'm not so sure about the part time bit)

 

[Colonial]

That combination will never happen. At the very least, the AFL are never wrong so will hang onto GWS & GC just like the other financial basket case clubs.

In reality, & no matter how stupid the idea, Tassie will, at best, end up with a part time basket case club. Thats of no value to anyone, except the AFL itself perhaps.

I am for a Tassie team but damn the prospects of the future is no better for Tassie than the supposed basket cases you talk about, probably worse.

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[telsor]

I am for a Tassie team but damn the prospects of the future is no better for Tassie than the supposed basket cases you talk about, probably worse.

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Be careful...That's been my point all along, and as a result I apparently hate Tasmania and everything to do with it (including any potential team there).

 

[Colonial]

Be careful...That's been my point all along, and as a result I apparently hate Tasmania and everything to do with it (including any potential team there).

Doesnt really bother me what they think.
Im for a Tassie, Canberra and WA3 team in the end.

What im against is killing off clubs or pushing that agenda but then trying to pull heartstrings to bring a different team in.

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[telsor]

Doesnt really bother me what they think.
Im for a Tassie, Canberra and WA3 team in the end.

What im against is killing off clubs or pushing that agenda but then trying to pull heartstrings to bring a different team in.

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Pretty much agree.

Not so sure Canberra has the market to support a team, and while I'm willing to regretfully accept teams being killed off (after being given a good, fair, shot), I don't agree with doing so just to replace them with teams that will be as bad, or worse, financially....This latter bit is why I upset people regarding Tas...

 

[madmug]

Pretty much agree.

Not so sure Canberra has the market to support a team, and while I'm willing to regretfully accept teams being killed off (after being given a good, fair, shot), I don't agree with doing so just to replace them with teams that will be as bad, or worse, financially....This latter bit is why I upset people regarding Tas...

What constitutes a fair shot? Clearly more than a century as some clubs have had that & more yet are still surviving on handouts. The draft & the salary cap is meant to create an even field. Its just created mediocrity. Why bother when the AFL bankrolls the perennial strugglers.

 

[Our Game]

Maybe if the Tassie government gave the millions they currently pay to North and Hawthorn to a Tassie team they could afford to have their own team in the AFL

 

[madmug]

If the State gument gave Tasmanian football 25% of the money they waste on FIFO clubs, we'd be a whole lot better off.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

What constitutes a fair shot? Clearly more than a century as some clubs have had that & more yet are still surviving on handouts. The draft & the salary cap is meant to create an even field. Its just created mediocrity. Why bother when the AFL bankrolls the perennial strugglers.

North is only 90 years in, still needs more time to settle in apparently

 

[telsor]

What constitutes a fair shot? Clearly more than a century as some clubs have had that & more yet are still surviving on handouts. The draft & the salary cap is meant to create an even field. Its just created mediocrity. Why bother when the AFL bankrolls the perennial strugglers.

Maybe getting a gate return that doesn't have the league siphoning off a significant part of it would help...

and then, proof that any replacement team would be better by enough of a margin to make up for the losses in support that the league and code would have from losing the team(s) that were cut....why kill one 'perennial struggler' only to create another, especially if it means the comp as a whole is weaker through making that change? (From the Fitzroy experience, that was roughly 1/3 of the total, and they were at least in theory 'merged'...To completely kill a club would presumably be worse...Probably worth noting that this is one of the reasons relocation is far more viable than killing a club and building a new one).

 

[Colonial]

Maybe getting a gate return that doesn't have the league siphoning off a significant part of it would help...

and then, proof that any replacement team would be better by enough of a margin to make up for the losses in support that the league and code would have from losing the team(s) that were cut....why kill one 'perennial struggler' only to create another, especially if it means the comp as a whole is weaker through making that change? (From the Fitzroy experience, that was roughly 1/3 of the total, and they were at least in theory 'merged'...To completely kill a club would presumably be worse...Probably worth noting that this is one of the reasons relocation is far more viable than killing a club and building a new one).

Damn its been a weird 24hrs when im agreeing with your posts.

 

[madmug]

Maybe getting a gate return that doesn't have the league siphoning off a significant part of it would help...

and then, proof that any replacement team would be better by enough of a margin to make up for the losses in support that the league and code would have from losing the team(s) that were cut....why kill one 'perennial struggler' only to create another, especially if it means the comp as a whole is weaker through making that change? (From the Fitzroy experience, that was roughly 1/3 of the total, and they were at least in theory 'merged'...To completely kill a club would presumably be worse...Probably worth noting that this is one of the reasons relocation is far more viable than killing a club and building a new one).

The league is far stronger now than when Fitzroy were in the league, why would that be?. What makes you think a further 'rationalisation' wouldn't put the AFL in an even better position.?

The problem is you apply the emotional test to the current clubs, but ignore the emotional or opportunity test for anyone else. The only 'proof' is looking at an application. We've been through this so many times.

The AFL is run by its own politics. Thats why we have such an inefficient welfare system running football.

WA3 & Tas1.

 

[BringBackTorps]

That combination will never happen. At the very least, the AFL are never wrong so will hang onto GWS & GC just like the other financial basket case clubs.

In reality, & no matter how stupid the idea, Tassie will, at best, end up with a part time [?]basket case club. Thats of no value to anyone, except the AFL itself perhaps.

Tasmania will get its own full time team eventually (probably based in Hobart, playing equal games in Launceston). This team will enter the AFL soon after after GC & GWS are reasonably self sufficient -c.10 years +.

The AFL realise the huge opportunity cost they are paying -by the failure, since the late 90's, of the Tas. VFL/AFL recruitment goldmine. It is for this reason that both Demetriou & McLachlan (the latter, as recently as early 2017) have both said, paraphrasing ,".. when the AFL expands next, the next team in will probably be from Tasmania".
There would be an absolute UPROAR if the AFL reneged on this " committment".

