Preview RND 1 - Carlton v Richmond - Thursday 21st March 7:20PM @ MCG - Team Post #1412

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thylacine60

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This is the easiest tipping game of round 1.


I’m not kidding. Those delusional, idiomatic, overrated, loquacious, self important, imposters, from that shit truck, dumpster fire of a club, won’t know what hit them...

Carlton by PLENTY!
Holy shit! I just took a look at the Richmond board. Wow! Just wow!!!



My 8 year old niece watched her puppy get run over by a garbage truck, on the same day her parents got divorced...


SHE CRIED LESS THAN THOSE RICHMOND FLOGS.
coach has clearly had a fine pre-season - up and about early doors........
 

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gbatman

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I disagree with most of what you have written and here is why:

1. Kennedy played as a HFF and rotation into midfield for GWS in his second year - for most of the season until he got injured and missed finals. he is a class player who has been cruelled by inury and mismanagement to date - please don't compare his ability to Gibbons or Jack Sylvagni at this stage - let alone Polson - none of those blokes woudl even be on GWS NEAFL list.
2. SOS paid 2 second rounders for him - he was a key 'get' and a target get just as much as Plowman/Marchbank were from GWS- did you forget?
3. You haven't seen any of Kennedy fit in 2018 so what are you talking about regarding 'from what you've seen"?
4. On what basis do you say Jack is "significantly better defensively?" - seriously on what basis?

Carlton needs to be able to win clearances without Cripps at the center bounce - you need someone who can step in and match it with bigger bodies when required - he comes in because he is another who is a genuine midfield and HFF rotation option - can take a contested mark and can kick straight.

Gibbons or Polson lose out to Fasolo - not Kennedy in the first instance - do you seriously rate Polson or Gibbons as a better forward option than Fasolo?
Kennedy coming in allows for Thomas to play forward pocket or another small fast player to rotate in there - exactly how he was set up to play last year and probably where he will be playing when Marchbank/Williamson come back in.

Kennedy AND Fasolo inclusion improves midfield rotations massively as well as creating smarter better options forward - no brainer.

the only reason Bolton doesn't play Kennedy is if he isnt fit. The only reason Bolton doesn't play Fasolo is if he isnt fit - otherwise he goes into season one blockbuster consciously playing 2 VFL quality experiments in Gibbons and Polson - both having done nothing much in JLT2- which was a far better indicator of AFL levels of intensity that JLT1 praccy match.

My concern is Bolton might be biased towards short blokes who cant tackle /handball/ kick or score goals and cause turnovers 9/10 times they actually touch the ball - that is Polson right now - he should be first out and if Fasolo doesn't play, Bolton goes on to immediate coach watch in my books.
I have seen Kennedy fully fit against VFL players in 2019 in the VFL and was not overly impressed. Played good enough to get a game any time the last 5 years but not this year IMO. I have seen nothing to suggest Kennedy can play up forward. His leg speed suggests he can't. No spot for a player like him up there with Curnow, McGovern, McKay and Cripps at times. I don't think we are desperate for clearance players as that aspect looked good in the JLT, if anything we need speed and run.

Does not matter what we pay for a player or where we take them in the draft. What matters is how they play and who happens to be better options.

I think with Cripps in the side it's going to be tough for Kennedy to get a game. Kennedy plays his role but not at his level. Especially with Dow, SPS, Curnow, Setterfield etc all playing that inside role. I don't think he is best 22 at the moment as he has been pushed out by young players who have just a bit more leg speed and mobility which is good as it's a sign our recruiting is going well.

I watched the VFL practice match and while he did some nice things I am very concerned that slow lateral movement and slow legs peed is going to really limit him at AFL level.

Plowman is a decent player, no guarantee he won't be pushed out, with everyone fit I don't have him in my best 22. That doesn't mean he wont play 22 games though. Marchbank will be best 22 when he is fit, very talented player. In a good list the VFL is for backup AFL quality players, not crap players and we are transitioning from one to the other. Our recruiting has been very focused on that.

