AFL Autopsy Rnd 1: Done by the Hawkes

[donlav99]

funnily enough i noticed Parish more in the 3rd (kicked the "stabiliser" didnt he?) than Shiel.....go figure.

3rd qtr

Shiel 2 touches, 1 tackle (exclusively mid)
Parish 5 touches, 2 tackles and a goal (forward)

no wonder you noticed him more

Shiel is a classic downhill skier. Looks a million bucks when the game is on his terms. Parish needs to be the first choice mid (especially when require some clearance work & someone willing to put their head over it)

 

[ant555]

3rd qtr

Shiel 2 touches, 1 tackle (exclusively mid)
Parish 5 touches, 2 tackles and a goal (forward)

no wonder you noticed him more

Shiel is a classic downhill skier. Looks a million bucks when the game is on his terms. Parish needs to be the first choice mid (especially when require some clearance work & someone willing to put their head over it)

For a start you should use the whole game as a reference. Secondly you should be looking at who is lined up on who. In the first 5 center bounce clearances 3 of them went to players Shiel was not on in the set up. The clearance Parish got for the free kick was kicked straight to a Hawks player inside 50. McEvoy got the next clearance. Next clearance to the Hawks from a Caldwell fumble. Next clearance Ceglar. Shiel was blocking Omeara. Next clearance Omeara beat McGrath. Next clearance. Merrett handball turned over. Parish was in for two center bounces. Not totally unusual when goals are kicked in quick succession for players to be out of the rotation for a while.

To say Shiel does not put his head over the ball is wrong. He does. The simple fact is the whole midfield crew where not great. Shiel was responsible for just 1 clearance loss. Caldwell for a couple. Merrett for one. Opposition ruck got a couple. Shiel did not have a great quarter but he was simply not solely responsible for the carnage happening in the middle.

 

[BrunoV]

Posters really need to stop suggesting it was turn overs from the mid field that allowed Hawthorn to move the ball uncontested into their forward line.

Even if the ball is turned over, there’s still 6 of their players playing forward and 6 of our guys playing back.

Turn overs don’t allow 3 or 4 of their guys to run into their forward line without one of our guys within 30 meters of any of them.

Don't you remember the time almost every team had a 100 goal a year player?

If too young have a read of the record books.

All things being equal if the ball comes in with no pressure and to the advantage of the forward there is very little a defender can do.

140 years of AFL is the proof.

 

[Halftimehero]

Just looking at the coaches votes and am quite suprised McGrath’s game wasn’t rated higher by both coaches.

 

[donlav99]

For a start you should use the whole game as a reference. Secondly you should be looking at who is lined up on who. In the first 5 center bounce clearances 3 of them went to players Shiel was not on in the set up. The clearance Parish got for the free kick was kicked straight to a Hawks player inside 50. McEvoy got the next clearance. Next clearance to the Hawks from a Caldwell fumble. Next clearance Ceglar. Shiel was blocking Omeara. Next clearance Omeara beat McGrath. Next clearance. Merrett handball turned over. Parish was in for two center bounces. Not totally unusual when goals are kicked in quick succession for players to be out of the rotation for a while.

To say Shiel does not put his head over the ball is wrong. He does. The simple fact is the whole midfield crew where not great. Shiel was responsible for just 1 clearance loss. Caldwell for a couple. Merrett for one. Opposition ruck got a couple. Shiel did not have a great quarter but he was simply not solely responsible for the carnage happening in the middle.

why would i use the whole game as a reference when i clearly said "he's a downhill skier who looks a million bucks when the game is on our terms?". When the game wasn't on our terms, he went missing. Also, i wouldn't consider his whole game output noteworthy.

 

[owen87]

why would i use the whole game as a reference when i clearly said "he's a downhill skier who looks a million bucks when the game is on our terms?". When the game wasn't on our terms, he went missing. Also, i wouldn't consider his whole game output noteworthy.

So if you ignore the good things he did, and only focus on the bad things he did, and only in the specific ways you want to focus on them, he's a bad player.

Got it.

 

[Lore]

So if you ignore the good things he did, and only focus on the bad things he did, and only in the specific ways you want to focus on them, he's a bad player.

Got it.

Welcome to BigFooty

 

[donlav99]

So if you ignore the good things he did, and only focus on the bad things he did, and only in the specific ways you want to focus on them, he's a bad player.

