Society/Culture Right wingers, what is your idea of the ideal society?

[medusala]

No probs, I will just walk into your house and take whatever I want, seeing as though you don't believe in those pesky govt regulations that created your property rights.

oh dear not that dribble again. Go and read some Adam Smith.

 

[The Passenger]

You really think progressive are anti 18c? Pro being able to negotiate their employment conditions free of state interference?

The amount of complaints lodged and prosecutions made under 18C is infinitesimal. A total of 77 complaints in 2015/16. In practice it impinges on your right free speech to about the extent you can't call someone a black campaigner, fellow, camel ******* ****** and various slurs. I think that belongs under the woe is me files. It was interesting watching people come out of the woodwork because no one really gave much of a s**t about it till Andrew Bolt got convicted and riled up his rabid supporter base about it.

And lets be truthful - negotiating employment conditions free of state interference is really just code for a business should be allowed to try and * you over a barrel as hard as possible. There's still no upper limits on the pay and conditions you're allowed to negotiate for. There are rightfully minimum limits for what they are allowed to offer to protect people who - unlike you or me - do not have the education, confidence or are in a life situation where they can't push for such minimum standards and would - if they were put in the position - accept any pay or conditions. Case in point backpackers receiving appalling pay to go work farms so they can get a second year working holiday visa. When living in a hostel in Melbourne I witnessed first hand cake store owners from Acland Street in St Kilda trying to recruit to backpackers to pay them as little as $8 an hour cash - often successfully.

 

[Number37]

oh dear not that dribble again. Go and read some Adam Smith.

Look, I know it is a little out of your depth but perhaps you could read the constitution and get back to me on whether you still think Adam Smith's writing trumps it.

 

[medusala]

The amount of complaints lodged and prosecutions made under 18C is infinitesimal.

Lol what an argument. How many people done last year for bestiaity? Want to drop that? Not too man terrorism charges, that can go to. Sedition, that can go too.

And lets be truthful - negotiating employment conditions free of state interference is really just code for a business should be allowed to try and **** you over a barrel as hard as possible

I have never had a problem. I have however been forced to join a union three times. Utterly repulsive.

 

[Chief]

Lol what an argument. How many people done last year for bestiaity? Want to drop that? Not too man terrorism charges, that can go to. Sedition, that can go too.

So we’ve heard your argument for 18c.

Now do you want to argue against it?


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[The Passenger]

Lol what an argument. How many people done last year for bestiaity? Want to drop that? Not too man terrorism charges, that can go to. Sedition, that can go too.

And how many people engage in such activities?

I'm very much pro free speech but the line for 18C is drawn so far to the extreme that - to be honest - it doesn't really bother me.

So much s**t gets written in the press every day and the vast vast majority of it gets the green light.

What exactly do you want to say that you can't? Total free speech advocates refer to Evelyn Hall's famous line but if were going to pushing the case that we should be able to walk down the street calling black people "n****r coconuts" or gay people "f****t pillow biters" then it's pretty hard to give that much support.

Total free speech sounds great in theory (and it is something I agree with in principle) until you realise the power words can have, particularly against minority groups. With Apologies to Jesse Jackson is a brilliant South Park episode for anyone thinking "they are just words. they can't hurt".

I have never had a problem. I have however been forced to join a union three times. Utterly repulsive.

I've never had a problem with being ****ed over a barrel either. But I know plenty of people who have - refer to above with backpackers being targeted to work for cash under minimum wage. This isn't really an uncommon story.

FWIW being forced to join a union should not be allowed. I don't know what work you do but that shouldn't be a thing. Can't say I've ever heard of it happening to anyone I know, but that's not to say it isn't a thing.

 

[medusala]

So we’ve heard your argument for 18c.

Now do you want to argue against it?

Its arbitrary to the point of stupidity and an insane attack on freedom of speech

The offence provision is an indefensible joke. Hurt feelings, cry me a river.

There is no rational argument in favour of it. I get offended by people eating apples on public transport, its far worse than being called a 'convict'. Want to ban that too? No of course not.

 

[medusala]

What exactly do you want to say that you can't? Total free speech advocates refer to Evelyn Hall's famous line but if were going to pushing the case that we should be able to walk down the street calling black people "n****r coconuts" or gay people "f****t pillow biters" then it's pretty hard to give that much support.

No, its perfectly acceptable to give that much support. Just because you dont want something criminalised does NOT mean you condone it.

Some attention seeking prate the other day complained in London in a traffic accident about being called a NTTAWWTter. TFL started banging on about hate crimes blah blah. This in a place where property crimes under 200 quid are no longer bothered with. Utterly despicable.

Total free speech sounds great in theory (and it is something I agree with in principle) until you realise the power words can have, particularly against minority groups. With Apologies to Jesse Jackson is a brilliant South Park episode for anyone thinking "they are just words. they can't hurt".

NOONE is arguing for totally free speech, property laws are protected eg defamation.

Its utter BS, take the UK for example. Its open season on Jews now by the labour party and particularly its thug left wing element whilst the much larger Muslim vote gets protected because Labour can do the maths (a suprise in itself). Its like use of 'Paki' is a hate crime but 'Aussie' is not. Arbitrary piffle.

All you are doing is encouraging people to get offended. The crocodile tears after Charlie Hebdo were a joke. May as well start burning books.


“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

 

[The Passenger]

I assume you're talking about Will Young? One man on a crusade.

I'm not really sure how Muslim's are protected any more than Jews. Hate crimes against both have gone up in recent years.

Comparing Paki to Aussie is bit ridiculous. Yeah it's arbitrary, but essentially everything is language. Might as well say the difference between n****r and butterfly is arbitrary.

Can you imagine the uproar if the Muslim community tried to erect anything similar to the Eruv's that have been put up in various major cities around the Western world by the Jewish community*? It would be front page news and heart attacks amongst Daily Mail readers would be an all time high. I'm not aware of any similar such thing in the Muslim faith, but my point remains.

*For the record I have no problems at all with Eruv's. I didn't even know they existed till about 5 years ago. Most people don't know they exist. But mark it down under stupid religious rule number 1389: You must obey the sabbath. Unless we put up this unbroken wire around a massive area then there's a list of things that you can now do.