Silvagni appears to have good lateral movement and he's not as slow, he also seems really good at the defensive and pressure acts which is a huge weakness in Kennedy's game. If you understand footy and watch Silvagni play you will see his positioning at stoppages and his movements when the opposition have the ball are very effective where with Kennedy he seems to go into witches hat mode. Silvagni was quiet in JLT1 but his defensive stuff on the ball was good. I am guessing it was excellent in the VFL. Depends whether you want a player who gets a bit more of it with no pressure or a player who gets less of it with good pressure.

I'm not saying Kennedy wont make it but if we land some big mids at the end of this season he's going to really struggle. Kennedy has a lot to work on IMO, there are things he needs to be seen doing first.

He is in the VFL at the moment for a reason. It would seem that the club selections so far agree with what I have said. Hence no AFL appearances yet. He will get his opportunity, he will just have to prove he's worthy and lift his game a level.

The club rate Polson. I think he needs to play VFL and get better though. Polson has played because we want speed, outside run and a small forward. I think Fasolo and Gibbons will play due to our needs. Hard to say though.

Midfield rotations are fine. 8 midfielders (Cripps, Murphy, Curnow, Dow, SPS, Fisher, Setterfield, Phillips) and a couple in defence and up forward (Simpson, Garlett, Thomas, Gibbons, Cuningham, Fasolo, McKay) who can rotate through there is enough. That is without Polson, Silvagni and Kennedy. These three should be in the VFL IMO.

These guys need to break into that team, we're not gifting players games anymore because we rate them or we know they have ability or they have shown a bit etc they need to perform and break into it.

This is what happens when your list gets better, you start picking on the players who might be decent AFL players but have weaknesses for more complete players. This means guys who are slow, lack mobility, lack skills, lack defensive or offensive aspects to their game start to miss out for more complete players.

Cripps is probably going to spend 20 minutes outside the center bounce. Hardly worth it bringing a player in to play those 20 minutes. It's like playing two rucks. I'd back who we have.

If bolton is bias towards anything it's players who don't apply defensive pressure.
 

Macca43

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I have seen Kennedy fully fit against VFL players in 2019 in the VFL and was not overly impressed. Played good enough to get a game any time the last 5 years but not this year IMO. I have seen nothing to suggest Kennedy can play up forward. His leg speed suggests he can't. No spot for a player like him up there with Curnow, McGovern, McKay and Cripps at times. I don't think we are desperate for clearance players as that aspect looked good in the JLT, if anything we need speed and run.

Does not matter what we pay for a player or where we take them in the draft. What matters is how they play and who happens to be better options.

I think with Cripps in the side it's going to be tough for Kennedy to get a game. Kennedy plays his role but not at his level. Especially with Dow, SPS, Curnow, Setterfield etc all playing that inside role. I don't think he is best 22 at the moment as he has been pushed out by young players who have just a bit more leg speed and mobility which is good as it's a sign our recruiting is going well.

I watched the VFL practice match and while he did some nice things I am very concerned that slow lateral movement and slow legs peed is going to really limit him at AFL level.

Plowman is a decent player, no guarantee he won't be pushed out, with everyone fit I don't have him in my best 22. That doesn't mean he wont play 22 games though. Marchbank will be best 22 when he is fit, very talented player. In a good list the VFL is for backup AFL quality players, not crap players and we are transitioning from one to the other. Our recruiting has been very focused on that.

Silvagni appears to have good lateral movement and he's not as slow, he also seems really good at the defensive and pressure acts which is a huge weakness in Kennedy's game. If you understand footy and watch Silvagni play you will see his positioning at stoppages and his movements when the opposition have the ball are very effective where with Kennedy he seems to go into witches hat mode. Silvagni was quiet in JLT1 but his defensive stuff on the ball was good. I am guessing it was excellent in the VFL. Depends whether you want a player who gets a bit more of it with no pressure or a player who gets less of it with good pressure.

I'm not saying Kennedy wont make it but if we land some big mids at the end of this season he's going to really struggle. Kennedy has a lot to work on IMO, there are things he needs to be seen doing first.

He is in the VFL at the moment for a reason. It would seem that the club selections so far agree with what I have said. Hence no AFL appearances yet. He will get his opportunity, he will just have to prove he's worthy and lift his game a level.

The club rate Polson. I think he needs to play VFL and get better though. Polson has played because we want speed, outside run and a small forward. I think Fasolo and Gibbons will play due to our needs. Hard to say though.