Got it.

Sorry i have higher expectations for a bloke we pay 900K a year. Did I say bad? I'll have to review my post and double check that. I'm glad you're very pleased with his game though. I hope the coaches aren't as easily impressed as you are.

 

[owen87]

Sorry i have higher expectations for a bloke we pay 900K a year. Did I say bad? I'll have to review my post and double check that. I'm glad you're very pleased with his game though. I hope the coaches aren't as easily impressed as you are.

I hope the coaches aren't as blinkered as you are.

ant55 gave you a very detailed reply. Your response was basically "waaaah". Sorry you didn't get the reaction you wanted.

 

[Lore]

Not that you have to get disposals to play well, but I thought this was interesting in terms of players 'going missing'.

Spoiler: big table

Player	Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	Total
McGrath	9	12	8	4	33
Merrett	13	6	7	5	31
Hind	4	7	7	7	25
Heppell	11	5	4	5	25
Redman	4	8	9	3	24
Caldwell	4	10	6	2	22
Ridley	4	3	3	11	21
Langford	5	8	4	2	19
Parish	5	6	5	2	18
Shiel	5	5	2	5	17
Hooker	1	5	9	2	17
Ham	8	3	4	2	17
Wright	5	7	4	0	16
McDonald-Tipungwuti	4	6	2	4	16
Francis	4	2	3	5	14
Snelling	4	5	2	3	14
Jones	3	5	3	2	13
Smith	3	3	2	4	12
Laverde	4	3	2	3	12
Draper	4	1	2	3	10
Cahill	2	3	1	4	10
Cox	2	3	3	1	9

Data from the AFL app – can't get it on their website.

Meanwhile Hawthorne had 3-4 players who had BIG second halves. So that's where all the disposals went. Like Titchell went 8.5.17.9, for 39 overall. He got more touches in the second half than most of our team got all game. (That also doesn't mean they were all effective touches but there's only one ball, and it was in his hands.)

As a team it's really difficult to impact the scoreboard when you don't have possession, even if you're doing all the little things.

And beyond that I think the podcast guys are right, something happened at half time and our key midfielders were all forward of the contest after that point, waiting for the second or third touch to blaze away. I really don't think Truck told them to position themselves forward of the ball. It's like they fell back on the attacking first mindset of 2019/2020.

That and Hawthorn were reading Draper beautifully. He's only a 9-gamer, coming off a short career in Aussie rules that included an LTI – i.e., he has plenty still to learn – but they had him figured out, so our blokes were out of position and their blokes were standing right under wherever Drapes was gonna put it.

By the time we got to the fourth quarter, it looked like our guys were running in quicksand. They couldn't get to a contest quick enough to affect it, and not for lack of trying. The only bloke to get a decent number of possessions was Ridley, half his touches were in the last quarter – good because that means we were at least intercepting their forward entries in the last quarter, bad because it was even in their forward 50 in the first place.

The other thing, which is more or less symbolic, is every time we go into a marking contest, everyone goes up for the ball. There's no one to crumb.

Off the field you have Rutten vs Clarkson as well. Clarkson is the master. Rutten on the other hand, I'm not sure if he was straight up out-foxed, or if he made a deliberate decision not to bandaid over the issues by moving Hooker to save their bacon. Either way, Clarkson got the chocolates

So altogether, a combination of the young players getting outplayed, the young coach getting outcoached, and the not-so-young leaders getting out-leadered

The good news is, it's all fixable, and in the case of the young players and young coach improvement is actually reasonably likely.

 

[Call Me Cake]

The quickest Lid off/Lid on experience I've ever had

 

[Fridge16]

My strategy for this year. I know it's very "fairweather" but football genuinely affects my mental health so I need a strategy

Don't watch any games live - check scores at completion of game.

If we WIN - Watch full replay on Sunday night and then listen to SEN all week.

If we LOSE - Do not watch replay and listen to ABC radio all week.

If anyone wants any information on the current flood situation just let me know....

 

[doug85]

Not that you have to get disposals to play well, but I thought this was interesting in terms of players 'going missing'.

