Roast Rigged flags: how the VFL cooked the books

Remove this Banner Ad

tribey

One-Eyed Vaccinated Boys Club Member
Mar 9, 2003
63,208
166,014
Queen St & Peter Rd
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
NUFC, YES.
Hawthorn "Dynasty" - Luke Hodge and Jarryd Roughead as priority picks.
Just a quick correction, ND2001#1 (Luke Hodge) was acquired via trading Trent Croad and Luke McPharlin to Freo.

Their other priority pick was ND2005#3 (Xavier Ellis).
 

Andre

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 3, 2002
26,756
33,045
Adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
The VFL is a large part of the problem without a doubt. It's why we need to support Gold Coast even though they are forever sh*t, in the hope they can stand up without the AFL's help.

Until the Victorians are in a minority we can whinge all we like, but nothing's changing. The Vics know this, which is why the big Vic clubs will stand up for the little one's and let them have a flag once or twice a decade, as long as the big Vic clubs get the majority. Non-Vic clubs are allowed once a decade or so now, to make it appear it's still a National competition. They don't want our success, but still need our money.

It's why a 19th team in Tasmania, although bad on-field in the short term, with even more diluted talent, is another critical step towards less Vic sides then non-Vic sides. We get a Tassie side and North aren't getting Tasmanian money. That increases the chances they go under and we're by 2030 (yeah, this isn't happening quickly) back to 18 sides, but 9-9 Vic/Non-Vic. Then there's a good chance we can stop Saints (most likely given their debts) getting too much help and they go under. Then no longer a Vic majority and finally things can really be addressed.

There's other issues, as touched upon here. For the SA clubs there's the fact the SANFL still run the state as if the SANFL competition matters, doing a sh*t job of player development. Over the last 20 years SA has consistently being under-represented by size at the top end of the draft. Most especially for that most rare commodity of quality KPP's.

Of course, even with all that, if we'd had a competent coach the last 2 years we'd have been able to overcome the disadvantages and have another flag or two.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

MrMeaner

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 15, 2004
8,995
11,940
Melbourne
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Of course Victorian clubs have it easier. The concentration of teams, combined with Melbourne's production of and attraction to those who work in football is one of the advantages. It makes it easier to fill assistant coach positions when you are not asking candidates to uproot themselves and their families. Melbourne has a much bigger pool of such coaches from which to choose.

As we saw with Wingard, there is also an attraction for players going over to Victoria as the bigger market gives greater opportunities for sponsorship deals and other non-playing perks. Sponsorship is obviously easier for clubs too.

Then there is the advantage created by the MCG deal. Should the non-Vic teams make it past the PF, there is a good chance they will have to play on their opponent's home ground.

All of that is not to excuse our failures over the past two seasons. Failing at the Prelim was on us, not on any structural issues inherent in the AFL. We f’ed it, twice. That is inexcusable. The root of that is our internal problems, mostly related to our lack of control over our own fate. That's where the insidious nature of the AFL's structure hits us. The other imbalances just make it a bit harder.
 

bomberclifford

Importer/Exporter
Sep 2, 2005
31,391
97,604
Cerebral Cortex
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Port Adelaide Magpies
Over the past 16 years, the VFL have seen a number of clubs break their premiership droughts.

Coincidentally, this period began right about the time that Ron Barassi called for an investigation into why Victorian teams weren't keeping up with 'interstate' sides.


South Melbourne/Sydney200572 year drought
Geelong200744 year drought
Hawthorn200817 year drought
Collingwood201020 year drought
Richmond201737 year drought
Footscray/Western Bulldogs201662 year drought
Melbourne202157 year drought


Amazing coincidences.
 

Pappagallo

Bad Hatter
Jun 12, 2012
18,946
59,292
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Over the past 16 years, the VFL have seen a number of clubs break their premiership droughts.

Coincidentally, this period began right about the time that Ron Barassi called for an investigation into why Victorian teams weren't keeping up with 'interstate' sides.


South Melbourne/Sydney200572 year drought
Geelong200744 year drought
Hawthorn200817 year drought
Collingwood201020 year drought
Richmond201737 year drought
Footscray/Western Bulldogs201662 year drought
Melbourne202157 year drought


Amazing coincidences.
"You don't want any one section to be continually dominating unless of course IT’S US! That's a different story altogether, but that's the reason why I take this stance."