Midfield rotations are fine. 8 midfielders (Cripps, Murphy, Curnow, Dow, SPS, Fisher, Setterfield, Phillips) and a couple in defence and up forward (Simpson, Garlett, Thomas, Gibbons, Cuningham, Fasolo, McKay) who can rotate through there is enough. That is without Polson, Silvagni and Kennedy. These three should be in the VFL IMO.

These guys need to break into that team, we're not gifting players games anymore because we rate them or we know they have ability or they have shown a bit etc they need to perform and break into it.

This is what happens when your list gets better, you start picking on the players who might be decent AFL players but have weaknesses for more complete players. This means guys who are slow, lack mobility, lack skills, lack defensive or offensive aspects to their game start to miss out for more complete players.

Cripps is probably going to spend 20 minutes outside the center bounce. Hardly worth it bringing a player in to play those 20 minutes. It's like playing two rucks. I'd back who we have.

If bolton is bias towards anything it's players who don't apply defensive pressure.
"8 midfielders (Cripps, Murphy, Curnow, Dow, SPS, Fisher, Setterfield, Phillips) and a couple in defence and up forward (Simpson, Garlett, Thomas, Gibbons, Cuningham, Fasolo, McKay)" Not planning on playing Walsh?

If you have a quality small forward I would agree you don't need the extra ability to rotate through the middle, but when you have our quality small forwards they really need to be able to rotate through the middle.

"Cripps is probably going to spend 20 minutes outside the center bounce. Hardly worth it bringing a player in to play those 20 minutes." 20 minutes is close to 20% of the game, that is a significant portion. just think how many goals we got kicked on us in the last 5 minutes of the quarter last year.
 

JustaBattler

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I have seen Kennedy fully fit against VFL players in 2019 in the VFL and was not overly impressed. Played good enough to get a game any time the last 5 years but not this year IMO. I have seen nothing to suggest Kennedy can play up forward. His leg speed suggests he can't. No spot for a player like him up there with Curnow, McGovern, McKay and Cripps at times. I don't think we are desperate for clearance players as that aspect looked good in the JLT, if anything we need speed and run.

Does not matter what we pay for a player or where we take them in the draft. What matters is how they play and who happens to be better options.

I think with Cripps in the side it's going to be tough for Kennedy to get a game. Kennedy plays his role but not at his level. Especially with Dow, SPS, Curnow, Setterfield etc all playing that inside role. I don't think he is best 22 at the moment as he has been pushed out by young players who have just a bit more leg speed and mobility which is good as it's a sign our recruiting is going well.

I watched the VFL practice match and while he did some nice things I am very concerned that slow lateral movement and slow legs peed is going to really limit him at AFL level.

Plowman is a decent player, no guarantee he won't be pushed out, with everyone fit I don't have him in my best 22. That doesn't mean he wont play 22 games though. Marchbank will be best 22 when he is fit, very talented player. In a good list the VFL is for backup AFL quality players, not crap players and we are transitioning from one to the other. Our recruiting has been very focused on that.

Silvagni appears to have good lateral movement and he's not as slow, he also seems really good at the defensive and pressure acts which is a huge weakness in Kennedy's game. If you understand footy and watch Silvagni play you will see his positioning at stoppages and his movements when the opposition have the ball are very effective where with Kennedy he seems to go into witches hat mode. Silvagni was quiet in JLT1 but his defensive stuff on the ball was good. I am guessing it was excellent in the VFL. Depends whether you want a player who gets a bit more of it with no pressure or a player who gets less of it with good pressure.

I'm not saying Kennedy wont make it but if we land some big mids at the end of this season he's going to really struggle. Kennedy has a lot to work on IMO, there are things he needs to be seen doing first.

He is in the VFL at the moment for a reason. It would seem that the club selections so far agree with what I have said. Hence no AFL appearances yet. He will get his opportunity, he will just have to prove he's worthy and lift his game a level.

The club rate Polson. I think he needs to play VFL and get better though. Polson has played because we want speed, outside run and a small forward. I think Fasolo and Gibbons will play due to our needs. Hard to say though.

Midfield rotations are fine. 8 midfielders (Cripps, Murphy, Curnow, Dow, SPS, Fisher, Setterfield, Phillips) and a couple in defence and up forward (Simpson, Garlett, Thomas, Gibbons, Cuningham, Fasolo, McKay) who can rotate through there is enough. That is without Polson, Silvagni and Kennedy. These three should be in the VFL IMO.