Do you think they were being dishonest?

 

[madmug]

Tasmania will get its own full time team eventually (probably based in Hobart, playing equal games in Launceston). This team will enter the AFL soon after after GC & GWS are reasonably self sufficient -c.10 years +.

The AFL realise the huge opportunity cost they are paying -by the failure, since the late 90's, of the Tas. VFL/AFL recruitment goldmine. It is for this reason that both Demetriou & McLachlan (the latter, as recently as early 2017) have both said, paraphrasing ,".. when the AFL expands next, the next team in will probably be from Tasmania".
There would be an absolute UPROAR if the AFL reneged on this " committment".

Do you think they were being dishonest?

I think they will say whatever suits them at the time. It was always a political situation. They know the AFL is terribly unbalanced. Starting 2 new clubs but not rationalising the balance of the league was risky at best, if not just foolhardy.

To waffle on about Tassie being next was just a little trite & dismissive. Its a never ending, never realised sort of position. A 'comittment' of nothing. Then you get Fitzpatricks stupidity which makes you realise how stuck in a mindset & ignorant they must be.

As an example I mean how could WA, being the second biggest footy market, be left with 2 clubs? Let alone the AFL's poor behaviour towards Tasmania. As said, the AFL has been so politically bound, one doesn't know what they are trying to achieve. Apart from absolute control of the games incomes & spending. As well as maintaining the Melbourne hegemony (Its one big & obvious 'comittment').

All one asks is fair equity in the game that we contribute so much to & have been basically left to rot since the AFL started.

The sheer under investment here is a disgrace to the game.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

The problem is you apply the emotional test to the current clubs, but ignore the emotional or opportunity test for anyone else. The only 'proof' is looking at an application. We've been through this so many times.

This line of reasoning makes no rational sense whatsoever. If your argument here is that you need apply "emotions" to both existing AFL clubs (including ones that you claim are on 'welfare') and a theoretical Tasmania team, it doesn't support the argument for a Tasmanian team whatsoever.

If the argument is that you can't claim the "emotions" of losing an existing AFL team without looking at the "emotions" of gaining a Tasmania it's not something that's on equal footing even though you're trying to claim that it is. It's not because the emotions of several hundred thousands of people going through the traumatic experience of losing a team that they tangibly had is significantly more emotional than any "trauma" suffered from a Tasmanian not having a team that never existed. The act of losing a team that I have supported and suffered for years on end until we finally won a flag in 2016 would quite logically be more traumatic than the experience of any Tasmanian having grown up without a Tasmanian team.

And how exactly does the "emotion" argument fit into WA3? Everyone there supports one of West Coast and Freo - there's no third party of people either traditionally or demographically calling for a 3rd WA team, in fact the argument is entirely economic and not emotional for a WA3 team.

 

[madmug]

This line of reasoning makes no rational sense whatsoever. If your argument here is that you need apply "emotions" to both existing AFL clubs (including ones that you claim are on 'welfare') and a theoretical Tasmania team, it doesn't support the argument for a Tasmanian team whatsoever.

If the argument is that you can't claim the "emotions" of losing an existing AFL team without looking at the "emotions" of gaining a Tasmania it's not something that's on equal footing even though you're trying to claim that it is. It's not because the emotions of several hundred thousands of people going through the traumatic experience of losing a team that they tangibly had is significantly more emotional than any "trauma" suffered from a Tasmanian not having a team that never existed. The act of losing a team that I have supported and suffered for years on end until we finally won a flag in 2016 would quite logically be more traumatic than the experience of any Tasmanian having grown up without a Tasmanian team.

And how exactly does the "emotion" argument fit into WA3? Everyone there supports one of West Coast and Freo - there's no third party of people either traditionally or demographically calling for a 3rd WA team, in fact the argument is entirely economic and not emotional for a WA3 team.

Its clear that emotion shouldn't be the basis of a club in a 'professional' league. Thats the problem now. Too much ongoing emotion applied to continually under performing clubs.

Things change. People get retrenched, move house, start new jobs, etc etc. Change is part of life. The AFL is stronger now than when Fitzroy were exited. What does that say? One less club in the Melbourne area wasn't missed. Thats what it said. The guarantee of the status quo creates mediocrity. Laziness is the outcome.

The NFL has seen clubs move cities for opportunity. So their is clearly an advantage to having some change.

'Melbourne' 10 clubs, Perth 2 clubs. Thats plainly crazy. Who says all WA follow either WCE or Freo anyway?. Didn't all of Sydney follow the Swans? All of Qld follow the Lions? Yes they did, but the plan was to try to expand so the AFL started GWS & GC anyway. The result is yet to be seen. Success in a non AFL area is not guaranteed. However a new club drawing on the history of the WAFL is the one adventure which would attract football people in a huge football market in WA.

Tassie too is strong, but under invested, football territory. Quite capable of supporting a club. WA & SA people supported new clubs, so too would Tasmanians.

Trauma of losing a club? Wouldn't happen if they were able to support themselves. The fact some clubs can't do that over the long hall shows that they need welfare. They need more than emotion.

 

[Prince Imperial]

However a new club drawing on the history of the WAFL is the one adventure which would attract football people in a huge football market in WA.

Can you elaborate more on this? What would the club be called and who and where would its supporters come from? It's over 30 years since the Eagles were created and the WAFL clubs have little support (with average crowds less than 2k). Most footy fans in WA do support WC and Freo with a small number following other AFL clubs and its unlikely that many would drop their decades old allegiances.

Importantly, there is no push at all (and hasn't been) from the WAFC or any of the WAFL clubs for a new team to enter the AFL. If you're waiting for WA3 you will be waiting a very long time (and possibly forever).