FTFY Ron.
 

bomberclifford

Importer/Exporter
Sep 2, 2005
31,391
97,604
Cerebral Cortex
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Port Adelaide Magpies
"You don't want any one section to be continually dominating unless of course IT’S US! That's a different story altogether, but that's the reason why I take this stance."

FTFY Ron.
I like the unintended faux pax in the previous sentence.

"You should be doing something about that, investigating as to why, and if there is a why that can be fixed, you fix it"
 

TeeKray

Moderator
Mar 1, 2014
15,446
83,754
Perth
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Only 2 of the last 15 years have seen non Victorian teams win the premiership. Both were by powerhouse clubs Sydney and West Coast and both won the grand final by single digit margins.

There have been 6 all Victorian grand finals in this time and 0 all non Victorian grand finals.

Of the 7 losing non Victorian grand finalists, 5 were demolished (Port '07, Sydney '14, West Coast '15, Adelaide '17, GWS '19), 1 stayed close due to being a dour defensive team but were never really a chance (Freo '13) and 1 was blatantly cheated out of the premiership by partisan umpiring (Sydney '16).

When you look at this set of statistics, it should dawn on you exactly how difficult it is going to be for any of us to see another Port premiership in our lifetimes.
 

tribey

One-Eyed Vaccinated Boys Club Member
Mar 9, 2003
63,208
166,014
Queen St & Peter Rd
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
NUFC, YES.
When you look at this set of statistics, it should dawn on you exactly how difficult it is going to be for any of us to see another Port premiership in our lifetimes.
Hopefully there’ll be some once-in-a-century circumstance which could see us qualify for home Prelims in years where the Grand Final is played on neutral territory, instead of in the belly of the beast against a local tilt?
 

tribey

One-Eyed Vaccinated Boys Club Member
Mar 9, 2003
63,208
166,014
Queen St & Peter Rd
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
NUFC, YES.
Hopefully there’ll be some once-in-a-century circumstance which could see us qualify for home Prelims in years where the Grand Final is played on neutral territory, instead of in the belly of the beast against a local tilt?
Don’t be silly Tribes, an opportunity like that will never present itself lol
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

vozzon

All Australian
Feb 1, 2016
735
392
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
From 1992 to 2006 "interstate" clubs won 10 out of 15 flags, including 6 in a row from 2001-2006.

Clearly this was unacceptable and something had to give to tilt the balance back. Since then almost every flag has had some form of leg up from the VFL in terms of advantage.

Geelong "Dynasty" - Dank. Ablett Jnr and Tom Hawkins for free under father son rules that blatantly favoured Victoria.

Hawthorn "Dynasty" - Luke Hodge and Jarryd Roughead as priority picks. They then changed the rules on priority picks making them much harder to come by. Compromised drafts due to expansion clubs made it impossible to catch up.

Western Bulldogs 2016 - umpiring interference. The bye which severely diminished any advantage for being top 4.

Richmond 2017 - Undeserved home ground advantage against a higher ranked team. Cotchin takes out Shiel with a head high bump, concussing him and turning the prelim. Not suspended.

Melbourne - So bad for so long that the AFL, the administrators of the game, took over and stabilised the club, even appointing their own coach and succession planning. Training wheels premiership.

The only legit flags were Collingwood in 2010 and maybe the last 2 Richmond ones.
Pies had a priority pick in the daisy/pendles draft (one was a prioty pick). Add in the father son 2x shaw and trav cloke picks helped there list.
 

sobrave

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 15, 2015
20,741
43,564
42° south
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Over the past 16 years, the VFL have seen a number of clubs break their premiership droughts.

Coincidentally, this period began right about the time that Ron Barassi called for an investigation into why Victorian teams weren't keeping up with 'interstate' sides.


South Melbourne/Sydney200572 year drought
Geelong200744 year drought
Hawthorn200817 year drought
Collingwood201020 year drought
Richmond201737 year drought
Footscray/Western Bulldogs201662 year drought
Melbourne202157 year drought


Amazing coincidences.
don't worry, I'm sure there will be a thorough investigation as to why "interstate" teams aren't winning flags.
 