These guys need to break into that team, we're not gifting players games anymore because we rate them or we know they have ability or they have shown a bit etc they need to perform and break into it.

This is what happens when your list gets better, you start picking on the players who might be decent AFL players but have weaknesses for more complete players. This means guys who are slow, lack mobility, lack skills, lack defensive or offensive aspects to their game start to miss out for more complete players.

Cripps is probably going to spend 20 minutes outside the center bounce. Hardly worth it bringing a player in to play those 20 minutes. It's like playing two rucks. I'd back who we have.

If bolton is bias towards anything it's players who don't apply defensive pressure.
Seriously funny reading - thanks.
JaB
 

Laphroaig

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JLT 1 they both had similar possessions, similar tackles and similar scoring shots.
Similar? If you say so.

But a rational mind might nonetheless wonder why three goals is apparently no more valuable than one goal.

I actually have no preference over which, or neither, of these players nails down a spot in the seniors. You might not realise just how obvious it is that your preference for "Jack" over "Gibbons" influences your interpretation of reality.

And the reality is that Silvagni is a player who could not hold down a position in a wooden spoon side, despite multiple chances. He is required to earn yet another opportunity, not just be promoted over players who have earned their place in the midfield on the basis of one VFL practice match - and because you like him.
 

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Farktherest

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Especially when JSos' tackle count was due to playing in the middle in a game played in poor conditions. Being in the middle always has elevated tackle and pressure counts in wet and scrappy games.

Open it up on a better quality ground against faster and higher quality opponents and put him in the forward line and I have doubts over whether he'd apply half the pressure Polson does. Not denying JSos' improvement or hunger for the contest. Just don't think he fits the team at the expense of a small forward/pressure player.
Well said, exactly this.

Unfortunate for him but we have Charlie, McKay, mcgov, resting Cripps and possibly fas...no room for him up forward for now.
 

Farktherest

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I think you may have.... :)

What I like about Gibbons from what I've observed;
1. Absolute terrier for the ball.
2. Can tackle.
3. Short kicking is OK and can find his targets.

What I am concerned about;
1. Calls for the ball even if in a bad position. This may be understandable early though, given he wants to make an impact.
2. Swears at his team-mates. Noticed this twice and not sure it makes for a particularly endearing trait.
3. Not sure he makes for an exclusively forward 50 player.
4. Awareness didn't excite me, but a small sample.
5. If he is to play in the main team - Where and for who?
Definitely need to find some naturally crafty small forwards... Iirc I think both gibbons and polson grew up playing midfield and we are trying to turn them into small forwards. Cunners as well.
 

HyphensBack

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I like our midfield compared to last year, Walsh and Setterfield are quality ins.

The backline has been hit by injuries but Weitering and Jones are providing stability.

Really thought our forward line would be further progressed. Really pleased with Harry and Cuninghams development BUT disappointed with McGoverns form, and not sure about Ed up forward. Also not impressed with the leading patterns or the repeated bomb to 20m out - sure it can be a tactic but not every entry. Coaches have to figure this out, Murphy needs to lower his eye and forwards need to lead, lead lead even if not rewarded - do it for your fellow forward.

Get Marchbank or Willo back in a few games and we will be a better team.
Round 1 we will have to utilise Plan B going into our forward line or hope Harry, Gov and Charlie hold onto a few more grabs.
 

Macca43

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Similar? If you say so.

But a rational mind might nonetheless wonder why three goals is apparently no more valuable than one goal.

I actually have no preference over which, or neither, of these players nails down a spot in the seniors. You might not realise just how obvious it is that your preference for "Jack" over "Gibbons" influences your interpretation of reality.

And the reality is that Silvagni is a player who could not hold down a position in a wooden spoon side, despite multiple chances. He is required to earn yet another opportunity, not just be promoted over players who have earned their place in the midfield on the basis of one VFL practice match - and because you like him.
Gibbons - 9 possessions, 3 tackles, 3 scoring shots
Jack - 7 possessions, 4 tackles, 2 scoring shots

Can you advise how it is irrational to say those numbers a similar?

"And the reality is that Silvagni is a player who could not hold down a position in a wooden spoon side, despite multiple chances." And Gibbons is a player who couldn't get drafted in 6 attempts - shouldn't he have to earn his opportunity with good form?

It is funny how you think someone can't advocate for Silvagni without it being based on emoition or that they "like" him even though I have presented numerous logical fact based arguments for my preference for him over Gibbons.
 

bmaurizio

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I like our midfield compared to last year, Walsh and Setterfield are quality ins.

The backline has been hit by injuries but Weitering and Jones are providing stability.

Really thought our forward line would be further progressed. Really pleased with Harry and Cuninghams development BUT disappointed with McGoverns form, and not sure about Ed up forward. Also not impressed with the leading patterns or the repeated bomb to 20m out - sure it can be a tactic but not every entry. Coaches have to figure this out, Murphy needs to lower his eye and forwards need to lead, lead lead even if not rewarded - do it for your fellow forward.

Get Marchbank or Willo back in a few games and we will be a better team.
Round 1 we will have to utilise Plan B going into our forward line or hope Harry, Gov and Charlie hold onto a few more grabs.
Forward line will be fine, with the inclusion of Fasolo to Murphy and DC, smalls are set can interchange Garlett for a while too.
Harry, Gov and Charlie will relish the MCG spaces too, new regulations and sensational atmosphere of a 90,000. + Crowd.
We’re a very good show to knock this mob off, Go Baggers
 

JohnnyFontane90

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Gibbons - 9 possessions, 3 tackles, 3 scoring shots
Jack - 7 possessions, 4 tackles, 2 scoring shots

Can you advise how it is irrational to say those numbers a similar?

"And the reality is that Silvagni is a player who could not hold down a position in a wooden spoon side, despite multiple chances." And Gibbons is a player who couldn't get drafted in 6 attempts - shouldn't he have to earn his opportunity with good form?

It is funny how you think someone can't advocate for Silvagni without it being based on emoition or that they "like" him even though I have presented numerous logical fact based arguments for my preference for him over Gibbons.
I think it depends on the position they'll be playing. I'd prefer silvagni as a midfielder but i'd take gibbons as a small forward. that's the exact opposite to what i was expecting to say before JLT.

it's hard to know what to make of JLT1 from gibbons but 3 goals in his first ever hit out against professionals has matched silvagni's 43 game career high. an element of fortune involved but he just looked composed around goal.
 

Laphroaig

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Gibbons - 9 possessions, 3 tackles, 3 scoring shots
Jack - 7 possessions, 4 tackles, 2 scoring shots

Can you advise how it is irrational to say those numbers a similar?

"And the reality is that Silvagni is a player who could not hold down a position in a wooden spoon side, despite multiple chances." And Gibbons is a player who couldn't get drafted in 6 attempts - shouldn't he have to earn his opportunity with good form?

It is funny how you think someone can't advocate for Silvagni without it being based on emoition or that they "like" him even though I have presented numerous logical fact based arguments for my preference for him over Gibbons.
So you continue to maintain that three goals is not better than one. How very odd.

And you're still calling one player by his first name and the other by his surname. Without being biased, apparently.

Wriggle as much as you like. Every player in our JLT midfields gave us cause for optimism. You want to dump one of them on the basis of Silvagni having one good game in the VFL. And on the basis of that one good game in the VFL you argue that Silvagni, on demonstrated form, is ahead of THE BEST player in the VFL for the past two seasons. Week in week out.

Gibbons has earned his shot, and one quiet game as a small forward doesn't change that.
 

kjr8

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"8 midfielders (Cripps, Murphy, Curnow, Dow, SPS, Fisher, Setterfield, Phillips) and a couple in defence and up forward (Simpson, Garlett, Thomas, Gibbons, Cuningham, Fasolo, McKay)" Not planning on playing Walsh?

If you have a quality small forward I would agree you don't need the extra ability to rotate through the middle, but when you have our quality small forwards they really need to be able to rotate through the middle.

"Cripps is probably going to spend 20 minutes outside the center bounce. Hardly worth it bringing a player in to play those 20 minutes." 20 minutes is close to 20% of the game, that is a significant portion. just think how many goals we got kicked on us in the last 5 minutes of the quarter last year.
Like Gibbons?
 
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