Spoiler: big table

Player	Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	Total
McGrath	9	12	8	4	33
Merrett	13	6	7	5	31
Hind	4	7	7	7	25
Heppell	11	5	4	5	25
Redman	4	8	9	3	24
Caldwell	4	10	6	2	22
Ridley	4	3	3	11	21
Langford	5	8	4	2	19
Parish	5	6	5	2	18
Shiel	5	5	2	5	17
Hooker	1	5	9	2	17
Ham	8	3	4	2	17
Wright	5	7	4	0	16
McDonald-Tipungwuti	4	6	2	4	16
Francis	4	2	3	5	14
Snelling	4	5	2	3	14
Jones	3	5	3	2	13
Smith	3	3	2	4	12
Laverde	4	3	2	3	12
Draper	4	1	2	3	10
Cahill	2	3	1	4	10
Cox	2	3	3	1	9

Data from the AFL app – can't get it on their website.

Meanwhile Hawthorne had 3-4 players who had BIG second halves. So that's where all the disposals went. Like Titchell went 8.5.17.9, for 39 overall. He got more touches in the second half than most of our team got all game. (That also doesn't mean they were all effective touches but there's only one ball, and it was in his hands.)

As a team it's really difficult to impact the scoreboard when you don't have possession, even if you're doing all the little things.

And beyond that I think the podcast guys are right, something happened at half time and our key midfielders were all forward of the contest after that point, waiting for the second or third touch to blaze away. I really don't think Truck told them to position themselves forward of the ball. It's like they fell back on the attacking first mindset of 2019/2020.

That and Hawthorn were reading Draper beautifully. He's only a 9-gamer, coming off a short career in Aussie rules that included an LTI – i.e., he has plenty still to learn – but they had him figured out, so our blokes were out of position and their blokes were standing right under wherever Drapes was gonna put it.

By the time we got to the fourth quarter, it looked like our guys were running in quicksand. They couldn't get to a contest quick enough to affect it, and not for lack of trying. The only bloke to get a decent number of possessions was Ridley, half his touches were in the last quarter – good because that means we were at least intercepting their forward entries in the last quarter, bad because it was even in their forward 50 in the first place.

The other thing, which is more or less symbolic, is every time we go into a marking contest, everyone goes up for the ball. There's no one to crumb.

Off the field you have Rutten vs Clarkson as well. Clarkson is the master. Rutten on the other hand, I'm not sure if he was straight up out-foxed, or if he made a deliberate decision not to bandaid over the issues by moving Hooker to save their bacon. Either way, Clarkson got the chocolates

So altogether, a combination of the young players getting outplayed, the young coach getting outcoached, and the not-so-young leaders getting out-leadered

The good news is, it's all fixable, and in the case of the young players and young coach improvement is actually reasonably likely.

Interesting.

While I thought Draper was winning the hit outs, he wasn’t directing the ball very well to our mids (imo). Something that might come with more experience/chemistry.

 

[ant555]

why would i use the whole game as a reference when i clearly said "he's a downhill skier who looks a million bucks when the game is on our terms?". When the game wasn't on our terms, he went missing. Also, i wouldn't consider his whole game output noteworthy.

First quarter and fourth quarter comparisons? Game on the line in the last. Games set up in the first. Game not on our terms in either.

I also highlighted some things from the third quarter that where out of his control.
Maybe Parish gets left out of the rotation because every second inside 50 has been a direct turn over and if you look at all his kicks they are virtually never to advantage.

All of our midfielders have flaws and I say your assertion Siel does not put his head over the ball is false.

 

[owen87]

Interesting.

While I thought Draper was winning the hit outs, he wasn’t directing the ball very well to our mids (imo). Something that might come with more experience/chemistry.

Agree here, whether it's Draper not using it well, or the mids not having a good understanding of where he's going to put it, there often seemed to be hitouts that didn't really go to advantage.

Fortunately, Bellchambers was very good at that aspect of ruck work.

 

[coastalpipeline]

And Joey wasn't here to drag our butts over the line and cost us a better midfielder ......and quietly in my home, at half time there was talk about the baby bombers and how the stole they 93 flag.

I was @ work & 6 minutes away half time to call the misses tell her how brilliantly we were doing, then I came back to check on the scores....

 

[ScrappyCoCo]

I was @ work & 6 minutes away half time to call the misses tell her how brilliantly we were doing, then I came back to check on the scores....

My kid had a basketball game and got back just before halftime. He got to see about 5 minutes of good play