Livonski

Norm Smith Medallist
May 23, 2010
6,425
14,333
Leafy Eastern Suburbs
AFL Club
Richmond
Only 2 of the last 15 years have seen non Victorian teams win the premiership. Both were by powerhouse clubs Sydney and West Coast and both won the grand final by single digit margins.

There have been 6 all Victorian grand finals in this time and 0 all non Victorian grand finals.

Of the 7 losing non Victorian grand finalists, 5 were demolished (Port '07, Sydney '14, West Coast '15, Adelaide '17, GWS '19), 1 stayed close due to being a dour defensive team but were never really a chance (Freo '13) and 1 was blatantly cheated out of the premiership by partisan umpiring (Sydney '16).

When you look at this set of statistics, it should dawn on you exactly how difficult it is going to be for any of us to see another Port premiership in our lifetimes.
Data mining?

8 flags this century have been won by non Vic clubs. 21 flags contested.
GWS and GC didnt exist for at least half of them, so 8 out of 16 clubs in existence for the total time.
That's 50%. When less than 40% of clubs were non vic. So non Vic won more than expected!
Hah!
Don't over complicate this, it's swings and roundabouts.
Get the right people running the club. List manager, CEO, low profile president, strong footy boss,good coach with good assistants, create culture of selflessness, no egos...easy.
 

sobrave

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 15, 2015
20,741
43,564
42° south
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Data mining?

8 flags this century have been won by non Vic clubs. 21 flags contested.
GWS and GC didnt exist for at least half of them, so 8 out of 16 clubs in existence for the total time.
That's 50%. When less than 40% of clubs were non vic. So non Vic won more than expected!
Hah!
Don't over complicate this, it's swings and roundabouts.
Get the right people running the club. List manager, CEO, low profile president, strong footy boss,good coach with good assistants, create culture of selflessness, no egos...easy.
Are you old enough to remember the uproar around 2005/6 that the non Victorian clubs were winning all the flags? Just sheer coincidence I suppose that from that point it's been dominated by Victorian teams.
 

longdonkey

Club Legend
Jul 27, 2011
2,106
1,731
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Can't see a non-Vic team ever win a premiership again when Hamish Hartlett can run a ball out of bounds in a rainstorm and get penalised and have the game lost from the resultant goal. Next year a Taylor Duryea runs the ball out of bounds with less than 15 seconds to go and is the hero when Bulldogs win by a point.
 

LaunchpadMcQuack

#lolport
Jul 6, 2011
1,982
6,170
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Data mining?

8 flags this century have been won by non Vic clubs. 21 flags contested.
GWS and GC didnt exist for at least half of them, so 8 out of 16 clubs in existence for the total time.
That's 50%. When less than 40% of clubs were non vic. So non Vic won more than expected!
Hah!
Don't over complicate this, it's swings and roundabouts.
Get the right people running the club. List manager, CEO, low profile president, strong footy boss,good coach with good assistants, create culture of selflessness, no egos...easy.
Quick mafs.

There are 8 flags from non-Victorian clubs from 21 contested seasons (2001-2021). That is a non-Victorian flag win rate of 38%.

If you discount the flags won by teams with cost of living adjustment (BL 2001/2002/2003, Sydney 2005), for fairness let's also discount any Carlton flags, that becomes 23% (i.e. 4 flags from 17 contested seasons).

Since Barassi demanded for the inquiry as to why the poor Vics weren't winning enough flags, non-Victorian teams have 2 from 15 seasons - 13%.

Swings and roundabouts.
 

Dylan8

Bar Up
Apr 7, 2013
39,380
79,342
Burn City
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Liverpool FC
Quick mafs.

There are 8 flags from non-Victorian clubs from 21 contested seasons (2001-2021). That is a non-Victorian flag win rate of 38%.

If you discount the flags won by teams with cost of living adjustment (BL 2001/2002/2003, Sydney 2005), for fairness let's also discount any Carlton flags, that becomes 23% (i.e. 4 flags from 17 contested seasons).

Since Barassi demanded for the inquiry as to why the poor Vics weren't winning enough flags, non-Victorian teams have 2 from 15 seasons - 13%.

Swings and roundabouts.
Pretty mad how according to this thread, every single flag has an asterisk
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad